Rotherham in the Championship

Lindum

Lindum

Vital Football Legend
I was thinking about the season Chesterfield are having and, at first, it made me think that you cannot have league success without failure, that Chesterfield could not be enjoying such a season had they not slipped down (and out) of the leagues. I then thought that success is self-limiting in that every successful club (with a few mega-rich exceptions) reaches a level where it inevitably struggles. We all know that many people associated with RUFC feel we cannot compete in the Championship.
But (and it's a qualified but) that hypothesis would normally suggest a heirarchy of clubs in each division with top clubs, mid-table and strugglers. That holds good for any particular season. However, having visited club sites and fan forums I get the impression that the attitude of many RUFC fans is not widely shared. Every other club in the Championship - even the Owls, Huddersfield and QPR - has a prevailing attitude amongst the fans that success is not only achievable but is an absolute requirement. Fans of clubs like Birmingham, Stoke, Bristol City, Blackburn, even Millwall, think that they have reasonable prospects in the next season or two of challenging for at least a play-off place. Admittedly, many of these have bigger fan bases but it's very clear that for the majority of Championship clubs and their fans survival is not an end in itself but a launch pad for future success.
 
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Several aspects to our problem- where money has been spent, players haven't really lived up to the billing, signed too many crocks, still stuck with poor players who were signed by previous managers who can't be offloaded because no other clubs want them.

We really need to bring through our own youngsters and reserves, like we did in the 1960's. Need a much better youth system, playing higher ranking opponents. When our young players go out on loan , they are currently going to non-league clubs, not even at National League level. Are they likely to ever make it to Championship level? Until that changes we will struggle in the Championship.
 
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Lindum said:
I was thinking about the season Chesterfield are having and, at first, it made me think that you cannot have league success without failure, that Chesterfield could not be enjoying such a season had they not slipped down (and out) of the leagues. I then thought that success is self-limiting in that every successful club (with a few mega-rich exceptions) reaches a level where it inevitably struggles. We all know that many people associated with RUFC feel we cannot compete in the Championship.
But (and it's a qualified but) that hypothesis would normally suggest a heirarchy of clubs in each division with top clubs, mid-table and strugglers. That holds good for any particular season. However, having visited club sites and fan forums I get the impression that the attitude of many RUFC fans is not widely shared. Every other club in the Championship - even the Owls, Huddersfield and QPR - has a prevailing attitude amongst the fans that success is not only achievable but is an absolute requirement. Fans of clubs like Birmingham, Stoke, Bristol City, Blackburn, even Millwall, think that they have reasonable prospects in the next season or two of challenging for at least a play-off place. Admittedly, many of these have bigger fan bases but it's very clear that for the majority of Championship clubs and their fans survival is not an end in itself but a launch pad for future success.
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I get fed of hearing that quote..” we can’t compete “.

Our 3 wins at home this season are Norwich, Coventry and Middlesbrough.
We’ve taken a point off Ipswich, Leeds, Preston, QPR, Sunderland, Southampton, Birmingham, Middlesbrough , Blackburn ( twice ),
competed in all of those matches.
Scored two away at Plymouth and still lost.
Consistency is the key.
Chalk and cheese.
Some awful defending at times, conceding goals early, just on half time , just after half time and at the end of the game.

There’s a big difference between ‘ can’t compete’ and can’t defend or do the basics.
We need to see the game out to half time/ full time rather than capitulation.
We need to get the best out of what we have.

There’s some decent players in our squad.
AMBITION.
 
mikemiller said:
We really need to bring through our own youngster and reserves, like we did in the 1960's. Need a much better youth system, playing higher ranking opponents. When our young players go out on loan , they are currently going to non-league clubs, not even at National League level. Are they likely to ever make it to Championship level? Until that changes we will struggle in the Championship.
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I can't agree more, Mike.

I was sure Paul Warne would bring in a good Youth/Reserve team but that never materialised. We have the Academy which is a good thing but after that it's like the players are in the wilderness until they are good enough for first team play - which they won't ever be because they don't get to play first team football.
 
Guy_Branston said:
I get fed of hearing that quote..” we can’t compete “.
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I don't think it's the club that can't compete in the Championship tbh I think a lot of it is down to the players we fetch in. Although, as you say, Guy, I do believe we have the bones of a good team. Of course, that will probably change at the end of the season as I expect many to leave or be 'let go'. But is that a bad thing? It means Leam Richardson will be able to fetch in the players he wants to build a team with. The only thing we've then got to do is give Richardson a chance and not sack him because some of the fans call for his head.
 
