Realistic Targets for Championship | Page 14 | Vital Football

Realistic Targets for Championship

Survival is all I hope for, it was what I hoped for last time but they failed to achieve that. Maybe we will be luckier this time.
 
http://the72.co.uk/105061/rangers-l...-rovers-wigan-athletic-want-liverpool-winger/

Here is the link to the Kent rumours. Apparently won young player of the season at Barnsley in 16-17, before dissapointing loan spells at Freiburg in Bundesliga and Bristol City last season.

I think Rangers with Gerrard connection would have to be favourites to sign Kent. Though it is worth a try to attempt to get him. Could be the sort of player who we could sign permanently after his loan as i dont think he has any realistic chance of breaking through at Liverpool.

I still would have Yanic as number one target for the wing, but i would be happy to take Kent as alternative.
 
This is a win win for Wigan here with gelhardt either collect a nice fee for him or hold on to a good player. Will depend on his relationship with the club in the end but nothing bad can come of this.
 
willjones89210 said:
This is a win win for Wigan here with gelhardt either collect a nice fee for him or hold on to a good player. Will depend on his relationship with the club in the end but nothing bad can come of this.
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As a sixteen year old what sort of contract would he be on right now ? and if he were to be sold anyone any idea what sort of fee could we realistically expect ?
 
He would be mad to sign for a big club and get swallowed up , Cook says he may put him in the first team squad , if your good enough your old enough .. Must be decent with all this interest ..
 
It’s a very tough decision to make for the kid. Just hope he has the right people around him to help make the best choices and doesn’t get swayed by the money too much!
 
ZAKKY said:
As a sixteen year old what sort of contract would he be on right now ? and if he were to be sold anyone any idea what sort of fee could we realistically expect ?
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He won't be on much & if he was sold, we wouldn't get much either coz the bigger clubs know that at a tribunal you only get compensated for the cost of the development that you've put into the player.
So any "pay off" for Latics would come from clauses in the deal such as domestic honours, appearances, international call ups etc..
 
He is on a youth contract and agreed a scholarship for the 2018-19 season, so not yet a first team contract. Nixon said Cook was looking to bring him into the first team this season I think. Probably train with first team and play developmental games and as many youth games as possible
 
Get him on a first team contract. And we will get for him whatever someone is willing to pay. Man united, Chelsea, Everton and Liverpool are not just going to say well you go ahead and have him for whatever the cost to develop him was if they are really interested then he will go to whoever thinks he is worth the most.
 
He is no doubt a hot prospect judging by so much interest but is he even ready for a first team Championship spot yet? Too much too soon can damage a young player and we can't be throwing in a lad next season who isn't at that stage of his development yet. So we might not be in a position to give him the immediate path to first team football that would be likely the best reason to want to stay.
 
Lopez made his debut at 16 and has over 150 appearances at 19 , sometimes managers can be to cautious , it is all down to is he strong enough to cut it with the big boys .
Getting knocked all over the place will knock confidence
 
Lopes has, apparently, suffered from having too many appearances too soon. Yes, he's got a move forwards. But countless fans have said their insistence on playing him in a range of positions regardless of his form have knocked his confidence.
I think it depends on the circumstances.
For me, a season playing in the under 18s but training with the first team squad and perhaps as 4th choice striker would make more sense for Gelhardt than Lang. Lang needs game time to progress and 4th choice for us wouldnt get him that. So another loan makes better sense.
 
It makes sense to me to get these young lads into the first team arena as squad players as soon as possible. Surely it is better to utilise them as back up players than sign a string of ,shall we say "older" players to fill the bench. Experience of the first team dressing room and exposure to more experienced professionals can only help to bring them on. I know many on here advocate sending them out on loan to gain game time but I can remember a time not too long ago when the loan system was hardly used and clubs very often had these youngsters in and around the first team squads and on the bench. To give them game time there was a mid week reserve league which regularly featured the subs from the weekend along with players on the up and players coming back from injury.

The problem with today is everyone wants instant success and managers are too frightened to risk their careers on young untried players and now find it more convenient to send the player out on loan and let another manager take the risk.
 
russialatic said:
Lopes has, apparently, suffered from having too many appearances too soon. Yes, he's got a move forwards. But countless fans have said their insistence on playing him in a range of positions regardless of his form have knocked his confidence.
I think it depends on the circumstances.
For me, a season playing in the under 18s but training with the first team squad and perhaps as 4th choice striker would make more sense for Gelhardt than Lang. Lang needs game time to progress and 4th choice for us wouldnt get him that. So another loan makes better sense.
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I personally see this very different. What type of player would da silva be right now if he was dropped early to never be seen again. Without the good and bad experiences he has had he wouldn't the same player. He would of progressed far slower in the reserves, had less confidence. Even with poor individual performances, each win a player plays a role in the first team increases that players morale. Which increases their confidence and improves their quality of training. Also playing poorly almost always increases a players motivation to work harder to get better.

