Self Diagnosis Isolation Corvid-19 | Page 15 | Vital Football

Self Diagnosis Isolation Corvid-19

Charliejoejohn2

Vital Reserves Team
I bet if somebody had started banging on about Blair and Brown ripping off the poorest workers by ditching the 10p tax bracket, or the fact that they left the country without a pot to piss in (and just imagine where that’d leave us right now) they’d be quite rightly told to give it a rest.

For the record I told CJJ that I’d seen it doing the rounds, (on Twitter, goons trying to stir up unrest just when we least need it), so it wasn’t aimed directly at him, it was aimed at those total imbeciles.
It’s a good job it wasn’t aimed at me. That would be fighting talk!💪🤛🤛🤣🤣
 

FatherKnowsBest

Vital 1st Team Regular
Charlie i pointed out to the bretheren about South Korea's test test test policy having worked and their cases were on a downward trend,it must have been miss-information is how it was greeted,but hey ho.

I think it was just pointed out that we are not Korea, and Korea's approach has been different to many other countries. Having done a little more research, the key points appear to be.

= S Korea has, in the last 10 years had both SARS and MERS viruses. They have got existing tried and tested procedures in place. We had neither. You could also count that the population having experienced something worse than Covid, as more compliant and knowledgable. We still have many people who can't get their heads around an instruction as simple as 'Stay at home'.
= They have testing but their testing is highly specific. They have laws and resources so that they can track you and publish all your movements, phone records, CCTV etc etc and can do so with anyone that you have come into contact with, even down to identifying who might have used the same toilet as you in a cafe. We have neither the laws nor the resources to be able to identify every individual you may have come into contact with. It is serious Big Brother stuff that would have been fought off if you'd suggested that we even have the capability to do it..
= They are geared up for 20,000 tests a day. To be of value you have to 1. have the tests, and 2. be able to process them.3. Test the right people. There is no point randomly testing everyone. We have never needed to do mass testing on this scale. We will have the capability but its taken time to get the tests available, and the test equipment isn't just waiting for someone to take the cover off and plug it all in. It has to be procured, built and installed. After this, we will have it, but when will we need it again..?

The thing is, there are lots of armchair epidemiologists right now, looking for differences in numbers and asking why this number is bigger than that one, and trying to draw all kinds of conclusions when the truth is that it is just too complex to get a simple answer for. Every nation appears to be doing something a little differently, but people of every nation LIVE differently. Why is the north of Italy doing so badly, is it that it has a high percentage of old people and grandparents tend to live with the family? Is it because they are more physically demonstrative, kisses and hugs than Koreans who only bow to each other..?

Even amongst death rates, there are lots of differences of doing the calculations. Some are only based on hospital admissions, some on community isolations, but what everyone seems to admit is that there are 10 times (could be 5, could be 50) times the number of infections, than are being used in the calculations anyway, as people get it and recover from it without it becoming a statistic. So one countries 4% may actually be better than anothers 2%.

My point therefore is that picking one number and going 'Ah! That's what we should be doing' is pretty pointless. We all want to be helpful (apart from the ones who want to just be intellectually superior...or 'Because Boris..'), but drawing a direct comparison with somewhere not actually directly comparable based on one number, is absolutely pointless. Worse still it undermines the UK response to this whole situation, and that may actually be one of the things that has stopped so many of our fellow citizens from taking this seriously.

I see we've even got Conor McGregor, the MMA fighter giving us advice now on what we should all do. I don't care if he can kick my head in. He should shut his mouth and leave it to the experts.
 

ayamonte

Vital Squad Member
I think it was just pointed out that we are not Korea, and Korea's approach has been different to many other countries. Having done a little more research, the key points appear to be.

= S Korea has, in the last 10 years had both SARS and MERS viruses. They have got existing tried and tested procedures in place. We had neither. You could also count that the population having experienced something worse than Covid, as more compliant and knowledgable. We still have many people who can't get their heads around an instruction as simple as 'Stay at home'.
= They have testing but their testing is highly specific. They have laws and resources so that they can track you and publish all your movements, phone records, CCTV etc etc and can do so with anyone that you have come into contact with, even down to identifying who might have used the same toilet as you in a cafe. We have neither the laws nor the resources to be able to identify every individual you may have come into contact with. It is serious Big Brother stuff that would have been fought off if you'd suggested that we even have the capability to do it..
= They are geared up for 20,000 tests a day. To be of value you have to 1. have the tests, and 2. be able to process them.3. Test the right people. There is no point randomly testing everyone. We have never needed to do mass testing on this scale. We will have the capability but its taken time to get the tests available, and the test equipment isn't just waiting for someone to take the cover off and plug it all in. It has to be procured, built and installed. After this, we will have it, but when will we need it again..?

