Seasons player summary - done by Nick. | Page 2 | Vital Football

Seasons player summary - done by Nick.

Real Deal said:
No way does Dier deserve player of the season. A player that gets carried by a formation and players around him and still makes mistakes every game doesn't deserve Jack.

Think about what he actually does in games. He literally gets a free pass.

He gets to point and shout at others from a central position. He gets to make long diagonal passes from deep.

He can't defend wider areas because he gets skinned or turned. He doesn't close spaces in front of him because he can't read the game quickly enough and doesn't have the mobility to move. He struggles to mark anyone with movement on crosses and set pieces.

Just think about all of the goals that have came down the middle because he didn't close the space in front of him? The amount of times he turned his back on shots?

We have to remember we literally play with 7 defensive players every game, so it's easier to mask weaknesses.

He has had some terrible performances this season. Plenty of games where he has made mistakes. From the top of my head:

Palace away
Arsenal away
United Home
United away
City away
Chelsea away
Liverpool home
Boro away
Burnley away
Brighton home

It's funny outside spurs, every football coach I have worked with this year, coaches from League 2 two clubs and various colleges in the SW all think he is an average defender. Decent on the ball when he concentrates.

He has proven he can be a solid honest professional though. A decent squad player.
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I can agree with some of that, but can't agree that we make him the scapegoat for 10 games when there were mistakes aplenty all around him. I bet he wasn't the root cause for any of those goals, but I bet Davies was responsible for more. I notice Davies gets a free pass even though he is often beaten in the air and in the foot race and his positioning is woeful. Nobody even noticed the other day that Ben had stayed planted to the spot to leave the gap that exposed Dier. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't because of his left centre half.

Where I can agree is that an upgrade on both would be welcome.
 
Interesting thread Nick and Ex , thanks .

Dier played a pivotal role in that defence , especially pre Romero when he had a new and struggling Royal with only a very poor Doherty as back up , Sanchez alongside him with Tanga struggling as back up , Davies learning as he went along with Rodon as back up , and Reggie leaving all sorts of gaps , with a lost Sess as back up .

Given how he held it all together says a lot .
The ones he had in front of him didn’t do him any favours either .
Ndom , Gio, Winks , Gil , Alli .
The pressure on Skipp and Hojberg was huge

.
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
Interesting thread Nick and Ex , thanks .

Dier played a pivotal role in that defence , especially pre Romero when he had a new and struggling Royal with only a very poor Doherty as back up , Sanchez alongside him with Tanga struggling as back up , Davies learning as he went along with Rodon as back up , and Reggie leaving all sorts of gaps , with a lost Sess as back up .

Given how he held it all together says a lot .
The ones he had in front of him didn’t do him any favours either .
Ndom , Gio, Winks , Gil , Alli .
The pressure on Skipp and Hojberg was huge

.
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Or maybe Romero, Davies, Hojbjerg, Skippy and Bentancur covered up his weaknesses?

Think about it, Dier never covered the wider areas, the CM guys worked like dogs in front of our defenders so they didn't get bombarded.

So his sole job was to own the centre.

Considering his weaknesses still shone through most games I would say Dier is the biggest weakness in our back line.
 
I think the Dier discussion is a dilemma! good enough or bad enough, personally I believe he is good enough with the right peops/players around him, yes he has made mistakes, its in him, but lets be honest who of the rest hasn't?

We/you have to ask ourselves/yourself is his mistakes of his own making? or are they contrived by others?

Is Dier a Spurs die hard/leader? and say for example tries to hard! do his fellow pro's around him believe?..Ok! I make a mistake but Eric will cover it up for me?

I personally/my views think ED is stuck between a rock and a hard place unfortunately.
 
muttley said:
I can agree with some of that, but can't agree that we make him the scapegoat for 10 games when there were mistakes aplenty all around him. I bet he wasn't the root cause for any of those goals, but I bet Davies was responsible for more. I notice Davies gets a free pass even though he is often beaten in the air and in the foot race and his positioning is woeful. Nobody even noticed the other day that Ben had stayed planted to the spot to leave the gap that exposed Dier. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't because of his left centre half.

Where I can agree is that an upgrade on both would be welcome.
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Of course he wasn't the only culprit for all of the goals. He was one of the reasons and sometimes the big reason why. My point is any player making the amount of mistakes he makes does not deserve a player of the year award.

I have always agreed with you regarding Davies.

A great example in the Newcastle home game this season.

The score line looked great. But when you analyse the game deep you see things differently.

I remember most including yourself saying Dier had a brilliant game.

Then when you look deeper you see the chances Newcastle created.

Dier gave the ball away in his own penalty area, then gets skinned in the area and they hit the post.

He then loses his man on a set piece, nearly resulting in a goal.

Woods gave him a right battering. I remember a simple long ball down the centre, Dier loses his aerial battle, Woods then turns him and gets the shot out.

Nothing got mentioned about these incidents. Really poor defending but got brushed under the carpet.

