Ranking our CM's on key stats. | Vital Football

Ranking our CM's on key stats.

DeanoVilla

DeanoVilla

One Bloody Number
Ok, so I'll start of by saying, yes this is a Conor Hourihane appreciation thread.

I do get sick and tired of hearing the same old crap about Conor. He's lightweight, he's inconsistent, he can't tackle... blah blah blah.... things that could be levelled at all of our midfielders, yet he seems to get singled out for.

So lets look at the numbers, according to WhoScored.com to see if the stick he gets is right, or if in fact he should be starting ahead of the likes of Luiz, Drinkwater and Nakamba.

Below are key areas that you'd expect a midfielder to be good in and I've ranked our midfielders from best to worst in each category according to WhoScored.com


Unsuccessful Touches (Bad Control) -

1. Hourihane (best in category so has least unsuccessful touches)
2. Drinkwater
3. Lansbury
4. Nakamba
5. Luiz (most unsuccessful touches)


Dispossed by Opponent -

1. Hourihane (best in category. Gets dispossesed the least)
2. Nakamba
3. Luiz
4. Drinkwater


Pass Success Percentage -

1. Hourihane
2. Luiz
3. Nakamba
4. Drinkwater
5. Lansbury


Key Passes per game -

1. Hourihane
2. Nakamba
3. Luiz
4. Drinkwater
5. Lansbury


Goals -

1. Hourihane
2. Luiz
The other 3 haven't registered a goal between them.

Assists -

1. Hourihane
2. Luiz
The other 3 haven't registered an assist between them.


Shots -

1. Luiz
2. Hourihane
3. Drinkwater
4. Nakamba
5. Lansbury


Interceptions -

1. Nakamba
2. Drinkwater
3. Luiz
4. Hourihane
5. Lansbury


Tackles -

1. Nakamba
2. Drinkwater
3. Luiz
4. Lansbury
5. Hourihane



Now.... I'm not saying Hourihane is the messiah, and I would be quite happy to see him replaced in the side by a better player, but are Luiz, Nakamba, Drinkwater or Lansbury better players? Really?

He may well be the weakest defensively (but then Luiz scores lowly on that front too), but if you're looking at the all round picture of then surely the fact he tops 6 and 2nd in one of the other categories makes up for that?

He just seems to be a bit of a scapegoat. Yes he has bad games. Sometimes he's anonymous (I've called him out on it myself before), but then the same accusations could easily be aimed at all of our midfielders.

I swear to god some of you would have thought David Platt crap coz he couldn't tackle either.

Anyway rant over. I know it won't make a blind bit of difference. Most of you have decided you don't like him for whatever reason so there's no way a little thing like facts is going to change your minds.

I just hope Smith see's that we need him in the run-in as Luiz, Nakamba and Drinkwater in particular just aren't doing it.
 
im actually with you.

the only question is what formation?

Reina
Guilbert, konsa, engles, mings, targett
naka,
el ghazi, hourihane jack
samatta
 
I think Hourihane would be very effective in a differently set up side. I don't think he's a bad player but he is limited as a midfielder. He's not the box-to-box general that Villa fans love.

He'd probably be top scorer for Sheffield Utd.
 
There's no point comparing Nakamba to Hourihane as they're completely different players/midfielders.

Luiz vs Hourihane is a better comparison IMO and in the last few games I think Luiz has been as ineffective as Hourihane usually is, especially where tackling is concerned but Luiz is the better passer/playmaker by a country mile, Hourihane's "wand" of a left foot never turns up unless it's a dead ball within 25 yards of the goal.
 
The problem is people seem to judge Conor on tackling when thats not his game.

The biggest problem is we don't have a decent DM.

We shouldn't need 2 DM's when playing 5 at the back, 1 decent one would do. But Nakamba and Luiz have proved to be awful and so Smith feels he needs to play both of them (or Drinklager) to compensate.

Conor is an awesome no.8. He links play, keeps possesion, can play a killer pass, create and score goals. But coz he can't tackle like Roy Keane he gets slated.

Nakamba on the other hand can tackle.... but then gives it straight back, so really what's the point?

And Luiz is sooooo inconsistent. Even more so than Conor.
 
DeanoVilla said:
Ok, so I'll start of by saying, yes this is a Conor Hourihane appreciation thread.

I do get sick and tired of hearing the same old crap about Conor. He's lightweight, he's inconsistent, he can't tackle... blah blah blah.... things that could be levelled at all of our midfielders, yet he seems to get singled out for.