The thing is, there are lots of armchair epidemiologists right now, looking for differences in numbers and asking why this number is bigger than that one, and trying to draw all kinds of conclusions when the truth is that it is just too complex to get a simple answer for. Every nation appears to be doing something a little differently, but people of every nation LIVE differently. Why is the north of Italy doing so badly, is it that it has a high percentage of old people and grandparents tend to live with the family? Is it because they are more physically demonstrative, kisses and hugs than Koreans who only bow to each other..?

Even amongst death rates, there are lots of differences of doing the calculations. Some are only based on hospital admissions, some on community isolations, but what everyone seems to admit is that there are 10 times (could be 5, could be 50) times the number of infections, than are being used in the calculations anyway, as people get it and recover from it without it becoming a statistic. So one countries 4% may actually be better than anothers 2%.

My point therefore is that picking one number and going 'Ah! That's what we should be doing' is pretty pointless. We all want to be helpful (apart from the ones who want to just be intellectually superior...or 'Because Boris..'), but drawing a direct comparison with somewhere not actually directly comparable based on one number, is absolutely pointless. Worse still it undermines the UK response to this whole situation, and that may actually be one of the things that has stopped so many of our fellow citizens from taking this seriously.

I see we've even got Conor McGregor, the MMA fighter giving us advice now on what we should all do. I don't care if he can kick my head in. He should shut his mouth and leave it to the experts.
Thanks FKB - your post is clear - so many people trying to undermine the country's efforts - for whatever reason - it cheers me up to read a bit of simple research and common sense.

Looking forward to hearing the counter argument
 

FatherKnowsBest

Vital 1st Team Regular
Thanks FKB - your post is clear - so many people trying to undermine the country's efforts - for whatever reason - it cheers me up to read a bit of simple research and common sense.

Looking forward to hearing the counter argument

An argument is the last thing I want to have.

I didn't study this for my Masters or Doctorate. I'm just a curious cynic. I don't like to be told what to think and I don't imagine I can do any better than those already doing it.

It's all on Google if anyone wants to go and read about it.
 

ChipButtyBlade

Vital Squad Member
I think it was just pointed out that we are not Korea, and Korea's approach has been different to many other countries. Having done a little more research, the key points appear to be.

= S Korea has, in the last 10 years had both SARS and MERS viruses. They have got existing tried and tested procedures in place. We had neither. You could also count that the population having experienced something worse than Covid, as more compliant and knowledgable. We still have many people who can't get their heads around an instruction as simple as 'Stay at home'.
= They have testing but their testing is highly specific. They have laws and resources so that they can track you and publish all your movements, phone records, CCTV etc etc and can do so with anyone that you have come into contact with, even down to identifying who might have used the same toilet as you in a cafe. We have neither the laws nor the resources to be able to identify every individual you may have come into contact with. It is serious Big Brother stuff that would have been fought off if you'd suggested that we even have the capability to do it..
= They are geared up for 20,000 tests a day. To be of value you have to 1. have the tests, and 2. be able to process them.3. Test the right people. There is no point randomly testing everyone. We have never needed to do mass testing on this scale. We will have the capability but its taken time to get the tests available, and the test equipment isn't just waiting for someone to take the cover off and plug it all in. It has to be procured, built and installed. After this, we will have it, but when will we need it again..?

The thing is, there are lots of armchair epidemiologists right now, looking for differences in numbers and asking why this number is bigger than that one, and trying to draw all kinds of conclusions when the truth is that it is just too complex to get a simple answer for. Every nation appears to be doing something a little differently, but people of every nation LIVE differently. Why is the north of Italy doing so badly, is it that it has a high percentage of old people and grandparents tend to live with the family? Is it because they are more physically demonstrative, kisses and hugs than Koreans who only bow to each other..?

Even amongst death rates, there are lots of differences of doing the calculations. Some are only based on hospital admissions, some on community isolations, but what everyone seems to admit is that there are 10 times (could be 5, could be 50) times the number of infections, than are being used in the calculations anyway, as people get it and recover from it without it becoming a statistic. So one countries 4% may actually be better than anothers 2%.

My point therefore is that picking one number and going 'Ah! That's what we should be doing' is pretty pointless. We all want to be helpful (apart from the ones who want to just be intellectually superior...or 'Because Boris..'), but drawing a direct comparison with somewhere not actually directly comparable based on one number, is absolutely pointless. Worse still it undermines the UK response to this whole situation, and that may actually be one of the things that has stopped so many of our fellow citizens from taking this seriously.

I see we've even got Conor McGregor, the MMA fighter giving us advice now on what we should all do. I don't care if he can kick my head in. He should shut his mouth and leave it to the experts.
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So basically you are saying South Korea were better prepared for it than us (shame you could not have done that in the 1st instance instead of being dissmissive #194 ),your latest input just re-enforces the question why were WE not prepared,there have been enough warnings about an epidemic of this size for a number of years.

I pointed out your ???? highlighted above ^^ pages back in this thread,its common sense "self distancing" approach works better for the Koreans than it has for the Italiens,btw Koreans look after their old folk too.

