Sheffield Wednesday | Page 3 | Vital Football

Sheffield Wednesday

Scotimp

Vital Football Legend
#41
Just how bent is football nowadays? The deduction for Wigan Athletic applies this season, seeing them relegated (pending the appeal), but Sheffield Wednesday get away with it until next season?

I know that the two situations are different, but there is a serious, serious lack of consistency with punishments.
More inconsistent, than bent. As I understand it, the 12-point deduction for entering administration (i.e. Wigan) is written into the rules of the EFL and is automatic; those rules also stipulate to which season the deduction is to apply, hence Wigan being relegated this season.

The 12-point deduction for Wednesday is determined by referral to an independent commission, and is not actually written into the rules of the EFL. That obviously carries no stipulation as to which season it should apply.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#42
You are a smart fella, Notty, surely the decision doesn't surprise you. It certainly doesn't me.
I'm more surprised that Wigan haven't got away with theirs. Still time though :unsure:
Sadly plumbob I think you'll find the problem at Wigan is that they have been done at the knees from the inside. There is an allegation going around that their new owner wanted them relegated as there is a large bet on that happening. Who knows how true that crazy suggestion is but it certainly not any crazier than the debacle of The EFL.
 

Scotimp

Vital Football Legend
#43
My head is still spinning, although that may be related to an evening of rum and coke, and having to watch two episodes of Death In Paradise. Signing off again.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#44
More inconsistent, than bent. As I understand it, the 12-point deduction for entering administration (i.e. Wigan) is written into the rules of the EFL and is automatic; those rules also stipulate to which season the deduction is to apply, hence Wigan being relegated this season.

The 12-point deduction for Wednesday is determined by referral to an independent commission, and is not actually written into the rules of the EFL. That obviously carries no stipulation as to which season it should apply.
And that is why I've always advocated that The EFL should sit down and anticipate every possible form of cheating imaginable and have the clubs pre agree mandatory, consistent punishments when they occur.

Woodward did it with The England RFU World Cup winning team to great effect when he took over the team. Basically he got all the players together and gave them a list of transgressions e.g. late for training. He then left them to it telling the players to come up with a punishment of their choice for each transgression. Then when they broke the rules they immediately got the punishment they had already decided was fair - genius.

If you've already decided the punishment the only thing you are arguing about is guilt; you're halfway there before you start.
 

Casperimp

Vital 1st Team Regular
#45
I find these threads amusing and just can't see the point of getting upset about stuff.

This is all a result of the society we have created for ourselves. You know the one! Where there's a blame there's a claim, Oh it can't possibly be my fault it's someone else's, how dare you you say my little darling did anything wrong, all the police are corrupt let's slag all of them off for a few bad eggs, oh the rules don't apply to me just everyone else.

Finally the most important one of all - But the world revolves around me how dare you have a different opinion to mine I am always right and everyone else is wrong I am going shout really loud and stamp my feet until I get what I want! Now where is my lawyer.

Truth is organisations and people are scared to death now because of all the slagging off they get so in the end fudge stuff and make it worse.
 
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PerthImp

Vital 1st Team Regular
#46
Just amuses me when players get fined and suspended for “bringing the game into disrepute” (usually quite rightly) and yet we have those who make major decisions on the running of the game to whom that standard doesn’t seem to apply - and yet they have so much time to think about the consequences of their decisions before making them while usually the players actions are in the heat of the moment etc. Double standards yet again 🤬🤪🙈.
 

cherryexile

Vital Squad Member
#47
Wednesday are mulling over selling the naming rights to their mascot for £50 million in order to invest in additional foreign players for the 1920/21 season in the hope of avoiding taking responsibility for their actions. The owner is reported as saying "I only got into football in order to pay over the odds to buy my own possessions from myself: it is every school boy's deepest desire when growing up. Robert Maxwell was my idol and I strive every day to live up to his moral standards". At the time of writing, no-one is sure which decade the transaction will appear in the accounts, as there is rumoured to be a problem with the club's time-travel machine.
 
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Impartiality

Vital 1st Team Regular
#48
Wednesday are mulling over selling the naming rights to their mascot for £50 million in order to invest in additional foreign players for the 1920/21 season in the hope of avoiding taking responsibility for their actions. The owner is reported as saying "I only got into football in order to pay over the odds to buy my own possessions from myself: it is every school boy's deepest desire when growing up. Robert Maxwell was my idol and I strive ever day to live up to his moral standards". At the time of writing, no-one is sure which decade the transaction will appear in the accounts, as there is rumoured to be a problem with the club's time-travel machine.
As tongue in cheek as this is, the last paragraph for me really is why so many fans and quite possibly Chairman and directors are so unhappy Wednesday will be punished next season when even the most ardent Wednesday fan can't believe they have dodged the bullet by not getting it this season.
 

