Season tickets

[Deleted member 10554]

As long as we run the buyback scheme I can't see a problem getting a ticket most weeks? How many games did we actually sell out last season anyway?

A buyback system is potluck though, isn't it. This is a radical idea but in times of great demand I'd consider joining a deposit scheme that gives you first refusal on tickets for specific seats. So you get a first refusal up to a week before any match before they go on general sale.

 

[SteveSpence]

When I moved to Newcastle in 1996, Sid James park had a 36000 capacity for a home crowd that could have been twice that every week. I knew blokes that had one-third shares in season tickets. Everyone that wants to attend a City home game this season will be able to get in. It’s not that bad.

 

[HitherImp]

When I moved to Newcastle in 1996, Sid James park had a 36000 capacity for a home crowd that could have been twice that every week. I knew blokes that had one-third shares in season tickets. Everyone that wants to attend a City home game this season will be able to get in. It’s not that bad.

On the evidence of the back-end of last season, I fear this may not be the case! I'm sure Liam and co are working super hard to figure out ways to maximise the ground space but sell-outs a week ahead for numerous matches may be the norm again.

Nice problem to have though!

 

[nlondonimp]

On the evidence of the back-end of last season, I fear this may not be the case! I'm sure Liam and co are working super hard to figure out ways to maximise the ground space but sell-outs a week ahead for numerous matches may be the norm again.

Nice problem to have though!

liam has already said there is some kind of plan to increase capacity... but it was based on us getting promotion. the good news is, at least there is a plan.

 

[SalfordImp]

Unfortunately a guaranteed sale (and paid in advance) is far better than a potential sale. Not only is it vital for budgeting, it is also useful for matchday planning, policing, stewarding, catering etc.

Furthermore, capping it at 4500 would be lunacy - why cost yourself a guaranteed income? No business would do that deliberately. Regular repeat customers are the lifeblood of any organisation, not the casual customer.

Tottaly agree. Plus the club know how much income they have before the end of the transfer window (Aug), so they know how much they can pay in player wages and transfer fees.

Pay on the day depends on season perfomance and could tail off after 5, 10 games.

'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' saying springs to mind.

 

[The Electric Banana]

Of course we are aggravating the situation by over discounting season tickets,particularly the over 60's.

Am I the only person who thinks this is a progressive move by the club?

 

[cherryexile]

We don't have a demand that outstrips supply at the moment. It happened a few times last year for specific games, but on the whole people can get in if they want to. Going forward, if we start selling out most weeks there are options - temporary seating (although it is usually rented, so not always that profitable for the club), lotteries for available tickets (Liverpool run a system like this), selling tickets further in advance so that the casual supporter can plan their visit. If you have to do this the only long term solutions are 1) increase capacity or, 2) play crap and get relegated, otherwise known as the West Brom route.

 

[impede]

i wonder what the average income per casual supporter is? which would be the accurate comparison of the difference.

I suspect that was just badly worded @57harry quoted Liam average season ticket income compared to adult pay on the day which is a false comparison. It should be compared to average pay on the day to be a consideration.

 

[brisimp]

The people paying on the day now compares to the whole attendance a few yrs ago ? 6000 season tickets sold is brilliant and cash in the bank . Add the merchandise food sales it must show how tight things were in years gone by

 

[GreenNeedle]

All STs are discount compared to pay on the day.

a lot less admin/customer service though than 23 separate transactions.

 

[Scotimp]

Any business depends on cash flow for its existence, especially entities like football clubs. Many businesses that go to the wall are not necessarily insolvent, they just have inadequate cash flow. Cash flow enables a business to manage things like debt gearing - provided you have enough cash coming in to the business to enable you to service the debt, you don't have a problem in theory, and that is the zone in which the majority of football clubs exist.

Season ticket sales give clubs the cash flow that piecemeal match-by-match ticket sales can never guarantee, and that is why clubs offer a discount for them. The argument that a club would make more money by selling fewer season tickets is largely a red herring on that basis because it introduces too much subjectivity into the budgeting process. Add in the possibility of a bad winter with home games postponed, and potentially you have a problem paying your bills because you have no cash coming in. Good season ticket sales may create lower revenue if a club has a very good season, but it does enable them to manage what they have more efficiently.

