Should We Separate The Work From The Man? | Page 3 | Vital Football

Should We Separate The Work From The Man?

This is a really interesting topic.

I guess very few great people in history have clean records; Genghis Khan has seen his story twisted into some great leader. Churchill sent the black and tans into Ireland and like almost every leader in the west at time was an unrepentant racist. Dan Carlins most recent Hardcore History podcast shows how insanely racist they were, racist to their detriment especially with regard to the Japanese. The British and Americans held them is such contempt it burned them numerous times in the war because they didn't think they could be as intelligent as the white man.

Back to MJ, my GF put the documentary on the other day and I guess I have willfully ignored the truth for a many number of years. I have MJ songs on my spotify and something that isnt so cute anymore is her finishing the sentence 'do you remember the time'. Roman Polanski is another one, Hollywood and that community is willing to embrace his art and ignore the clear horrors he committed/intended to commit.

We live in strange times.
 
American attitudes were certainly skewed WW 2. Japanese Americans were interned in huge numbers as possible threats but Italian and German Americans weren't.
I don't suppose we could hold the moral high ground as our treatment of Asian allies was less than even handed. Different times perhaps although it seems strange that Ghurkas serving in the British army have Nepalese n.c.o.s but are commanded largely by British officers.
Drifted off point a bit there, sorry.
 
ASPINALL said:
I don`t believe any of that last night personally - it all looked an act for pure greed.
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Why don't you believe it? If you have not been a survivor of abuse of any form then you can't understand what it is like for them.

An abused person be it sexual, physical emotional etc will always try to hide it.

Sexual can is usually repressed in some form. There was nothing greedy about them.

The thing is people don't want this stuff to be true. There Is no way on God's green earth that they are going to subject themselves to the backlash they are getting from crazy Jacko fans as they knew they would if they weren't telling the truth.

They were children. You don't tell a child you disbelieve them. Yes they are grown men now however they weren't men lying.

I am a survivor of all of the above including sexual as a child ftom a family member not much older than me. That's how I have the insight

Yes I am open about it today. If me being open helps someone open up, then that's what this is about. I wasn't once open . It took me until I was 38 to finally open up when I had a nervous breakdown 're the childhood stuff

It's odd though how no one ever has said people were lieing about Saville or Glitter yet people are willing to believe and defend Jackson
 
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I just don’t believe them, especially Wade Robson.

The whole thing seems an act - just my opinion.

Glitter and Saville after investigations have been found guilty so that may be slightly different.

I am no fan of Jackson but unless I’m mistaken nothing has been proven after years and years of investigations.

Surely something would have been found by now but again I am no expert.
 
Whatever the truth of the abuse, the parents should be charged with neglect and facilitating child abuse, not making documentaries.

It appears that some people are willing to put their children at risk for the opportunity of becoming rich and famous. They showed little emotion, given what they had allegedly allowed to happen to their children.

A shocking indictment of modern parenting, greed and the culture of celebrity entitlement. A grown man, spending time with and obsessing over a string of preteen children is plain wrong, let alone the likelihood of the sexual abuse.

Still made some excellent music, despite being one weird and damaged human being. Fame and fortune clearly didn't make him a happy and well balanced member of society. Are we really surprised?

Ultimately, why did somebody not stop him and try to help both him and the children? Money and power corrupt.
 
I agree the parents do have a part to play in this: I would not have let mine stay in his bedroom.

However who am I to judge as I went through a period of drinking way too much which didn't help my children well being.

There are people and services who would say ''understandable'' circumstances which are common in my/our situation, That maybe true. I still know I am responsible. I have been able to put right that damage my part played as I am blessed to say and have stable happy adult youngsters with good lives

We don't know all behind the scenes. If you seen the second part the mom's were very remorseful and tearful. I hope they have been able to make living amends to those now adult children.

I think the 2nd part was more telling than the 1st part. As for why it hasn't been discovered for definite, lets face it, we are talking of a man with alot of power and money who can bribe and buy silence
 
I like listening to Jordan Peterson. He always has fascinating things to say across a range of topics.

Because I like him, Google often gives me articles about him in my news feed. Unfortunately, a lot of them seem to be opinion pieces about him or stuff on his personal life. I've absolutely no interest in his personal life.

Is there anyone whose work you like but you have no interest in their personal life?
 
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The Fear said:
Pretty much every actor I like, every band member etc etc.
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It's funny that the hype around how wild bands were used to be a big part of their image (Motley Crew, etc). Nowadays, I don't think people care that much. Maybe teenagers care about rappers?
 
northamptonvillan said:
As a lad growing up, I fucking loved Gary Glitter's songs, I didn't idolise the man but admired his music. The music is inextricably linked in a positive way to my past and my memories of it. On occasion, I enjoy listening to those tunes.

Paul Gadd, the pedophile does not benefit in any way. The same will be true of Michael Jackson and any other artist. The work and the person are two separate entities.
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I feel sorry for his co-writer Mike Leander, he wrote many songs over the years and the biggest sellers were with Gary Glitter as cowriter.

https://secondhandsongs.com/artist/3777/works
 
oh, well, if he's been found guilty by those on twitter, then he must be surely!? It seems to be the worlds moral compass these days.

It's a shame that place was ever invented.
 
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