Should sabz stay | Page 17 | Vital Football

Should sabz stay

Should sabz stay

  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
Pope John XXIII said:
1) you spin the last 20 results in a positive way?

How?
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I'm not trying to spin the last 20 results. They have been very bad. We're on a very bad run of form, but like i said, that is not a good reason to sack a manager. People have just been tricked into thinking it is.
What I was saying, is that we shouldn't forget about the results before that.

2) can you tell me, with evidence, what the style of play SL is trying to implement looks like?
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I'll tell you in a few weeks. The last couple of games have been chaotic in a bad way.

3) you say we don't need to improve the attack and effectively that we don't need to improve the defence. In other words, you don't think we need to improve on last season at all.

But we failed out objective last season....
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No, I said we have a better team, so if Lamouchi can get them doing what we were doing last season, minus the horrific collapse at the end, we should do ok.
 
i am a tree said:
I'm not trying to spin the last 20 results. They have been very bad. We're on a very bad run of form, but like i said, that is not a good reason to sack a manager. People have just been tricked into thinking it is.
What I was saying, is that we shouldn't forget about the results before that.


I'll tell you in a few weeks. The last couple of games have been chaotic in a bad way.


No, I said we have a better team, so if Lamouchi can get them doing what we were doing last season, minus the horrific collapse at the end, we should do ok.
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Half a season of bad results isn’t reason to make a change? I would have to ask in that case, what is? Do we need to be relegated first?
 
Basha73 said:
Half a season of bad results isn’t reason to make a change? I would have to ask in that case, what is? Do we need to be relegated first?
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At least being in danger of a relegation battle would probably be a requirement, yeah.
A few games into the season no-one who works for Forest or frequents this forum has any idea how our season is going to pan out because we have a whole new team.
 
i am a tree said:
A bad run is not a reason to sack the manager.
It never was.
Football journos just want an excuse to say that every game is super important, and you lot fall for it every time, with the consequences that our club has spent the last decade destroying anything good that our name meant by sacking manager after manager after manager because you people demand it every time we have a bad run.
Its fucking pathetic how people can't see beyond today.
Have some patience for once.
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Of course a bad run is a reason to sack a manager lol are you high? It shouldn't be the only reason but it absolutely should be part of the equation.

Our record over the last 23 competitive games (so half a season) is won 5, drew 7, lost 11. That is relegation form.

I always call for patience bar MON and I would here if we could see a coherent plan moving forward. If we were playing well in games and just not getting results.

The reality is we've either been dicked on or struggled to create anything meaningful.

We've scored less than a goal a game in our last 23, just 17 goals in fact. Again relegation form.

For me what's most concerning is that we've lost what made us so difficult to play against in the first place. There is no defensive solidity - our last clean sheet was 12 games ago, and there is little sign another is around the corner. Again relegation form.

I don't believe if SL stays we'd go down but whoopty fucking do if we manage to struggle into midtable. That's still an abject failure, but again I could probably suck that up if I could see a clear vision, a clear philosophy.

The reality is there isn't one, instead I'll be left watching more fucking shite boring football without even success to compensate.
 
Sanchez flores said:
This is far worse than a bad run its half a season! This is not a bad run, it has gone well past that!
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The problem is this exact argument happens every time. Every time 'its different this time its much worse than usual so we have to sack the manager again.'

Lamouchi has shown he can do well. Its going badly at the moment, but imo its looking up given the players we have signed very recently.

You don't magically lose skills. Lamouchi has shown us he can organize a team to be difficult to beat, and I don't think he has 'lost' that because that doesn't happen. If he has lost the players, that is a reason for him to go, but most of our players are new so he would have been going some to lose the dressing room already.

Leave him in place, this will turn around.

edit: Also has anyone thought about what happens if we sack Lamouchi and then our new manager wants to sign some players in January or next Summer?
 
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i am a tree said:
At least being in danger of a relegation battle would probably be a requirement, yeah.
A few games into the season no-one who works for Forest or frequents this forum has any idea how our season is going to pan out because we have a whole new team.
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We are in the relegation zone and in relegation form for half a season. We have a pretty good idea which way things are going.

I can accept that it is early days and this season could be turned around but while I can understand your point you have to accept there’s more than enough evidence to suggest a change is needed.
 
i am a tree said:
The problem is this exact argument happens every time. Every time 'its different this time its much worse than usual so we have to sack the manager again.'

Lamouchi has shown he can do well. Its going badly at the moment, but imo its looking up given the players we have signed very recently.

You don't magically lose skills. Lamouchi has shown us he can organize a team to be difficult to beat, and I don't think he has 'lost' that because that doesn't happen. If he has lost the players, that is a reason for him to go, but most of our players are new so he would have been going some to lose the dressing room already.

