Response to Sincilbanks re politics and racism | Page 2 | Vital Football

Response to Sincilbanks re politics and racism

John Bigbooté said:
You're a verified idiot. I have no interest in discussing anything with a man who refuses to accept reality. Goodbye.
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:rofl:Oh look, insults already. You do know that the courts will apply the guidelines to all statues right? So if somebody sprayed a racial term on a statue of Nelson Mandela that only cost a tenner to clean up they would now be sentenced for the wider distress that caused rather than getting a caution or small fine. Perhaps you think those aggravating features are not relevant or maybe courts should only go lightly on people that damage the statues of people you personally don't like. Ah well I'll never know now.
 
hulloutpost said:
:rofl:Oh look, insults already. You do know that the courts will apply the guidelines to all statues right? So if somebody sprayed a racial term on a statue of Nelson Mandela that only cost a tenner to clean up they would now be sentenced for the wider distress that caused rather than getting a caution or small fine. Perhaps you think those aggravating features are not relevant or maybe courts should only go lightly on people that damage the statues of people you personally don't like. Ah well I'll never know now.
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You have insulted yourself far more than I have insulted you. Bye!
 
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hulloutpost said:
You misunderstand me. Racism has been made a political issue. It shouldn't be, I really rather it wasn't for the reasons I have explained previously.
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Racism has been a political issue since the first ruling body decided one group of people will be treated differently than another group of people, and you have to go wayyyyyyy back for that. It's been political ever since. It certainly hasn't been made a political issue by any BLM or other protestors, who are expressing their discontent and anger at racism, past, present, and sadly future.
 
LA_Imp said:
Racism has been a political issue since the first ruling body decided one group of people will be treated differently than another group of people, and you have to go wayyyyyyy back for that. It's been political ever since. It certainly hasn't been made a political issue by any BLM or other protestors, who are expressing their discontent and anger at racism, past, present, and sadly future.
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Agreed, it has been a political issue for far too long and an insidious tool to harvest votes and divide people across the spectrum; that is why it is part of the problem.
I'm not saying BLM have made it political themselves, it already was. I understand what they are trying to do, I just dislike the violence and intimidation they employ as part of that process. Some people condone violence for a cause, terrorism being the ultimate example of that. I'm not going to suggest that BLM are terrorists or some of their aims are an unjust cause but I will not condone their tactics.
That takes me back to why I would find it helpful to amend the taking of the knee which is associated with BLM and depoliticise the protest (stand against racism). That way I personally would be comfortable with both the cause and the manner of the protest.
 
hulloutpost said:
Agreed, it has been a political issue for far too long and an insidious tool to harvest votes and divide people across the spectrum; that is why it is part of the problem.
I'm not saying BLM have made it political themselves, it already was. I understand what they are trying to do, I just dislike the violence and intimidation they employ as part of that process. Some people condone violence for a cause, terrorism being the ultimate example of that. I'm not going to suggest that BLM are terrorists or some of their aims are an unjust cause but I will not condone their tactics.
That takes me back to why I would find it helpful to amend the taking of the knee which is associated with BLM and depoliticise the protest (stand against racism). That way I personally would be comfortable with both the cause and the manner of the protest.
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hulloutpost said:
You do know that the courts will apply the guidelines to all statues right? So if somebody sprayed a racial term on a statue of Nelson Mandela that only cost a tenner to clean up they would now be sentenced for the wider distress that caused rather than getting a caution or small fine.
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But the defacing of your imagined Mandela statue isn't why the law is changing, is it?

It's changing, in part, because of the defacing of statues that celebrate our morally questionable heritage.

Which, I suspect, suggests to supporters of BLM - as it suggests to me - that there might still be a problem with racism in this country. Despite what Boris's whitewashed inquiry says.
 
GoBC said:
But the defacing of your imagined Mandela statue isn't why the law is changing, is it?

It's changing, in part, because of the defacing of statues that celebrate our morally questionable heritage.

Which, I suspect, suggests to supporters of BLM - as it suggests to me - that there might still be a problem with racism in this country. Despite what Boris's whitewashed inquiry says.
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Believe it or not there are people who don't share your world view on Churchill and may be offended. Regardless, the law will apply to all commemorative monuments and sentences can be expected to be applied fairly by the independent judiciary whether it's Churchill or Mandela. That's what is supposed to happen in a free democracy.
Of course there is a problem with racism. There always will be just as there will be sex offenders, fraudsters and so on. The law and societal attitudes constantly adapt to reflect what is appropriate to the day or are steps in the evolution.

We have seen huge beneficial changes and are heading in the right direction. If you don't believe me look at the UK in the 70's. Nobody ever said we have reached the final destination and I would rather we got there with less violence, thank you very much.
 
hulloutpost said:
Believe it or not there are people who don't share your world view on Churchill and may be offended. Regardless, the law will apply to all commemorative monuments and sentences can be expected to be applied fairly by the independent judiciary whether it's Churchill or Mandela. That's what is supposed to happen in a free democracy.
Of course there is a problem with racism. There always will be just as there will be sex offenders, fraudsters and so on. The law and societal attitudes constantly adapt to reflect what is appropriate to the day or are steps in the evolution.

We have seen huge beneficial changes and are heading in the right direction. If you don't believe me look at the UK in the 70's. Nobody ever said we have reached the final destination and I would rather we got there with less violence, thank you very much.
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We are only where we are because the establishment has been dragged kicking and screaming along on the back of violent protest. We almost certainly won't make any more significant progress without more violent protest, because our establishment has no interest in upending the status quo...
 
hulloutpost said:

This is low level stuff compared to some of the BLM tactics but suffices for the point I wish to make. All I will say is, are people who are subjected to this approach more or less likely to be sympathetic to your cause and be inspired to do something positive.
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Meanwhile the families, colleagues and friends of those protestors continue to be shot and imprisoned under false pretences on a daily basis...
 
Sincilbanks said:
We are only where we are because the establishment has been dragged kicking and screaming along on the back of violent protest. We almost certainly won't make any more significant progress without more violent protest, because our establishment has no interest in upending the status quo...
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It would appear we disagree strongly on how positive change has been achieved in recent years and the appropriate direction for the future.
 
Sincilbanks said:
Meanwhile the families, colleagues and friends of those protestors continue to be shot and imprisoned under false pretences on a daily basis...
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So being angry, violent, vengeful, divisive is going to help that cause. I think not. As per my previous entry comment, we will simply have to disagree.
 
hulloutpost said:
So being angry, violent, vengeful, divisive is going to help that cause. I think not. As per my previous entry comment, we will simply have to disagree.
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They have no other option, meanwhile you look on from the comfort of your supposedly lofty perspective, talking down to them with the apparent high principles of the privileged and absolutely no understanding whatsoever. Just another white person telling them how to behave and stay in their place from the comfort of their armchair...
 
Sincilbanks said:
They have no other option, meanwhile you look on from the comfort of your supposedly lofty perspective, talking down to them with the apparent high principles of the privileged and absolutely no understanding whatsoever. Just another white person telling them how to behave and stay in their place from the comfort of their armchair...
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Ah white privilege. I was wondering when that was going to put in an appearance :sleep:
 
hulloutpost said:
Thank you so much for acknowledging that.
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Shall we pull out the thread where I eventually force you to acknowledge that violent protest is sometimes required because I use some historical events as examples? In that same thread you acknowledge that you didn't understand the nature of the Tianamen square protest eventually became violent...
 
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