I agree with Guy about mistakes and a failure to get the basics right. I still look at this team and with about three honourable exceptions think that the players are potentially much better than they show, or at least show consistently. The midfield in particular has quality that does not often show up in games.
Recruitment of forwards under Warne and Taylor was for me something of a disaster.
I agree also with Mike on the weakness of our youth system. At present other than supplying NL teams with players I'm not sure what it is supposed to achieve. And as Caz says PW identified the need but we didn't take it forward.
If we go down I hope Craig is right. 100 points would be nice. I suspect though we'll lose some good players and find that L1 has moved on in terms of investment and quality. I think the gods of football may say that Rotherham has had more than its fair share of chances in the Championship and doom us to a longish stay in the underworld.
 
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We’re stuck in a cycle of overachieving in League 1 and underachieving in the Championship.
When we first made it back to the Championship we as a group said to achieve mid- table safety and get established in this league would take more investment.
I’m not knocking the Chairman, the club is a sustainable business which has to be subsidised on occasions to survive.
More often than not RUFC is running at a loss.
Infrastructure off the field has improved unfortunately on the pitch we seem to make one step forward and two steps backwards.

We need to sell one / two players a season at a decent profit to move forwards.

The Academy won’t get back to what it was in the 60’s and the 70’s when in the 70’s we had nine local lads in the team / squad.

A friend of one of my Grandkids is a goalkeeper, a decent prospect.
Last year Liverpool were scouting him.
If teams like Liverpool and others are in the area we don’t stand a chance.
 
Luke Griffin did an interesting piece on academies a few years ago on the back of Brentford's decision to close theirs. He concluded that for most clubs they are a poor investment and pointed out that Premier League clubs release hundreds of youngsters from their academies who form a pool of potential recruits for lower league clubs. He also mentioned Guy's point that the best youngsters won't be available to their local small club academies anyway. What is the cost at RUFC and how many staff are employed? Close it and spend some of the money on scouting and recruitment might make more sense.
 
Guy_Branston said:
We’re stuck in a cycle of overachieving in League 1 and underachieving in the Championship.
When we first made it back to the Championship we as a group said to achieve mid- table safety and get established in this league would take more investment.
I’m not knocking the Chairman, the club is a sustainable business which has to be subsidised on occasions to survive.
More often than not RUFC is running at a loss.
Infrastructure off the field has improved unfortunately on the pitch we seem to make one step forward and two steps backwards.

We need to sell one / two players a season at a decent profit to move forwards.

The Academy won’t get back to what it was in the 60’s and the 70’s when in the 70’s we had nine local lads in the team / squad.

A friend of one of my Grandkids is a goalkeeper, a decent prospect.
Last year Liverpool were scouting him.
If teams like Liverpool and others are in the area we don’t stand a chance.
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I agree with your post but at present, Viktor excepted, we have very little in the way of player assets to sell that would generate major income to fund new signings. Way back in the early 60’s Wolves, then a very top club, had an academy team based in Wath upon Dearne ( I think) and yet we coped well enough with competing in Division 2, equivalent of the Championship? They recruited many of the better prospects in the area but we still managed to bring in some great youngsters.
 
axholme said:
I agree with your post but at present, Viktor excepted, we have very little in the way of player assets to sell that would generate major income to fund new signings. Way back in the early 60’s Wolves, then a very top club, had an academy team based in Wath upon Dearne ( I think) and yet we coped well enough with competing in Division 2, equivalent of the Championship? They recruited many of the better prospects in the area but we still managed to bring in some great youngsters.
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And there was a team in Rotherham that used to get players in for Leeds United - their name might come to me if I think about it long enough.
 
axholme said:
I agree with your post but at present, Viktor excepted, we have very little in the way of player assets to sell that would generate major income to fund new signings. ** Way back in the early 60’s Wolves, then a very top club, had an academy team based in Wath upon Dearne ( I think) *** and yet we coped well enough with competing in Division 2, equivalent of the Championship? They recruited many of the better prospects in the area but we still managed to bring in some great youngsters.
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You will be thinking about Wath Wanderers ax.
Some good youngsters came through the youth system there.
I’m sure Steve Daley and Alan Sunderland and plenty of others came through the system at Wath- upon - Dearne .

