Salary Cap | Page 3 | Vital Football

Salary Cap

If everyone has to pay the same or similar wages up to £2.5m, won’t that mean transfer fees will rise up again so the bigger/wealthier clubs still end up with the best players as they can afford to pay the highest fees? Or is it the case that transfer fees will also come into the wage cap?
 
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You may have misunderstood Chris.
It’s the clubs that have voted for this.
It hasn’t been imposed by the EFL.
It’s the player’s union that is opposing it.
If they want to waste their members fees in a court case that’s up to them.
Basically it means that clubs in the same division are limited to what they are allowed to spend in players wages.
They can spend what they want on other things.
Just say for example, we sold Tucker next week for 5 million.
That would give our club security of knowing that the wage bill would be covered for a couple of years.
It should massively encourage clubs to grow players as under 21s don’t count.
A team can have a nucleus of established pros on decent wages with a back up of youngsters.
It should stop the likes of Sunderland paying one player the equivalent of their opponents squad.
I’d call that fairer and should also stop clubs overspending and going into admin.
I haven't misunderstood it I just feel that a club with double of treble the revenue might well challenge this.It will probably come from a club who were not able to vote(currently in a higher division.)Demanding they be allowed to spend their own money how they choose as long as they don't overspend. I don't see it is any business of other clubs.After all a teams at the bottom of the premier league will have a massively different budget to one at the top.People quoting American sports makes no difference as they have s totally different system all round.
 
While ever we have promotion and relegation throughout the leagues a single relegated club has little clout. They are in no position to dictate terms to the entire competition. Clubs have voted for this change because they have looked over the abyss and drawn back. Bury was a serious shock to many, who believed a league club would never tip over the edge. Today there are numbers of clubs that could head the same way if we carry on as we have been doing.

I'm still not convinced that some sort of Premiership 2 won't form by default as clubs go under. We will not be part of it in any event and our interests lie with a salary cap, whichever way the cookie crumbles.

As regards closed systems and the opportunity to play abroad; I don't think that affects our division much. Which other country boasts a thrd level competition with salaries to match ours? In most cases a player would need to be a squaqd player in a top league side, or a regular in some second tiers to earn a similar salary. Players come to England to try and attract the attenjtion of one of our big clubs in order to be paid handsomely. A very few might decide to stay at home.
 
Why is there any need for a salary cap? Because bosses of football clubs pay more than they can afford. A football club is a business if it's not run as such by the owners their business will go under, as any other business would. That's what running any business is about, making ends meet. What an EFL salary cap says is that owners want someone else to put in place something to limit their ability to spend, as they can't do it themselves.

Don't see how this will stand up in court as ultimately you're restricting someone's ability to earn their maximum worth because of the cap, especially at the bigger (higher paying) clubs with bigger squads.

Going to be a bit of a pisser for SE too, he might have to stop using "the lowest budget in the league" line.

Don't doubt it will level the competition, but having some 'big boy's to beat in the league is what we've done well at over the years. Can't honestly see it ending in anything other than the court's tbh.
 
I reiterate, no individual player can be restricted on earnings so no player can claim any kind of discrimination.
It’s a squad cap.
Pay one more, pay another less.
Can’t see any problem with that.
 
I reiterate, no individual player can be restricted on earnings so no player can claim any kind of discrimination.
It’s a squad cap.
Pay one more, pay another less.
Can’t see any problem with that.

But if you have a bigger squad say 25-30 (as the bigger clubs in our league do) players you have to pay the players less than if you have a squad of 20 players like the small clubs in our league do.

That in the long term will restrict a players ability to earn the maximum amount at the bigger clubs, and they'll be the ones who challenge it, no the Wimbledons, Gills or Accringtons.
 
The £2.5m for league one as I understand it includes Players wages, any bonuses, signing on fees, national insurance contributions and any relocation expenses.

Not included are Promotion bonuses, management and coaching salaries and TRANSFER FEES.
 
Not necessarily. That 2.5m is the maximum any club is allowed to spend, there's nothing to say that all clubs have to be spending that much.
In the NFL (which is being put forward as a successful use of the cap) there is a minimum spend too. Teams need to spend a certain percentage of the salary cap
 
The £2.5m for league one as I understand it includes Players wages, any bonuses, signing on fees, national insurance contributions and any relocation expenses.

Not included are Promotion bonuses, management and coaching salaries and TRANSFER FEES.
Exactly so all it means is fees will go up again and less money will go to the players in wages.
 
Exactly so all it means is fees will go up again and less money will go to the players in wages.
That is a point a club with a larger income will be more likely to buy players with extra funding. Which could perhaps help smaller clubs financially. Be interesting to see how it pans out .I still think it will come up against problems legally but in many ways I hope it works and saves clubs .But if the fit a proper person was running all the clubs you would probably not need stuff like this at all.
 
