Should we get Callum Lang back? | Page 2 | Vital Football

Should we get Callum Lang back?

TRUE BELIEVER said:
For goodness sake stop crying about the players signed in the summer, get it into your heads once and for all that that is all we could afford. When there is no money in the pot you cant shop at Harrods. We could only afford bargain basement buys, some work others don't, Cook had to buy what we could afford and that wasn't much. Get over it and move on.
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That's not true. We actually spent a fair deal in the summer, about 3 1/2 to 4 million and an agreement to spend even more on evans. Sadly it wasn't money well spent given what we've seen so far. In addition to offering new contracts Royles first task should be overhauling every aspect of how we recruit.
 
Made in Wigan said:
That's not true. We actually spent a fair deal in the summer, about 3 1/2 to 4 million and an agreement to spend even more on evans. Sadly it wasn't money well spent given what we've seen so far. In addition to offering new contracts Royles first task should be overhauling every aspect of how we recruit.
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Ahreed. Recruitment has been a long running issue for us. Clubs like Peterborough and Brentford continually find gems for peanuts and sell them on at huge profits.

It's easier said than done but if your scouting network is good enough you don't need to spend fortunes every year on fees. We need to try and rebuild our whole recruitment structure as what we currently have in place is horribly ineffective.
 
Perhaps our recruitment is good. But the fact we don't give our managers the time for their buys to settle before we sack them isn't helping.
So therefore every new manager wants to bring in new players and previous signing are moved on without the chance to prove themselves.

We as fans moan about our turnover of players but still moan about poor signings before they've had a chance to settle.

Maybe if we're patient we could build a team of our own players good enough to get us promoted to the Premier League.
But this could take 5 or 6 years and we all know we're not patient enough to wait that long. We'll be moaning about untried players or buying lemons and duds.

We talk about other clubs having successful recruitment policies but their managers are given time to build squads up. For the last 10 seasons we've been fighting relegation or trying to get promoted so haven't dared play untried players.
How many of these clubs have had Latics unique last decade?
 
Yon Mon said:
Perhaps our recruitment is good. But the fact we don't give our managers the time for their buys to settle before we sack them isn't helping.
So therefore every new manager wants to bring in new players and previous signing are moved on without the chance to prove themselves.

We as fans moan about our turnover of players but still moan about poor signings before they've had a chance to settle.

Maybe if we're patient we could build a team of our own players good enough to get us promoted to the Premier League.
But this could take 5 or 6 years and we all know we're not patient enough to wait that long. We'll be moaning about untried players or buying lemons a nd duds.

We talk about other clubs having successful recruitment policies but their managers are given time to build squads up. For the last 10 seasons we've been fighting relegation or trying to get promoted so haven't dared play untried players.
How many of these clubs have had Latics unique last decade?
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Exactly, but the Wigan fanbase is not exactly a patient one. And regarding criticisms of our player recruitment, for every 'bad' signing we've made under Cook, we've made at least 1 or 2 good ones - but it's easier for some to point out the bad than herald the good..
 
So who are the good ones? Walton(loan) James(loan) Robinson(loan)possibly Elder(loan) possibly, Evans, Kipre (borderline)
Poor ones Cole,Walker,Vaughan,Windass,Garner,Naismith,Gibson,Connolly(loan)Macca(if he doesnt play him) Lopes. Toney, Thomas, Hunt,
There you go, pretty easy to point out the good ones and they dont outnumber the poor ones 2 to 1.
 
Yon Mon said:
Perhaps our recruitment is good. But the fact we don't give our managers the time for their buys to settle before we sack them isn't helping.
So therefore every new manager wants to bring in new players and previous signing are moved on without the chance to prove themselves.

We as fans moan about our turnover of players but still moan about poor signings before they've had a chance to settle.

Maybe if we're patient we could build a team of our own players good enough to get us promoted to the Premier League.
But this could take 5 or 6 years and we all know we're not patient enough to wait that long. We'll be moaning about untried players or buying lemons and duds.

We talk about other clubs having successful recruitment policies but their managers are given time to build squads up. For the last 10 seasons we've been fighting relegation or trying to get promoted so haven't dared play untried players.
How many of these clubs have had Latics unique last decade?
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A lot of signings were just bad rather than needing time. The biggest issue is the amount of players we signed and then the manager who signed them didn't use them much if at all.

There was a thread recently listing all the signings we've made since relegation and every manager had their fair share of shockers. There must be some inherant issue with our scouting to allow us to sign so many duds.
 
This is purely a matter of opinion Jeff. Some of the ones you class as poor signings are in the opinion of others decent or reasonable punts. Cole and Walker were both decent punts in my opinion and were probably brought in to give depth to the squad in league one. Windass could still prove to be a decent player if he is played in the position he was brought in to play and gets some service from players around him. Gibson is a squad player in my opinion and has shown earlier in the season he can do the job, although his recent performances have not been up to standard, however there are not many that were in the recent games. Lopes is one for the future and always has been, he is very highly rated by many other football pundits. Connolly had a good spell with us on loan the first time and Toney was removed by his parent team due to him not being utilised as they wanted. Hunt was a decent squad player and so is Vaughan, granted they are not likely to play every game and are not top quality strikers but if they were they would not be playing second fiddle at Wigan they would be first picks at other clubs.