Agree about Victor being the major asset.
Then you have to reinvest that cash in better quality players.
 
Lindum said:
Luke Griffin did an interesting piece on academies a few years ago on the back of Brentford's decision to close theirs. He concluded that for most clubs they are a poor investment and pointed out that Premier League clubs release hundreds of youngsters from their academies who form a pool of potential recruits for lower league clubs. He also mentioned Guy's point that the best youngsters won't be available to their local small club academies anyway.
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Lindum said:
What is the cost at RUFC and how many staff are employed? Close it and spend some of the money on scouting and recruitment might make more sense.
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Back in 2019 / 20 season we received cash from the Premier League.
£650k in ‘ core ‘ payments plus….

Rotherham United were also handed £430,000 to help the running of their academy, while £135,000 was given to the club for their work in the local community.
 
Rotherham's academy is graded category 3 and there are larger, better-resourced ones on their doorstep.
Leeds United, Nottingham Forest and Derby County are category 1 .
Whilst Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley and Hull City are rated 2.

Nat Ford ( Goalkeeper) son of Millers goalkeeper Stuart is a decent prospect and he’s a local lad.
Joel Holvey was released by Middlesbrough a couple of years ago, plenty of clubs scouting him back then.
Noticed Curtis Durose is back at the club and training with the first team.
Our home grown player for the bench perhaps.?
 
Guy_Branston said:
Rotherham's academy is graded category 3 and there are larger, better-resourced ones on their doorstep.
Leeds United, Nottingham Forest and Derby County are category 1 .
Whilst Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley and Hull City are rated 2.

Nat Ford ( Goalkeeper) son of Millers goalkeeper Stuart is a decent prospect and he’s a local lad.
Joel Holvey was released by Middlesbrough a couple of years ago, plenty of clubs scouting him back then.
Noticed Curtis Durose is back at the club and training with the first team.
Our home grown player for the bench perhaps.?
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Cheers, Guy. I had no idea the academy system was so complex. Having read the criteria for different gradings I'm not much wiser. I can see a kind of community involvement aspect to our academy and if it's largely funded fair enough. But it doesn't seem to function particularly as a pathway for us to develop players for the first team which is what I (wrongly) assumed it was for.
 
I sometimes forget just how small a club we are in the Championship in terms of support. Bottom and the next lowest attendance is 50% up on us. Interestingly (to me) 4 of the top 5 best supported clubs occupy the top 4 spots with Sunderland being the exception. In L1 the best 3 supported clubs occupy the top 3 positions. In L2 however there is no discernible correlation and Bradford City, by far the 'biggest' club are standout underachievers. Next season in L1 allowing for some drop-off in attendances (particularly from away fans) I reckon we will be around 8th or 9th best supported club. We are not a Championship club in any real sense which is fair enough. It's just so painful having to endure these seasons when an almost delusional optimism quickly unravels. I can't see a solution really. Perhaps if the top 6 in the Prem joined a Super League and the Prem was reformulated to include the top 6 Championship clubs and so on down we might do better?
 
Lindum said:
I sometimes forget just how small a club we are in the Championship in terms of support. Bottom and the next lowest attendance is 50% up on us. Interestingly (to me) 4 of the top 5 best supported clubs occupy the top 4 spots with Sunderland being the exception. In L1 the best 3 supported clubs occupy the top 3 positions. In L2 however there is no discernible correlation and Bradford City, by far the 'biggest' club are standout underachievers. Next season in L1 allowing for some drop-off in attendances (particularly from away fans) I reckon we will be around 8th or 9th best supported club. We are not a Championship club in any real sense which is fair enough. It's just so painful having to endure these seasons when an almost delusional optimism quickly unravels. I can't see a solution really. Perhaps if the top 6 in the Prem joined a Super League and the Prem was reformulated to include the top 6 Championship clubs and so on down we might do better?
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I might be wrong, but don't Bradford have really cheap season tickets?
 
I think that that did have some special "early bird" prices for their season tickets. They have a big stadium by L2 standards, and priced the season tickets to bring in big crowds. Builds supporter base for the future, club merchandise sales, catering, etc. That's in a city that they share with with Bradford Park Avenue too, and various other National league/NLN clubs like Halifax and Farsley nearby. Plus rugby league.
 
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