Russian Agent. | Page 3 | Vital Football

Russian Agent.

Nick Real Deal - 16/3/2018 14:20

The wording strongly suggests Russia but....likely stops short of direct accusation. If the wording was....it was Russia and we have proof....then more robust action can be taken. Proof may yet be disclosed and I hope it is.

Russia's reaction also suggests guilt with arrogant and dismissive dialogue.

I of course realise these agents have fingerprints, so why have we not advised the public of that proof. ?

I think Russia did It, I have no respect for their regime, I want it brought down, the proof is needed until tougher measures are justified, I hope we get it.

Sorry Nick, I didn't mean people fingerprints - I meant the forensic fingerprint of the nerve agent - it's a direct match for Russian nerve agent group that they developed - and you simply can't or wouldn't be able to 'spoof' that in chemical speciation and bioavailability / composition under a chemcial spectroscopy where you can identify it's component parts at a molecular level, and when you can do that you can acutely figure out who produced what constituent parts and often with great accuracy - where.
 
Nick Real Deal - 16/3/2018 14:27

Go away and shut up is not very convincing is it ?

It was utterly pathetic.

But it also shows how impotent we now are and Putin knows it.
 
Yes Ex, I knew about the chemical fingerprint. I didn't visualize some dabs on a glass test tube left at the scene !!!!

Seriously though with such a complex agent which has to be mixed before use and of varying strengths or types you are right. It is possible to attribute the source. I understand that...so highly likely...shouldn't need to be said. Unless that's diplomatic talk designed to buy some time ?

I think the code number may have been disclosed now because the Russian ambassador mentioned it. A 234 or something like that.

If the murder of Glushkov proves to be Russian agents , the travel of such operatives needs to stop.

 
Novichok: nerve agent produced at only one site in Russia, says expert

Chemical that poisoned Sergei Skripal and daughter in Salisbury originates from Shikhany, says Hamish de Bretton-Gordon

Ewen MacAskill Defence and security correspondent

Wed 14 Mar 2018 18.58 GMT
Last modified on Wed 14 Mar 2018 22.00 GMT


The nerve agent novichok was developed and produced in Shikhany, home of a military research establishment in central Russia, according to a chemical weapons expert. Hamish de Bretton-Gordon said the information was contained in a report submitted several years ago by Russia to the international body that monitors chemical weapons, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

The UK government has asked the OPCW to investigate the use of novichok in the attempted murder of the Russian former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury.

Theresa May said in a Commons statement on Wednesday: “We are working with the police to enable the OPCW to independently verify our analysis.”

The OPCW is expected to arrive in the UK shortly. The onus would then be on the organisation to visit Russia to see if there are stockpiles of novichok and, if found, to oversee their destruction. If Russia insists it has no such stockpiles, it could lead to an international standoff and diplomatic wrangling at the United Nations.

What is novichok?

Bretton-Gordon said: “The OPCW must get to Salisbury as soon as possible for an independent investigation and then go to Russia to visit the site. If they [Russia] have nothing to hide, why would they veto it? It would be an admission of guilt. I think Putin has made his first big mistake in a long time.”

Shikhany is the Russian equivalent of the UK’s Porton Down, home to various military research facilities that specialise in radiation, chemical and other weaponry.

Bretton-Gordon, a former commander of the now disbanded UK Chemical, Biological, Radiation and Nuclear regiment and its Nato equivalent, said Shikhany was the sole location for development and production of novichok, dismissing suggestions that the chemical could be found in other places in the former Soviet Union such as Ukraine and Uzbekistan.

“They have no more anywhere else,” he said.

Bretton-Gordon’s assertion about Shikhany is supported by Vil Mirzayanov, a Russian former chemist who worked on the novichok programme before defecting to the US. In his book State Secrets: An Insider’s Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Programme, he said novichok was developed between 1971 and 1973 by Petr Kirpichev, a senior scientist at Skikhany.

According to Mirzayanov, there were several laboratories where nerve agents such as ricin were made.


The 192-member OPCW was set up to police a convention banning chemical weapons. Both the UK and Russia are signatories to the convention. If Russia was to block an investigation, theoretically the OPCW could take the issue to the UN security council, where Russia has a veto. It also has the option of taking it to the UN general assembly, where there is no such veto.