I like the system. By all means spend what you like on transfer fees - but if you have to abide by a squad salary cap then you’re not going to be spending loads. You’re not going to spend millions on transfer fees because you won’t be able to give them much wages unless you only have the one or two marquee signings.

By my reading the current contracts (ie Sunderland players already on loads per week) are fine, and for the next few seasons they’ll be treated as players on the average salary. Including relegated teams. Sensible.

With any luck the money saved in salaries can go to reducing these clubs’ debts.

I’m concerned that the PFA think it’s illegal by not consulting them - we know they’ll never agree to this.

If the Championship introduce one and it holds then I’ll be ecstatic. If the Prem do one, it’ll be the best thing done in recent years for English football. It won’t happen though.

In terms of the NFL I’m always amazed at the ‘dead money’ - teams have tens of millions of cap space which they can’t use as the money was used or is being used to pay players who the club have released.
 
I was just about to post saying something along those lines myself.

I get the arguments about levelling up the competition, and making things more interesting. From the point of view of the players, though, unless I'm misunderstanding things, they've basically got no say in where they end up playing (to start with at least, I don't know whether once they're more established they get more of a choice?). What's the interest for them in being told "You've got to go and play for Swindon" (for example)? And that's without taking into account the issue ThreeSixes mentions of the number of different leagues/countries available to them, something which I would imagine isn't necessarily the case (certainly not to the same extent) with sports such as NFL, NHL, etc., where those sports aren't played in as many countries.

The other thing I don't understand is that such a system appears to be rewarding failure. Is there not a risk that near the end of the season, once a team realises they have no chance of winning anything, they'll decide to lose all their remaining matches to finish as low as possible in order to have a better pick in the following season's draft?

I say all of that as someone with absolutely zero knowledge of American (or Australian) sports. Maybe there's a perfectly valid reason why the above aren't really an issue, if that's the case, feel free to put me right.

Madrid, 3x6, Chris and others all raise very valid points about why a salary cap won’t work well in English Football.

Yes, having other leagues and other counties (basically more options) might mean players will simply play elsewhere. In Aussie Rules and most USA sports, they don’t have that option.

Yes, young players are traded into a particular club and have little say. It is a problem here because often the best player(s) ie No1 draft pick stays at the original club the required 2 years, they develop him, then he is traded and goes off to his preferred club. By “preferred club” I mean the club that gives him the most money. Players play for their “preferred club” in all sports approximately 1% of the time.

Actually that’s not quite true. Here in Oz, quite a lot of players do request to get traded to their “home” team, or their supported team. But they end up with less bargaining power and probably less wages when they do that.

The problem of poor teams in a season basically aiming to finish last (tanking we call it) IS an issue here. But there is quite a stigma attached to it and it doesn’t appear to happen regularly. But probably happens. That said, it’s not a massive gain to finish last. We are talking about the best player v 2nd best player (or 19th v 20th). So unless there is a real standout youngster available, it doesn’t matter. But generally over a few years, poorer teams get better players in.

Oh, and someone mentioned transfer fees. There are no transfer fees here in AFL. All transfers are by draft. ie player swaps or you get the other teams picks at the next draft. So a poorer team that year has better draft picks available to them to trade for current established players at other clubs (if they chose).

The other thing as I said before, none of this can work if the individual clubs and players are not willing to make it work. And if the central governing body is not strong. How strong is the EFL? Oh......
 
The problem of tanking is an issue in the NFL too - there’s calls to ‘Tank for Trevor’ this season to bag Clemson Quarterback Trevor Lawrence. Ask any coach and they’ll say the more losses you have the more difficult it is to turn your luck around, and coaches will still lose their job the moment they finish a season with a horrid record. They also don’t have the threat of relegation like we do.
 
The problem of tanking is an issue in the NFL too - there’s calls to ‘Tank for Trevor’ this season to bag Clemson Quarterback Trevor Lawrence. Ask any coach and they’ll say the more losses you have the more difficult it is to turn your luck around, and coaches will still lose their job the moment they finish a season with a horrid record. They also don’t have the threat of relegation like we do.
That is true, when there’s the threat of relegation there’s no threat of tanking. And the fact coaches and players careers are negatively affected means they don’t want to be involved in that kind of thing other.

Anyway, drafting isn’t being proposed in football is it? So not an issue there.

Pity, because draft season is excellent over here. Like the transfer season on steroids. Some of the trades are very, very complex. Team A might want player X from team B but there’s no straight swap the other team wants. So it ends up being player X gets traded via teams b, c, d and e with players x, z and p involved in trades and 15 different draft picks going various ways.

Great fun for the fans. Unless they don’t get their player....
 
Anyway, drafting isn’t being proposed in football is it?
Nor not could it really.After all drafting depends on scouts looking out the best youth players.If that was the case in the UK there would be no point in youth development by clubs .So the quality of players would drop.To make it work it would need massive funds for some sort of central coaching academy.
 
