BlackGold
Vital 1st Team Regular
Not according to the NEP. Saying that, your complete guesswork is probably similar to Clapson's, lol.
Should sabz stay
- Thread starter radfordinlondon
- Start date
Not according to the NEP. Saying that, your complete guesswork is probably similar to Clapson's, lol.
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
Come on Pope, LK did stress in capital letters that this was just his opinion, what more do you want.
weejockmcplop
Vital Champions League
A bad run is not a reason to sack the manager.
It never was.
Football journos just want an excuse to say that every game is super important, and you lot fall for it every time, with the consequences that our club has spent the last decade destroying anything good that our name meant by sacking manager after manager after manager because you people demand it every time we have a bad run.
Its fucking pathetic how people can't see beyond today.
Have some patience for once.
It never was.
Football journos just want an excuse to say that every game is super important, and you lot fall for it every time, with the consequences that our club has spent the last decade destroying anything good that our name meant by sacking manager after manager after manager because you people demand it every time we have a bad run.
Its fucking pathetic how people can't see beyond today.
Have some patience for once.
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
Absolute critical failure of football and style is though, as is incompetence
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
Is his opinion not to be challenged then?
Bremen Tree
Vital 1st Team Regular
Not 5 games in, maybe January.
Get a grip. It's just a game and there's far more important things in life.
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
Possibly not in the manner you're employing.
weejockmcplop
Vital Champions League
What's the difference?
Things always look bad when you are on a bad run. Things turn around. That's the way of it.
Sack Lamouchi now, and we will probably rebound. But then next time we go on a bad run someone will talk the same nonsense about 'total failure' and then demand a sacking.
Surely you can't say you haven't seen this pattern play out over the last 10 years!
A question for all you guys with good memories for football.
When was the last time we allowed a manager to recover from a bad run?
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Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
No, I can't say I can recall the last time we lost 7 on the trot.
As I've said a few times, and consistently over the years (as some will remember he saying when Pearce was manager), what we need to see is a definate style of play. You really are in trouble if you don't have that, preferably one that works.
We had one last year. Potentially it wasn't a way we could continue to win in the long term, we need to adapt.
So what are we adapting to?
If losing 7 in a row is the price we have to pay to move to a different, but potentially more successful style long term then that's one thing. Nothing is worth being threatened with relegation, but it is at least something.
What style are we adapting to? I cannot discern one and I haven't seen anyone on here who has been able to confidently pick out what the hell Lamouchi is even trying to do right now. There is no philosophy any more, strategy. No sense of playing to any individual or team strengths. It feels like just a bunch of blokes with some talent sent out in any random arrangement in the hope that something positive will happen; and it isn't.
And when you say, haven't you seen this before, yes I have; I have seen it in 04-05, 11-12, 16-17. I have seen it in countless big teams who have been relegated. Every one of them had fans bleating that the manager needed time, form was just around the corner, etc.
So if you want to change my mind, you need to convince me of what Lamouchi is actually trying to do and where this turnaround will come from. That's difficult because I honestly don't think he knows himself.
You also have to factor in that we are in one of those rare times when there genuinely are some very good candidates available and without a club right now. That isn't always the case.
the jock
Vital Football Legend
This is going on much longer than just the start of this season . We are on a complete downward spiral with no end in sight .
No wins in 11 games is Criminal . Most teams were back a week before us in preseason yet he was complaining not enough time...why didn't we go back earlier. They brought in all the staff and gave him loads of players. There can be no excuses here at all. Its dire to watch..
We have 7 games coming within a 3 week period.
First up blackburn...they thrashed derby 4-0 and wycombe 5-0 already . They will be licking their lips
No wins in 11 games is Criminal . Most teams were back a week before us in preseason yet he was complaining not enough time...why didn't we go back earlier. They brought in all the staff and gave him loads of players. There can be no excuses here at all. Its dire to watch..
We have 7 games coming within a 3 week period.
First up blackburn...they thrashed derby 4-0 and wycombe 5-0 already . They will be licking their lips
weejockmcplop
Vital Champions League
You say a different, more successful long term.
I don't see how we could possibly have that.
What you are gambling on is a manager that gets up first try without losing a few games in a row.
Every time we lose some games the search for a new manager starts.
We now have a manager that got us our best league position in years, who has a whole new team to gel together. Let him at least try. There was even hints at some attacking football yesterday, after a bad start.
Honestly if the next manager can't achieve the playoffs, or at least 7th, this year then we have changed manager for a worse outcome. Who's going to accept that?