 

[57harry]

Any business depends on cash flow for its existence, especially entities like football clubs. Many businesses that go to the wall are not necessarily insolvent, they just have inadequate cash flow. Cash flow enables a business to manage things like debt gearing - provided you have enough cash coming in to the business to enable you to service the debt, you don't have a problem in theory, and that is the zone in which the majority of football clubs exist.

Season ticket sales give clubs the cash flow that piecemeal match-by-match ticket sales can never guarantee, and that is why clubs offer a discount for them. The argument that a club would make more money by selling fewer season tickets is largely a red herring on that basis because it introduces too much subjectivity into the budgeting process. Add in the possibility of a bad winter with home games postponed, and potentially you have a problem paying your bills because you have no cash coming in. Good season ticket sales may create lower revenue if a club has a very good season, but it does enable them to manage what they have more efficiently.

Cashflow is important of course and the biggest issue affecting football clubs is large trading losses. One factor in this is lack of revenue-if you have suffer significant revenue loss by having inadequate pricing then the business will suffer. The benefits of cash upfront need to be kept in proportion. While you benefit at the start of the season,this benefit eventually disappears which is why many clubs have severe difficulties around March/April time.LCFC went into Administration in April (2002).
Also too many season tickets can affect income from casual supporters who use other peoples season tickets due to non-attendance. If there were no pay on the day,cash flow from match receipts would be zero for league games during the season.Whils't easy to forecast this can cause problems for the business.

 

[57harry]

I suspect that was just badly worded @57harry quoted Liam average season ticket income compared to adult pay on the day which is a false comparison. It should be compared to average pay on the day to be a consideration.

That is true of course-it would be interesting to see the average pay/day as a comparison to season ticket.The thing is I don't have the mix available so I could not work it out exactly.I just used it as illustrative purposes as opposed an exact comparison. It assumes that the additonal pay on the day would be all full paying adults. However if these extra pay on the day supporters were in fact all away fans,it would not be an unreasonable assumption.

 

[nlondonimp]

That is true of course-it would be interesting to see the average pay/day as a comparison to season ticket.The thing is I don't have the mix available so I could not work it out exactly.I just used it as illustrative purposes as opposed an exact comparison. It assumes that the additonal pay on the day would be all full paying adults. However if these extra pay on the day supporters were in fact all away fans,it would not be an unreasonable assumption.

why assume all away fans are full paying adults?
https://www.redimps.co.uk/club/away-supporters-guide/

plus, we averaged 3000+ pay on the day customers, so it is impossible to even assume all pay on the day fans were away fans.

 

[Scotimp]

The benefits of cash upfront need to be kept in proportion. While you benefit at the start of the season,this benefit eventually disappears which is why many clubs have severe difficulties around March/April time.LCFC went into Administration in April (2002).

That is not accurate at all - Lincoln went into administration (actually in May) due to the collapse of ITV Digital in March 2002.

Clubs may get into trouble around March/April time because they have not budgeted correctly.

 

[Ex-Ref]

A hangover from our poor years appears to be the supporters fixation on money. Not just a few, but perhaps the majority of fans still concern themselves with revenue avenues. Old habits die hard etc.

 

[Skip155]

...Many businesses that go to the wall are not necessarily insolvent, they just have inadequate cash flow...

Maybe I'm being pedantic but isn't having inadequate cash flow the definition of being insolvent?

 

[IMP757]

Here's a thought - a lot of people are paying for their season tickets with monthly payments via the finance option. Will this help the club with cash flow, i.e the club receives monthly payments from the finance company? Or does the club only receive the money for a season ticket once the finance company has received full payment of said season ticket?

Not entirely sure how it works with regards to the club receiving money for season tickets bought via finance, but it seems that the finance option could benefit both fans and the club alike.

 

[redimps1]

Here's a thought - a lot of people are paying for their season tickets with monthly payments via the finance option. Will this help the club with cash flow, i.e the club receives monthly payments from the finance company? Or does the club only receive the money for a season ticket once the finance company has received full payment of said season ticket?

Not entirely sure how it works with regards to the club receiving money for season tickets bought via finance, but it seems that the finance option could benefit both fans and the club alike.

Personally think its up to the club to tempt those 6000+ season tkt holders to spend money at each game! Thats why the fan zone etc etc are vital !

 

[Red Wimp]

I would have thought City get the money up front & Zebra have the payment risk, hence the extra costs. Seem to recall when City ran our own scheme ran into problems with defaulters etc.