Leave him in place, this will turn around.

edit: Also has anyone thought about what happens if we sack Lamouchi and then our new manager wants to sign some players in January or next Summer?
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I tell you one thing if he stays our recruitment will be in league one with a wage cap....
 
Sanchez flores said:
The last 23 games says it will. You cannot hide from the facts mate.
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Speculation about what will or will not happen isn't 'the facts'.

If you want to look at the past, how about looking at the last ten years and see where failing to give managers time to turn things around has gotten us.

Or is 23 games as far back as you're willing to look?
 
i am a tree said:
Still no-one has told me when we last allowed a manager to recover from a bad run.
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I mean right now, he's 23 fucking games into a bad run. How long exactly do you have in mind?

In isolation you're absolutely correct if it was 5 or 10 or so but 23 is a long time. Maybe put together a coherent argument as to what staying with SL will bring us! What have you seen while we've been outplayed in every game for months to make you believe we are suddenly going to go on an amazing run that propels us up the table.

You're just being a contrarian with absolutely nothing of substance behind your nonsense.
 
i am a tree said:
Speculation about what will or will not happen isn't 'the facts'.

If you want to look at the past, how about looking at the last ten years and see where failing to give managers time to turn things around has gotten us.

Or is 23 games as far back as you're willing to look?
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Tell me any club in the country that allows that kind of run go on? 3 points from the last 33? Look deeper 16 from the last 60. My days.
 
As for hasn't magically lost the ability to make us hard to beat, newsflash we are fucking losing all the time, we are easy to beat. When was our last clean sheet?
 
He has a lot of new players and deserves the time to find the solution.

Whilst it's still been poor, every consecutive game has seen an improvement so the trajectory in terms of performance is there.

If it were the opposite way around with these results, then I wouldn't hesitate to say get rid.
 
I can't be arsed to stay here and argue it to be honest. As a fanbase we deserve whatever shit we get next. Years of not being able to see beyond current form has left us in a situation where no self respecting manager of note would ever come here.
Maybe pearson does want to come here. By the way, Pearson, you won't be able to have the players you want because we just bought a whole team. You have 2 games to get them playing well together. Good luck!
 
i am a tree said:
I'm not trying to spin the last 20 results. They have been very bad. We're on a very bad run of form, but like i said, that is not a good reason to sack a manager. People have just been tricked into thinking it is.
What I was saying, is that we shouldn't forget about the results before that.
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Ok, so when should you sack a manager then?

Hiring a new manager, especially a relatively unproven one, is a process of discovery for all parties.

It's not just about results, but whether he is the right man and capable of taking you where you want to go. Sometimes it becomes clear he isn't fairly quickly. Sometimes it becomes clear after a bit longer. Where we are disagreeing is that I and many others believe it has become clear since Christmas. You do not. I cannot really understand why this isn't clear to you, I will admit that. I think you are clinging on for ideological rather than evidential reasons.

Contrary to the beliefs of the moralistic "never sack a manager" brigade, not all managers are equally good, nor are all of them capable of doing well if just given the time.

Case in point, Lee Johnson at Bristol. He was appointed to steer Bristol to the PL. I remember not long ago they went on a good run and everyone was pointing to him as what happens when a club shows patience with a manager.

But in (I think) more than four years, how many times did Bristol get into the playoffs? How many times did they even get really close? Eventually, it was clear he wasn't going to get them where they wanted to go.

The onus then is on picking someone better. What happens to Bristol next will not be a result of sacking Johnson, but the quality of who they appoint to succeed him.

We have reached this point with Lamouchi in 14 months IMO

i am a tree said:
I'll tell you in a few weeks. The last couple of games have been chaotic in a bad way.
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5 straight defeats this season. How many defeats becomes unacceptable to you? What if he loses at Blackburn? We then have Rotherham and Derby at home. I can see 1 or 3 points against Rotherham and a defeat to Derby.

So let's imagine 1 point from the first 7 league fixtures. What then?

i am a tree said:
No, I said we have a better team, so if Lamouchi can get them doing what we were doing last season, minus the horrific collapse at the end, we should do ok.
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He could have got them doing what they did last season from day one, but he hasnt. I don't even know what he is trying to get them to do. Can you discern it?
 
ZedRed said:
He has a lot of new players and deserves the time to find the solution.

Whilst it's still been poor, every consecutive game has seen an improvement so the trajectory in terms of performance is there.

If it were the opposite way around with these results, then I wouldn't hesitate to say get rid.
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Why does he deserve time?

What has he done to deserve playing dice with our championship status?

What on earth makes him worth that?

It would be one thing if he has got us until the playoffs for the first time in a decade. But he didn't

Why does he deserve time?
 
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