Nor not could it really.After all drafting depends on scouts looking out the best youth players.If that was the case in the UK there would be no point in youth development by clubs .So the quality of players would drop.To make it work it would need massive funds for some sort of central coaching academy.

It wouldn’t work, no. But I don’t think for the reasons you say mate.

Over here, AFL clubs all have academies and nurture young players. But the good players coming out of them don’t necessarily go to those particular clubs. They are all in the draft. You can draft a player from another clubs academy. But you’d obviously have better ties and allure for a good player in your own academy.

All those young players (going into a draft) spend their years in junior football playing for regular clubs, U16, U18 teams and area representative teams and feeder/reserve clubs.

They don’t just sit and rot away in AFL reserve teams until spat out at age 24.
 
Lancs, AFL here in Oz works in a very similar way.

Strict salary cap rules and a draft system to get youngsters. The lowest teams get the first picks.

These two aspects pretty much ensure that every team over a period of time can have success. Teams that are currently struggling will get better players in for the future. Teams doing well will find their own players have more currency (are better) and may have to be offloaded to keep their wage bill down.

I think just about every one of the 18 teams has had some sort of success over the past 20-30 years. But also the clubs with the best culture, facilities, coaching etc can have a few more repeated successes.

I think it works a lot better than the football model of team with richest owner (nearly always) wins.

The thing is, it needs a strong central governing body, and a list of clubs that are willing to adhere to the common good, not just their own needs.

I don’t think English football has those things.


Yes, sounds similar OSK. Whilst there are always exceptions, in general, N/American clubs often have cyclical era`s of success based on how ell they have Drafted. But, drafting is not the only way into the NHL etc - teams can sign Free Agents - if they haven`t been drafted or the draft tenure has expired.

You`re right when you say there needs to be a strong governing body in control of the process - that`s certainly the case in N/America.
 
I was just about to post saying something along those lines myself.

I get the arguments about levelling up the competition, and making things more interesting. From the point of view of the players, though, unless I'm misunderstanding things, they've basically got no say in where they end up playing (to start with at least, I don't know whether once they're more established they get more of a choice?). What's the interest for them in being told "You've got to go and play for Swindon" (for example)? And that's without taking into account the issue ThreeSixes mentions of the number of different leagues/countries available to them, something which I would imagine isn't necessarily the case (certainly not to the same extent) with sports such as NFL, NHL, etc., where those sports aren't played in as many countries.

The other thing I don't understand is that such a system appears to be rewarding failure. Is there not a risk that near the end of the season, once a team realises they have no chance of winning anything, they'll decide to lose all their remaining matches to finish as low as possible in order to have a better pick in the following season's draft?

I say all of that as someone with absolutely zero knowledge of American (or Australian) sports. Maybe there's a perfectly valid reason why the above aren't really an issue, if that's the case, feel free to put me right.


Understandable concerns, Madrid. The system in N/America is tried and tested and has evolved well.

Regarding players not having any say where they play, that`s true in some regards but not in all. Pro`s in the NHL, especially in their early years, accept that they might be part of a trade which could send them anywhere in the USA or Canada - they know it`s the system and accept it. That said they (their agents) would negotiate salary and terms etc. so it`s not totally one sided. Players there have agents and are also very well protected by the powerful Players Association (PA). In the NHL there is an NHLPA and nothing is agreed by the governing body without meaningful consultation with the NHLPA. Players can have clauses written into their contracts that basically allow them to agree or not agree to go to certain NHL teams, or to put it another way, state a list of teams they`d be willing to be traded to. Some players negotiate No Trade clauses. There are also time limits on contracts that allow players to become fully in charge of their status and where, if anywhere, they`d like to play. As I alluded to the person that asked me the initial question, it is complex but there is also a fair amount of flexibility involved. There`s a lot of reading on the subject !

Regarding "rewarding failure" - the NHL avoids so called "tanking" by not automatically awarding the team that finishes bottom in the regular season the first overall pick in the First round of the Draft. They introduced a weighted lottery system whereby First overall pick could be awarded to any team that finishes near the foot of the table.

It works well in N/America as the whole infra-structure, including pay and player movement, is regulated and enforced.

For football here, we can have a salary cap regime without having to employ a trading system to run alongside. The issue around salary cap that may have far reaching connotations is which governing body will ultimately control salary capping. There may be no reason at all why the F.A. could not govern the Cap in England and Wales. If they can do that and include the Premiership in the system then brilliant. But, you cant help wondering that the ultimate arbiter might need to be EUFA or FIFA ! How would that work ! It may take quite a few years to implement a successful system across the board, but in the meantime, there are probably other leagues around Europe thinking that salary cap could be the saviour of many of their teams. The Cap is here to stay.