The issue could go all the way to the international court of justice for resolution. But the OPCW has a reputation for being slow, overly bureaucratic and risk-averse, reluctant to become engaged in political confrontations.

Asked whether the OPCW had agreed to the UK’s request to investigate, the OPCW replied in an email: “OPCW Public Affairs has no information about this at the moment.”

Nato expressed deep concern at what it said was the first offensive use of nerve agent on a Nato member’s territory since its foundation after the second world war. It called on Russia “to address the UK’s questions, including providing full and complete disclosure of the novichok programme to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons”.
 
14 suspicious deaths of Russian interest are having their cases reviewed after being swept under the carpet by our authorities. Either put down to unexplained or suicide or heart attacks. All had fallen foul of Russia in some way.

Why were they not investigated properly in the first place ?
 
Nick Real Deal - 16/3/2018 18:24

14 suspicious deaths of Russian interest are having their cases reviewed after being swept under the carpet by our authorities. Either put down to unexplained or suicide or heart attacks. All had fallen foul of Russia in some way.

Why were they not investigated properly in the first place ?

Good question.

Russians are basking in Putin's glorious election win and his superiority over the west and how he is now making the West his plaything.

The atmosphere out there towards the English has I've been told by my Moscow contact turned very nasty and he said there are those who now see any English supporters that turn up for the World Cup as 'fair game' as they 'must' know that they are going to 'get some' (all his words) his advice to me was 'stay away' the authorities are going to turn a blind eye when it matters and they'll be looking to make Scapegoats out of English supporters that defend themselves with very very long sentences.

So even the quarter final and semi final tickets he has, won;t be enough to tempt me to go now.
 
Big Chiv - 19/3/2018 19:48

So glad the gooners got drawn against CSKA in the waifer :15:

They'll probably be ok as it's a club, but come the World Cup, supporting England in some of these places is going to make you a real target.

The Russians out there, are positively promoting it as a great target to teach the English a 'lesson'.
 
The British Safety diplomat in Russia has been sent home. He would have been working on the prevention of violence involving England fans.
 
Nick Real Deal - 21/3/2018 22:02

The British Safety diplomat in Russia has been sent home. He would have been working on the prevention of violence involving England fans.

Told you - any English fan now has a target painted on his back and he or she is going to get fully stitched up, they're even beginning to target English businessmen already, one very large International business I know have just banned any of their staff going there for the foreseeable future, as they've been informed by their Russian colleagues that they have credible intelligence they are going to be targeted, set-up, charged and put on a show trial...
 
yet more evidence of who is pulling Corbyn's strings - no wonder he now won't comment on it all and just wants it to 'go away'...



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-spy-intelligence-information-russia-a8276781.html


Britain divulged “unprecedented levels of intelligence” to other countries in order to convince them that Vladimir Putin’s Russia had carried out the first nerve agent attack in Europe since the Second World War.

The material provided to the allies included sensitive reports and the conclusions of the military research base at Porton Down, as well as an explanation of how these were obtained. The information senior government officials hold was key to 23 states and Nato carrying out a mass expulsion this week of over a hundred Russians working under diplomatic credentials.

Highly classified information which is normally shared only between the “Five Eyes” countries – UK, US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada - was supplied to close allies with national security adviser, Sir Mark Sedwill, taking it to the European Union and the North Atlantic Council. Other countries were given differing levels of intelligence to show alleged Russian culpability.

Jeremy Corbyn, who attracted controversy by asking for more proof of Russia’s responsibility for the attempted assassinations, was, as a privy councillor, shown the same intelligence as supplied to the allied states and also the UK’s National Security council.

“We have”, acknowledged a senior Whitehall official, “shared unprecedented levels of intelligence with partners.” The information from the UK was deliberately shared with policy makers rather than just security chiefs abroad to “show there was no other plausible explanation for responsibility other than the Russian state”. At the same time there was a concerted diplomatic offensive by embassies abroad.