If we finish 10th this year will you be calling for the next manager's head next Summer? Of course you will.
If a 7th place finish, given where we were the season before, is not enough for you, nothing will be except undefeated promotion first time. Lamouchi has shown he can perform in the Championship, he showed it last year, and he has a whole new team. Give him time.
I'm not going to be coy here, I blame this exact attitude for the situation Forest are in, for us being a team that no good, respected UK manager would touch with a barge pole.
Managers talk to each other you know. MON knows alot of people in the game, for example. You think anyone who's managed us in the last 10 years would say this is a good club to manage? Would they fuck. The toxic negativity, impatience, and expectation that we should be a Champions League club from the fans makes Forest poison for managers.
Chivalry Augustus
Vital Reserves Team
I don’t really understand the argument of giving a manager time when he’s been in the job for nearly a year and a half.
We finished 9th before he arrived, and delivered a huge improvement of ... 2 whole places in the league. The problem being that the football was terrible, and our season was littered with humiliating defeats; 0-4 to Sheffield Weds, 0-3 to Millwall and the ultimate humiliation, 1-4 to Stoke. We were a laughing stock despite that gain of two whole positions. Yet we mostly stuck by him, expecting a bit of evolution and a bit more mental fortitude.
What we have delivered is car crash football, suggestive not of mere decline, but of severe PTSD that we are finding impossible to shake. The manager is the worst example of this - his solution to the problems is to keep on trying the same things that caused the problems in the first place. We still don’t pass the ball as well as any single team that we encounter, our tempo is slow, and our block is too low for us to counter. We don’t counter at pace, nor are we clinical enough to compensate for that shortcoming.
The manager has no settled XI, he keeps swapping players left, right and centre, but performances are the same. It should be obvious to him that it’s tactical, that’s why every game plays the same regardless of personnel. Those who are pointing to an “improvement” yesterday need only recognise the pattern, we were 0-2 down in the first half against Cardiff, the same against Bristol City. Going for it after having lost the game isn’t improvement, it’s desperation. And you can’t get worse than losing a game inside half an hour.
Our matches follow this pattern because we always surrender the initiative, no matter who the opposition. You can’t play with everyone behind the ball all of the time and expect them not to eventually expose your weaknesses. There has been no better example of this than our efforts against Barnsley, who have beaten us twice in short order. They wasted numerous chances in both games, but the sheer inevitability of their victory was caused by our performance in refusing to change and give them something to think about defensively. We consistently lose to these teams because they are poor defensively, but we give them nothing to defend.
I like Lamouchi, I still don’t think he has done a bad job. But he’s been here a while now and hasn’t imposed any kind of attacking style on the team. I don’t believe he is capable of ever doing so. Our current attacking method is hope. It used to be that our defensive method was organisation and resilience. Sadly, it too has become hope. Personally, I hope Lamouchi is gone by the end of tomorrow.
We finished 9th before he arrived, and delivered a huge improvement of ... 2 whole places in the league. The problem being that the football was terrible, and our season was littered with humiliating defeats; 0-4 to Sheffield Weds, 0-3 to Millwall and the ultimate humiliation, 1-4 to Stoke. We were a laughing stock despite that gain of two whole positions. Yet we mostly stuck by him, expecting a bit of evolution and a bit more mental fortitude.
What we have delivered is car crash football, suggestive not of mere decline, but of severe PTSD that we are finding impossible to shake. The manager is the worst example of this - his solution to the problems is to keep on trying the same things that caused the problems in the first place. We still don’t pass the ball as well as any single team that we encounter, our tempo is slow, and our block is too low for us to counter. We don’t counter at pace, nor are we clinical enough to compensate for that shortcoming.
The manager has no settled XI, he keeps swapping players left, right and centre, but performances are the same. It should be obvious to him that it’s tactical, that’s why every game plays the same regardless of personnel. Those who are pointing to an “improvement” yesterday need only recognise the pattern, we were 0-2 down in the first half against Cardiff, the same against Bristol City. Going for it after having lost the game isn’t improvement, it’s desperation. And you can’t get worse than losing a game inside half an hour.
Our matches follow this pattern because we always surrender the initiative, no matter who the opposition. You can’t play with everyone behind the ball all of the time and expect them not to eventually expose your weaknesses. There has been no better example of this than our efforts against Barnsley, who have beaten us twice in short order. They wasted numerous chances in both games, but the sheer inevitability of their victory was caused by our performance in refusing to change and give them something to think about defensively. We consistently lose to these teams because they are poor defensively, but we give them nothing to defend.