Gratzimp

Vital Reserves Team
#49
More inconsistent, than bent. As I understand it, the 12-point deduction for entering administration (i.e. Wigan) is written into the rules of the EFL and is automatic; those rules also stipulate to which season the deduction is to apply, hence Wigan being relegated this season.

The 12-point deduction for Wednesday is determined by referral to an independent commission, and is not actually written into the rules of the EFL. That obviously carries no stipulation as to which season it should apply.
Surely, the best thing to do was to have the rules rewritten to state that any breaches would see a 12 point deduction applied to the season that breach was committed. Meaning Wigan, Sheff Wed, and Derby would all have been deducted points for the season just concluded. This would mean, Wigan and Sheff. Wed. relegated, and Charlton surviving (although looks like they may be going to the wall too).
This would stop any arguements, you break the financial rules or go into admin that season, BANG! AUTOMATIC minus 12 points.
 

SIMJON

Vital Champions League
#50
Surely, the best thing to do was to have the rules rewritten to state that any breaches would see a 12 point deduction applied to the season that breach was committed. Meaning Wigan, Sheff Wed, and Derby would all have been deducted points for the season just concluded. This would mean, Wigan and Sheff. Wed. relegated, and Charlton surviving (although looks like they may be going to the wall too).
This would stop any arguements, you break the financial rules or go into admin that season, BANG! AUTOMATIC minus 12 points.
But that would have been no effective punishment for Derby.
 

Impecunious

Vital Squad Member
#53
Surely, the best thing to do was to have the rules rewritten to state that any breaches would see a 12 point deduction applied to the season that breach was committed.
Even then you have to be careful with the wording. The Wednesday breach was in the 2017/18 accounts and took a while to come to light.
 

Scotimp

Vital Football Legend
#54
And that is why I've always advocated that The EFL should sit down and anticipate every possible form of cheating imaginable and have the clubs pre agree mandatory, consistent punishments when they occur.
In an ideal world, that would be the way to go. However, the main problem is that any rule change and related penalties must be proposed and voted on by the clubs. Turkeys do not vote for Christmas, so certain clubs are highly unlikely to support any mechanism that significantly changes the way they choose to trade. For example, it would be difficult to alter the requirements of the Owners' and Directors' Test very much (not 'the fit and proper test', please) because it would restrict the ability of the owners to sell when they wish to bale out.

As I mentioned last night, any private members' club depends on the willingness of its members to abide by the rules they have themselves created. Resorting to the law falls outside of that implicit agreement in my opinion. Clubs used to abide by those rules before very recent times, and that is the major shift in attitude that has created the present mess. The behaviour of the clubs is making football ungovernable without significant rule changes and a willingness on the part of the members not to cheat. Call me a cynic, but I just can't see that happening.
 

plumbob

Vital Football Hero
#55
Sadly plumbob I think you'll find the problem at Wigan is that they have been done at the knees from the inside. There is an allegation going around that their new owner wanted them relegated as there is a large bet on that happening. Who knows how true that crazy suggestion is but it certainly not any crazier than the debacle of The EFL.
Yes, I've heard about the bet, and something about a large loan placed on the club to a different company with the same owners.
Still wouldn't be too surprised if they got a little leniency.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#60
In an ideal world, that would be the way to go. However, the main problem is that any rule change and related penalties must be proposed and voted on by the clubs. Turkeys do not vote for Christmas, so certain clubs are highly unlikely to support any mechanism that significantly changes the way they choose to trade. For example, it would be difficult to alter the requirements of the Owners' and Directors' Test very much (not 'the fit and proper test', please) because it would restrict the ability of the owners to sell when they wish to bale out.

As I mentioned last night, any private members' club depends on the willingness of its members to abide by the rules they have themselves created. Resorting to the law falls outside of that implicit agreement in my opinion. Clubs used to abide by those rules before very recent times, and that is the major shift in attitude that has created the present mess. The behaviour of the clubs is making football ungovernable without significant rule changes and a willingness on the part of the members not to cheat. Call me a cynic, but I just can't see that happening.
Money the route of all evil then. That's quite a depressing picture you paint there Scotimp, basically indicating that the majority of clubs like to leave themselves some wriggle room to cheat.