The problem on this forum is that players are judged harshly on one poor performance and not what they bring to the squad over a season. Paul Cook has to put a squad together to cover a full season, players form and injuries need to be covered and therefore we need squad players. If we signed 20 or so players who were all of the same standard then many of them would be unhappy at having to sit on the sidelines and would be pushing for a move. There is also the point that some players would not want to come to a club were they felt there was not much chance of playing, hence the club sign squad players who know they may not get much playing time but are happy to fight for a place in the first team squad and fill in when required. There is also squad morale to consider and disgruntled players cause problems within the dressing room.

All in all it is a matter of opinions, you have your opinion, I have mine and the only one that is relevant in this instance is Paul Cooks as he is the guy tasked with the responsibility of picking a team to represent Wigan Athletic every weekend.
 
Made in Wigan said:
That's not true. We actually spent a fair deal in the summer, about 3 1/2 to 4 million and an agreement to spend even more on evans. Sadly it wasn't money well spent given what we've seen so far. In addition to offering new contracts Royles first task should be overhauling every aspect of how we recruit.
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In your opinion it wasn't well spent. Perhaps Paul Cook has a different opinion.

I don't have the figures to back this up, and perhaps someone could enlighten me on this, but I would suspect that we were amongst the lowest in the league on transfer spending in the last window.
 
Maybe play our attack minded players ie McManaman and maybe the 2 strikers mentioned might get chances. Just a thought
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
In your opinion it wasn't well spent. Perhaps Paul Cook has a different opinion.

I don't have the figures to back this up, and perhaps someone could enlighten me on this, but I would suspect that we were amongst the lowest in the league on transfer spending in the last window.
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In my opinion it wasn't, but your point was we could only afford bargain basement purchases when that isn't actually the case. Windass was 2.5 if reports are to be believed, close to a mill for Lopes, same for Kipre, unsure on Garner and whatever we've agreed to pay for Evans.
 
Made in Wigan said:
In my opinion it wasn't, but your point was we could only afford bargain basement purchases when that isn't actually the case. Windass was 2.5 if reports are to be believed, close to a mill for Lopes, same for Kipre, unsure on Garner and whatever we've agreed to pay for Evans.
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I still believe that they are bargain basement purchases when compared with the rest of the teams in the division. For instance it is reported to be costing Blackburn £6 million for Ben Brereton and Bolton have reportedly agreed a seven figure sum for Christian Doidge from Forest Green. The 2.5 for Windass is small change compared to the figure for Brereton and the fee for Lopes coming from a club with experience at league one and Portugal under 20's level seems cheap when compared to a player coming from league 2 with no experience above that level. Stoke have forked out something like £34 million on players in the summer ten times what we have spent which I feel goes to prove my bargain basement point.
 
The signing of Lopes still baffles me today. Peterborough fans thought they’d hit the jackpot and I don’t blame them.
 
C_Latic said:
The signing of Lopes still baffles me today. Peterborough fans thought they’d hit the jackpot and I don’t blame them.
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He's younger than Lang but already played at a higher level and played more professional games, clearly one for the future, bit surprised we didn't loan him straight back out to peterborough until January.

Just hope we don't do a repeat of Fyvie, Dicko, Hendry and in a way Kellett and just forget about them.
 
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jeffs right said:
So who are the good ones? Walton(loan) James(loan) Robinson(loan)possibly Elder(loan) possibly, Evans, Kipre (borderline)
Poor ones Cole,Walker,Vaughan,Windass,Garner,Naismith,Gibson,Connolly(loan)Macca(if he doesnt play him) Lopes. Toney, Thomas, Hunt,
There you go, pretty easy to point out the good ones and they dont outnumber the poor ones 2 to 1.
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Really not sure how you can label players poor signings that have either only played a handful of games or not been given a chance yet. No wonder Paul Cook bemoans the instant gratification mindset of football fans these days.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
I still believe that they are bargain basement purchases when compared with the rest of the teams in the division. For instance it is reported to be costing Blackburn £6 million for Ben Brereton and Bolton have reportedly agreed a seven figure sum for Christian Doidge from Forest Green. The 2.5 for Windass is small change compared to the figure for Brereton and the fee for Lopes coming from a club with experience at league one and Portugal under 20's level seems cheap when compared to a player coming from league 2 with no experience above that level. Stoke have forked out something like £34 million on players in the summer ten times what we have spent which I feel goes to prove my bargain basement point.
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I'm not suggesting we paid out the most, but given the expenditure they can't be classed as bargain basement buys. Personally I just don't think we used what funds we did have wisely. It's clearly been a weak area for us and something the new ownership group can improve upon to see incremental gains.
 
Lang is doing well in his development at Oldham. Joe Gelhardt is nowhere near ready to play at the moment, but probably isn't too far away. I'd have loaned, out Lang until January, seen what he could do.

Lopes is a good player, however he's played so many different roles in his short career it's difficult to tell where he'd be best. I'd stick him on the right hand side and see what he does there, if he was to play, perhaps coming on for Callum McManaman after an hour or so.

Our recent history is littered with decent players who simply didn't get enough game time. That needs to change going forwards to fit into the business model proposed by the new ownership.
 
jeffs right said:
Mike Newell, Warren Aspinall and David Lowe were all 19 and in the first team at the same time so maybe a return to this strategy rather than journeymen would be a good idea.
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Warren Aspinall didn't really feature until we sold Mike Newell, and it was in a lower division, back when standards weren't as high. I get the cut of your jib though.
 
I think the point most are trying to make is, ....Why send a teenage striker out on loan then waste a million quid on another teenager who is damn lucky to make the bench now and again?

In anyone's book that is poor business on our part.
 
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