I don't know why people won't talk about his weaknesses. I can only assume most people don't even watch games and follow the narrative because it easier. Then some just don't have the ability to see the mistakes.

Baffling either way.
 
Pompey Yid said:
I think the Dier discussion is a dilemma! good enough or bad enough, personally I believe he is good enough with the right peops/players around him, yes he has made mistakes, its in him, but lets be honest who of the rest hasn't?

We/you have to ask ourselves/yourself is his mistakes of his own making? or are they contrived by others?

Is Dier a Spurs die hard/leader? and say for example tries to hard! do his fellow pro's around him believe?..Ok! I make a mistake but Eric will cover it up for me?

I personally/my views think ED is stuck between a rock and a hard place unfortunately.
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Like any player, most will make mistakes. But some make more than others.

What I have a problem with is when he does make mistakes they just get brushed under the carpet. It's been going on since Conte arrived.

When Romero, Sanchez or Davies made mistakes they get called out for it.

Like I said baffling.
 
Real Deal said:
Like any player, most will make mistakes. But some make more than others.

What I have a problem with is when he does make mistakes they just get brushed under the carpet. It's been going on since Conte arrived.

When Romero, Sanchez or Davies made mistakes they get called out for it.

Like I said baffling.
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Mmmm! RD you could be right there! but have those 3 making mistakes have been the reason for Dier's mistakes? is to much put on his shoulders by others? just some thoughts mate.
 
Dier has been called out for his customary giveaway pass in each game. He does do it regularly I agree. I trust Conte on his assessment of players so it will be interesting if Dier remains a constant pick bext season.
 
I think it's a cumulative effect of having so many average defense minded players, and the better ones who were equally poor at passing and ball retention. We only had one outlet plan, the Kane and Son partnership which kept us afloat. Since Conte arrived individuals have markedly improved, and we look better defensively but still have player limitations in key areas. It was key that Conte brought in Bentancur in January to raise the level in and around our defense & tie in with the improvement of others.
 
Real Deal said:
Of course he wasn't the only culprit for all of the goals. He was one of the reasons and sometimes the big reason why. My point is any player making the amount of mistakes he makes does not deserve a player of the year award.

I have always agreed with you regarding Davies.

A great example in the Newcastle home game this season.

The score line looked great. But when you analyse the game deep you see things differently.

I remember most including yourself saying Dier had a brilliant game.

Then when you look deeper you see the chances Newcastle created.

Dier gave the ball away in his own penalty area, then gets skinned in the area and they hit the post.

He then loses his man on a set piece, nearly resulting in a goal.

Woods gave him a right battering. I remember a simple long ball down the centre, Dier loses his aerial battle, Woods then turns him and gets the shot out.

Nothing got mentioned about these incidents. Really poor defending but got brushed under the carpet.

I don't know why people won't talk about his weaknesses. I can only assume most people don't even watch games and follow the narrative because it easier. Then some just don't have the ability to see the mistakes.

Baffling either way.
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The problem with POTY is the following:
1) Candidates like Bentancur and Kulu only played half a season, whilst Romero had his injury challenges. He was also caught up in the COVID Argentina travel fiasco with the muppets from FIFA.
2) Kane turned up late, never once put in a big shift but did some quality things. I can't give him POTY because I know we have a player who thinks he's bigger than the club and doesn't cross the white line with a professional attitude. He also only got one more assist than Kulu, 2 more than Son even though his excuse for dropping back was to be the creator. 40 touches a game, every game, isn't a POTY material.
3) Sonny is a genuine shout. His goals and assists output was fantastic but, like Kane, didn't always contribute defensively.
4) That sort of leaves Hojbjerg, Davies and Dier. 3 players that need replacing but put in a big shift in the 21/22 season. I personally think this was a transitional season for Davies as the first time he had really been asked to play centre half as a permanent role. Dier organised everyone and stood firm, but always had a mistake in him. Hojbjerg dug in and improved during the season but never really inspired.
5) Finally, Hugo. Very steady all season. Picked up some MoTM awards and was the reassuring voice. Distribution was pretty poor though.

Anyway you look at it, the PoTY was the sum of the parts, not one individual. There was no single player who absolutely nailed it.
 
muttley said:
The problem with POTY is the following:
1) Candidates like Bentancur and Kulu only played half a season, whilst Romero had his injury challenges. He was also caught up in the COVID Argentina travel fiasco with the muppets from FIFA.
2) Kane turned up late, never once put in a big shift but did some quality things. I can't give him POTY because I know we have a player who thinks he's bigger than the club and doesn't cross the white line with a professional attitude. He also only got one more assist than Kulu, 2 more than Son even though his excuse for dropping back was to be the creator. 40 touches a game, every game, isn't a POTY material.
3) Sonny is a genuine shout. His goals and assists output was fantastic but, like Kane, didn't always contribute defensively.
4) That sort of leaves Hojbjerg, Davies and Dier. 3 players that need replacing but put in a big shift in the 21/22 season. I personally think this was a transitional season for Davies as the first time he had really been asked to play centre half as a permanent role. Dier organised everyone and stood firm, but always had a mistake in him. Hojbjerg dug in and improved during the season but never really inspired.
5) Finally, Hugo. Very steady all season. Picked up some MoTM awards and was the reassuring voice. Distribution was pretty poor though.