Not all countries provided with the intelligence have kicked out Russian diplomats. Unlike the others in the Five Eyes” network, New Zealand refused to take similar action with Jacinda Ardern, the prime minister, saying: “We have done a check in New Zealand. We don’t have Russian undeclared intelligence officers. If we did, we would expel them.”
 
It has been suggested the highest concentration of the agent has been found on Skirpals front door. So how long did it take for the agent to work ? It seems hours, unless they were poisoned in town and the door had been laced aswell as a back up .
 
Ex - in what way is this a statement by a man having his strings pulled by Putin?

"Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption,” he said.

“However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a ‘new cold war’ of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent.”

Corbyn backed May’s decision to expel 23 diplomats, but suggested a financial crackdown on Russian oligarchs would be more effective.

“We agree with the government’s action in relation to Russian diplomats, but measures to tackle the oligarchs and their loot would have a far greater impact on Russia’s elite than limited tit-for-tat expulsions,” he said.

I don't love Corbyn but feel this media reaction to him preaching caution against a 2nd cold war is way ott - as are most things about Corbyn. Even the BBC photoshopped him to look more Russian then denied it lol
 
freundorfoe - 29/3/2018 03:14

Ex - in what way is this a statement by a man having his strings pulled by Putin?

"Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption,” he said.

“However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a ‘new cold war’ of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent.”

Corbyn backed May’s decision to expel 23 diplomats, but suggested a financial crackdown on Russian oligarchs would be more effective.

“We agree with the government’s action in relation to Russian diplomats, but measures to tackle the oligarchs and their loot would have a far greater impact on Russia’s elite than limited tit-for-tat expulsions,” he said.

I don't love Corbyn but feel this media reaction to him preaching caution against a 2nd cold war is way ott - as are most things about Corbyn. Even the BBC photoshopped him to look more Russian then denied it lol

All you can say to that is, 'finally'.

Appeasement, never wins or avoids anything and for too long he's made excuses for how both the Soviet Union and the Russians have behaved - the statement above was a last desperate attempt to reverse the damage he'd self-inflicted...
 
So Russia have used polonium, strangling and nerve agent to assassinate people on British soil, I'm sure there were other methods used too.

They have cheated in athletics with state funded doping. Probably got the world cup by underhanded means. Interfered with elections. Have a leader who no doubt got elected suspiciously. Have a poor racist record which has again raised its ugly head.Have suspect human rights standards.

How can the world let the World cup go ahead. ? Is it safe for England fans ? Media, players etc ?

From a moral standpoint should we be sending a team over there ? Should some players take a stand and refuse to go ? Should Southgate refuse to go.?

 
Nick Real Deal - 29/3/2018 17:23

So Russia have used polonium, strangling and nerve agent to assassinate people on British soil, I'm sure there were other methods used too.

They have cheated in athletics with state funded doping. Probably got the world cup by underhanded means. Interfered with elections. Have a leader who no doubt got elected suspiciously. Have a poor racist record which has again raised its ugly head.Have suspect human rights standards.

How can the world let the World cup go ahead. ? Is it safe for England fans ? Media, players etc ?

From a moral standpoint should we be sending a team over there ? Should some players take a stand and refuse to go ? Should Southgate refuse to go.?

The standard defence that is always trotted out is sports shouldn't be used as a football for politics (excuse the pun).

I'd stop England going, but only if we can persuade others to do the same, what I would be doing is not just warning England fans to avoid discussing politics, I'd be warning them to stay clear.
 
I would refuse to play as an individual and let everyone else make their own minds up. If I were Southgate I would step down in protest for England even daring to take part.

No dignitaries will attend, including Prince William who represents the FA I think. That is the correct reaction. If our Royal Family and other officials are taking a stand, so should everyone else.
 
Nick Real Deal - 28/3/2018 23:30

It has been suggested the highest concentration of the agent has been found on Skirpals front door. So how long did it take for the agent to work ? It seems hours, unless they were poisoned in town and the door had been laced aswell as a back up .


This just shows the depth of disregard to any humans these people have. This has left a whole host of other innocent people exposed to this nerve agent and life changing conditions .


..............I bet the postman is well chuffed
 
Well worth an hour of your time. This is fascinating.

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