I'm not saying every young player should be given complete freedom to play poorly regularly, but there has to be a very high level of loyalty and composure from any manager to properly develop a young player into a quality player.

Btw Da silva has a lot of potential, just needs a manager that has confidence in him and guidance to work on his weakness's. It will help if the fans have patience with him, but in truth it really doesn't matter if the manager shows loyalty. Massey this season shows that cook will play a player out of form consistently if that player suits his needs.
 
Victor, I think there's a middle ground.

My point wasnt really about Lopes. It was just that a generic "throw him in" or "protect him" is too simplistic - and i think there's elements of that in your post.

There are individual circumstances and the club needs to find the best path for the individual concerned. People respond differently to the same scenario. Some players need an arm around them, some need a boll*cking. Some need to be dropped, some need to play more. For some, fan abuse will damage them, for others it will galvanise them.

For Lang I believe the best option is another loan. For Gelhardt I believe that is a season with the U18s and potentially training/travelling with the first team, ahead of perhaps a loan next season. But that's based on far less info than the club has. So we need to trust them to get it right.
 
On gelhardt, i've never seen him play so can't comment on his ability or potential. Like you say each player will react differently to similar situations. Although in the past we have had good prospect's that have come to nothing. Maybe they were all over hyped or maybe their development was massively reduced to being under developed at a critical age. It's hard to say as i don't watch any youth football. Most teams that develop a prospect into the best player he can be requires getting him in the first team as soon as possible. A lot of managers are so focused on the short term they refuse to give players the development they need and instead hold them back in the youth teams too long. Cook atleast last season tried to get as many players as possible out playing or doing something here.

If your going to hold onto a top prospect you have to give that player the best possible chance to develop, otherwise cash in at the first opportunity and use the cash to add someone the manager is willing to use.

If Da silva was 19 with one loan similar to lang i highly doubt we would of had even the slightest interest in him. Not because of his ability but due to lack of experience. Most managers wont sign a first team player that doesn't have atleast 100 league games under their belt, if they have that at under 20 then you have a very good player to work with. As they already have experienced a fair few situations and will progress at much faster rate.
 
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TRUE BELIEVER said:
It makes sense to me to get these young lads into the first team arena as squad players as soon as possible. Surely it is better to utilise them as back up players than sign a string of ,shall we say "older" players to fill the bench. Experience of the first team dressing room and exposure to more experienced professionals can only help to bring them on. I know many on here advocate sending them out on loan to gain game time but I can remember a time not too long ago when the loan system was hardly used and clubs very often had these youngsters in and around the first team squads and on the bench. To give them game time there was a mid week reserve league which regularly featured the subs from the weekend along with players on the up and players coming back from injury.

The problem with today is everyone wants instant success and managers are too frightened to risk their careers on young untried players and now find it more convenient to send the player out on loan and let another manager take the risk.
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The thing is that the game has changed a lot in a relatively short span of time. Reserve football used to pretty much be all the best kids, the older pros and the first teamers who didn't play on Saturday every week playing somewhat competative games and coming up against experienced opposition. But now it's U23's it's mostly all kids with the odd over age player coming back from injury for fitness and the games seem to be played more like a friendly. So a young lad being in and around the first team will be limited to mostly training and sitting in the stands watching most Saturdays.

It appears players are either entitled to large appearance bonuses if they play or managers are afraid to risk injuring anyone in these type of games so the likes of Lang knocking around the squad as 3rd or 4th choice striker may mean he wont get the same experience that a young lad 10 or 15 years ago would've got. If Lang would've been in Hunt / Devante Coles position last season he'd only have played about 400 minutes all season where he'd potentially he could hit 400 minutes in a month while out on loan. I think these young players will learn more playing first team league footall at a lower level than they will training with our first team and only getting a start if we have 2 or 3 more senior players in their position injured. It might not be the highest standard of football in L2 but the lower down the leagues you go the bigger and rougher the opposition players can be and the less protection you get from officials and it's often the case that young talented lads come undone when they are faced with an experienced pro who are more physical and knows all the old tricks. I think unless we have enough faith in Lang that we feel he's likely to get on as sub ahead of both Devante and Vaughan regularly then we'd be better letting him out on loan again.
 
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