Anyway you look at it, the PoTY was the sum of the parts, not one individual. There was no single player who absolutely nailed it.
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Not absolutely but there has to be one who even narrowly edges it.
Maybe who was best in their role or position.....was Son a better goal scorer than Romero was a defender ?
 
muttley said:
The problem with POTY is the following:
1) Candidates like Bentancur and Kulu only played half a season, whilst Romero had his injury challenges. He was also caught up in the COVID Argentina travel fiasco with the muppets from FIFA.
2) Kane turned up late, never once put in a big shift but did some quality things. I can't give him POTY because I know we have a player who thinks he's bigger than the club and doesn't cross the white line with a professional attitude. He also only got one more assist than Kulu, 2 more than Son even though his excuse for dropping back was to be the creator. 40 touches a game, every game, isn't a POTY material.
3) Sonny is a genuine shout. His goals and assists output was fantastic but, like Kane, didn't always contribute defensively.
4) That sort of leaves Hojbjerg, Davies and Dier. 3 players that need replacing but put in a big shift in the 21/22 season. I personally think this was a transitional season for Davies as the first time he had really been asked to play centre half as a permanent role. Dier organised everyone and stood firm, but always had a mistake in him. Hojbjerg dug in and improved during the season but never really inspired.
5) Finally, Hugo. Very steady all season. Picked up some MoTM awards and was the reassuring voice. Distribution was pretty poor though.

Anyway you look at it, the PoTY was the sum of the parts, not one individual. There was no single player who absolutely nailed it.
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I get your point regarding players only playing 18 plus games. But when those players have literally helped transform the team from mid table to CL I find it hard to not vote for them players.

Without Romero, Bentancur, Kulu we do not get CL. I can't say that would be the case for Royal, Doherty, Dier, Davies, Reggie or Sess. Even though they have helped in their own way.

Hugo was our best performer before his contract renewal. He then had a poor run of form for half a dozen games. He then turned it back on after the Brighton home game.

Outside the attacking players I would say Hojbjerg with Hugo have been our most consistent players.
 
So the 2 new lads really didn't pitch up until the end of January and didn't even get involved until game 22 in second week of Feb. lol - we lost 2-0 to Wolves.

Mostly, they also played when we were dealing with a single game a week so conditions were much easier on them than the other bunch that just had to get their heads down and grind out 2 games a week, every week for first half a season.

Also, that critical period of end of Jan / early Feb. I bet you can't guess who was missing for 2 of those 3 games when we lost 3 on the bounce? Yep, Eric Dier. Saying that he was part of the 3 back to back losses in September, albeit in a back four with little protection in front.

Hence why I can favour Dier, but not the new guys as it is an entire season we're talking about.
 
muttley said:
So the 2 new lads really didn't pitch up until the end of January and didn't even get involved until game 22 in second week of Feb. lol - we lost 2-0 to Wolves.

Mostly, they also played when we were dealing with a single game a week so conditions were much easier on them than the other bunch that just had to get their heads down and grind out 2 games a week, every week for first half a season.

Also, that critical period of end of Jan / early Feb. I bet you can't guess who was missing for 2 of those 3 games when we lost 3 on the bounce? Yep, Eric Dier. Saying that he was part of the 3 back to back losses in September, albeit in a back four with little protection in front.

Hence why I can favour Dier, but not the new guys as it is an entire season we're talking about.
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Yeah and I remember him coming back in against Chelsea in the cup and guess what we lost.

He isn't some super hero. 🤣
 
Here is a 3 season average which is as far back as I can go. 2019/20, 20/21 and 21/22.

1. Kane 6.42
2. Dier 6.15
3. Lloris 6.14
4. Son 6.07
5. Moura 5.85
6. Sanchez 5.80
7. Davies 5.59

Only 7 players qualify for 3 full seasons of sustained games each season.

Kane despite having a so so season this year is actually significantly above the others. Dier was next then Hugo who is non outfield. Son is 4th in the low 6s.
 
1. Kane 6.38, 6.63, 6.25
2. Dier 5.70, 6.10, 6.65
3. Lloris 5.75, 6.22, 6.45
4. Son 5.65, 6.19, 6.37
5. Moura 5.61, 5.78, 6.17
6. Sanchez 5.52, 5.70, 6.18
7. Davies 5.03, 5.84, 5.91

First column 2019 and so on.

There is progression over the seasons for every player except the top 3 season performer....Kane.

On reflection I would expect progression each season. If there is regression there is probably a problem !!
 
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