I like Lamouchi, I still don’t think he has done a bad job. But he’s been here a while now and hasn’t imposed any kind of attacking style on the team. I don’t believe he is capable of ever doing so. Our current attacking method is hope. It used to be that our defensive method was organisation and resilience. Sadly, it too has become hope. Personally, I hope Lamouchi is gone by the end of tomorrow.
flipleflem
Vital Reserves Team
The trouble is every game we lose makes the hole that Sabri finds himself in, that bit deeper, and that bit harder to dig himself out of.
seasider red
Vital 1st Team Regular
Agree with pretty much all of the above I have said for ages that the tempo of play is too slow, there is a chronic lack of movement, but what really annoys me is the constant starting of games on the back foot and handing the initiative to inferior opponents
weejockmcplop
Vital Champions League
I don't know if it does.
The fact that he has a whole new team isn't just an excuse, they actually do need a little bit more time than this to learn to play together.
Sure, if he keeps losing with no sign of a turnaround, we can safely say its not going to work, but we're right at the beginning of the season here and giving him some more games to get this team playing together is just the most basic level of common sense imo.
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
There was clearly more to the MON thing than just results.
But while I respect the points you are making to a degree, I don't agree in this case.
For a start, had SL not lost all five of his competitive games this season we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If we had made a fight of them it might be a different conversation. But we didnt; we made a fight of one of them, when we were already two goals down at home.
Had we had even a degree of footballing competence this season so far, we would all be happy to let this manager who finished 7th have another go at it.
But there are several reasons why people aren't, and fickleness or impatience aren't among them
1) the deep concerns about the jettisoning of any discernable strategy or style of play, as outlined in my last post
2) the alarming long term drop in form stretching back to the Charlton defeat in February; we won three more games all season, amounting to 3 wins in 20 games. That is relegation form over a long period of time. Were it repeated across just one regular season, the team in question would be extremely fortunate to avoid a late escape scenario. Sorry, Sabri isn't worth it
3) transfer strategy, which he is not responsible for but is significantly directed by what he says he needs.
That has seen us sign how many defensive midfielders now? Four? How many defenders? Five?.
How many attacking players (given that breaking teams down and getting goals was our issue last year)?
Fewer, and matched by departures.
Aside from this being a bad idea, you would expect a team that has signed around 9 new defensive players to be capable of basic defending. Even if they don't know each other yet. The goals we are conceding aren't very hard.
4) the scar of Stoke is clearly a huge mill around the club's neck. Sabri has clearly dealt with this exceptionally poorly. He says they have talked about it once. His strategy seems to be to get rid of everyone involved, rather than show some leadership in actually excising the wound. A good manager could turn that around and use it as a motivator. Sabri has let it fester into gangrene
There is absolutely no point in persisting with the wrong man, and I would ask you to explain what you have seen that makes you believe this manager can coach a team to be a better attacking force? Especially when haven't scored anything other than a set piece or a long range worldie in ages
weejockmcplop
Vital Champions League
I still think with a whole new team the style will come out after they have played together a bit. Buying that many players and then treating the current run as continuous from the end of last season doesn't seem quite right to me.
You can cut and paste our results to create any picture of Lamouchi you want. We went on a really good run last season before it all went to shit. People seem to have totally forgotten that that ever happened now. I actually have confidence that we can turn this form around with the players we now have.
These players are capable of defending, they have just been thrown in at the deep end. But yes, I agree that our transfer strategy is mad, but it is definitely another reason to give Lamouchi a few more games. What's the point in getting all these guys in that Lamouchi says he needs and then immediately sacking Lamouchi. It just doesn't make sense.
I don't think we need to be a better attacking force than we were last season.l We just need our midfield and defence to get up to the level they were and for Grabban to rediscover some scoring form.
The question to me is whether Lamouchi is capable of reproducing what he managed during the first half of last season with a squad that is better. I think he is.
---------------------
Still no-one has told me when was the last time we allowed a manager to recover from a bad run.
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
1) you spin the last 20 results in a positive way?
How?
2) can you tell me, with evidence, what the style of play SL is trying to implement looks like?
3) you say we don't need to improve the attack and effectively that we don't need to improve the defence. In other words, you don't think we need to improve on last season at all.
But we failed out objective last season....
Sanchez flores
Vital Reserves Team
And we will be as equally uninspiring and awful to watch. I cannot take much more of it. The only thing I thank boris for right now is banning me from the stadium.
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
Where did he insult you?