Thats why i told a couple of twats in Asda yesterday to look on the floor and get 2 metre's away from my back.
 

FatherKnowsBest

Vital 1st Team Regular
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So basically you are saying South Korea were better prepared for it than us (shame you could not have done that in the 1st instance instead of being dissmissive #194 ),your latest input just re-enforces the question why were WE not prepared,there have been enough warnings about an epidemic of this size for a number of years.

I pointed out your ???? highlighted above ^^ pages back in this thread,its common sense "self distancing" approach works better for the Koreans than it has for the Italiens,btw Koreans look after their old folk too.

Thats why i told a couple of twats in Asda yesterday to look on the floor and get 2 metre's away from my back.
Im sorry CBB, but from the very first post, you have been dismissive of everything that is being done, mostly from the angle of 'look at the useless Tories'. You promote the South Korea model of dealing with the crisis without understanding what it is, and now you want to know why are WE (along with the rest of the Western Hemisphere) were not as prepared as the Koreans were.

Well what were we preparing for...exactly? Unless you have an infallible crystal ball, there is only so much you can prepare for. That is unless you think we should be prepared for absolutely everything. Should we have 20,000 intensive care beds waiting, just in case....Good luck paying the bill.

New strains of viruses appear all the time. One passed through last autumn affecting children mainly. Most are mild, or hard to catch, or pass through without a single newspaper headline. The first announcement of the Covid virus was last week of December, at which point it looked like something that could be contained in China. That was WHO advice. South Korea didn't begin their preparations until mid January. The first cases in Europe were on January 24th. In Italy the Lombardy cluster wasn't identified until February 21st, and despite a lock-down put in place a fortnight after, just two weeks after that they have 7,500 deaths. Italy has the best healthcare in Europe, so they say. Go on, tell me that was predictable.

You seem to accept that different approaches work differently for different populations and cultures. I suggest that what works in one place is not guaranteed to be the best solution in another, especially if you look beneath the numbers and understand how they work. There may be several approaches that work successfully. Ours may be one of them. We'll find out in a couple of weeks if the infections have fallen sharply.

Now we go back over the 'warnings'. So after two significant respiratory viruses emerging in SE Asia in the last fifteen years, it wouldn't be too much of a leap to imagine that there was a chance another virus would emerge in the next 15 years. Even I can predict that. Lots of people claiming that they 'knew and tried to warn us.' Did they bollocks... No-one could predict the nature of the C-19 virus and speed of transmission, the seriousness of the illness in terms of mortality, nor exactly how to deal with it. Its just guesses, based on other guesses.

I found this on the web, the page of official warnings about Covid19 issued to the Central Alerting System of the NHS and PHE. It makes an interesting read actually to see the advice from day 1, and how it has progressed.

https://www.cas.mhra.gov.uk/Help/CoronavirusAlerts.aspx

All I am saying is what I have said from the start. Trust the Scientists and the Clinicians who have studied these situations, dealt with them before, or at least seen them dealt with rather than being critical and coming up with your own solutions. If people think that they shouldn't trust what the government is asking them to do, then they will go to parks in large numbers, they will cough in your ear'ole at Asda and they will fail to do the simple things that will see us out the other side of this in the shortest possible time.

Another document that makes interesting reading. These reports and lots of others are produced by teams of NHS folk every year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...nal-flu-report-summary-3-january-2020-week-53
 

FatherKnowsBest

Vital 1st Team Regular
If anyone cares, this is the original announcement from the World Health Organisation issued to all healthcare providers on January 5th that something was was 'going on' in Wuhan.

https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-january-2020-pneumonia-of-unkown-cause-china/en/

I draw your attention to phrases like 'Based on the preliminary information from the Chinese investigation team, no evidence of significant human-to-human transmission and no health care worker infections have been reported. ' and 'WHO does not recommend any specific measures for travellers.'. Clearly the fast moving nature of Covid has caught out everyone...
 

Charliejoejohn2

Vital Reserves Team
If anyone cares, this is the original announcement from the World Health Organisation issued to all healthcare providers on January 5th that something was was 'going on' in Wuhan.

https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-january-2020-pneumonia-of-unkown-cause-china/en/

I draw your attention to phrases like 'Based on the preliminary information from the Chinese investigation team, no evidence of significant human-to-human transmission and no health care worker infections have been reported. ' and 'WHO does not recommend any specific measures for travellers.'. Clearly the fast moving nature of Covid has caught out everyone...
I believe everything the Chinese say! 🤔
 

Grayblade

Vital Squad Member
Thanks FKB - your post is clear - so many people trying to undermine the country's efforts - for whatever reason - it cheers me up to read a bit of simple research and common sense.

Looking forward to hearing the counter argument
You need to watch Open All Hours then Mrs Fer, Mrs Fer, Mrs Fer Fer Fer Fer Featherstone 😀