So lets look at the numbers, according to WhoScored.com to see if the stick he gets is right, or if in fact he should be starting ahead of the likes of Luiz, Drinkwater and Nakamba.

Below are key areas that you'd expect a midfielder to be good in and I've ranked our midfielders from best to worst in each category according to WhoScored.com


Unsuccessful Touches (Bad Control) -

1. Hourihane (best in category so has least unsuccessful touches)
2. Drinkwater
3. Lansbury
4. Nakamba
5. Luiz (most unsuccessful touches)


Dispossed by Opponent -

1. Hourihane (best in category. Gets dispossesed the least)
2. Nakamba
3. Luiz
4. Drinkwater


Pass Success Percentage -

1. Hourihane
2. Luiz
3. Nakamba
4. Drinkwater
5. Lansbury


Key Passes per game -

1. Hourihane
2. Nakamba
3. Luiz
4. Drinkwater
5. Lansbury


Goals -

1. Hourihane
2. Luiz
The other 3 haven't registered a goal between them.

Assists -

1. Hourihane
2. Luiz
The other 3 haven't registered an assist between them.


Shots -

1. Luiz
2. Hourihane
3. Drinkwater
4. Nakamba
5. Lansbury


Interceptions -

1. Nakamba
2. Drinkwater
3. Luiz
4. Hourihane
5. Lansbury


Tackles -

1. Nakamba
2. Drinkwater
3. Luiz
4. Lansbury
5. Hourihane



Now.... I'm not saying Hourihane is the messiah, and I would be quite happy to see him replaced in the side by a better player, but are Luiz, Nakamba, Drinkwater or Lansbury better players? Really?

He may well be the weakest defensively (but then Luiz scores lowly on that front too), but if you're looking at the all round picture of then surely the fact he tops 6 and 2nd in one of the other categories makes up for that?

He just seems to be a bit of a scapegoat. Yes he has bad games. Sometimes he's anonymous (I've called him out on it myself before), but then the same accusations could easily be aimed at all of our midfielders.

I swear to god some of you would have thought David Platt crap coz he couldn't tackle either.

Anyway rant over. I know it won't make a blind bit of difference. Most of you have decided you don't like him for whatever reason so there's no way a little thing like facts is going to change your minds.

I just hope Smith see's that we need him in the run-in as Luiz, Nakamba and Drinkwater in particular just aren't doing it.
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1. You need to attempt to touch the ball to make an unsuccessful touch.

2. You also need to be in possession of the football to be dispossessed.

3. Goals and assists, yes, Hourihane has a great free kick on him and if he is given all the space and time in the world, as he is during a set play, he does very well. Douglas is more dangerous from open play, and Drinkwater, when in form, will be more creative from open play. Sine 95% of the game is made of open play, we should probably punt for one or both of those two.

Interceptions and tackles are why he is not a premier league quality central midfielder.

In summary, while hourihane has a great set play threat, he does not contribute enough during open play to warrant a start over a premier league standard central midfielder such as McGinn, Douglas or Drinkwater. He does not possess the defensive capabilities to play in Nakamba's defensive midfield role either.
 
ldgavfc said:
Douglas is more dangerous from open play, and Drinkwater, when in form, will be more creative from open play.
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In your opinion. Yet the stats seem to prove that Conor has a better pass completion, plays more key passes, creates more goals and scores more goals than both of them.

I'll never understand why anyone would take the side of a loan player who's played 3 games (badly) over a player who has given his all for this club for 3 years and played a massive part in our promotion.

Madness.
 
DeanoVilla said:
In your opinion. Yet the stats seem to prove that Conor has a better pass completion, plays more key passes, creates more goals and scores more goals than both of them.

I'll never understand why anyone would take the side of a loan player who's played 3 games (badly) over a player who has given his all for this club for 3 years and played a massive part in our promotion.

Madness.
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absolutely. totally agree that we shouldnt need 2 DMs
 
Villan57 said:
I love stats, how stats prove Connor Hourihane is our best Midfield player bloody hell how have Man Utd not been linked, There was me thinking it was John McGinn and Jack Grealish :shake:
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To be fair you were happy to quote some stats a couple of weeks back, that ranked Conor bottom for tackles and interceptions. Can’t use it for one argument but not the other
 
I’d have him in a midfield 3 with Marv and Luiz and Jack in the hole just in front of them. When McGinn is back it’s between Conor and Luiz to fight it out
 
Going back to my earlier point about Hourihane being a limited but effective player, wasn't he top scorer for Barnsley when we signed him?

We always seem to sign players and then play them out of position or play them to their weaknesses rather than their strengths.
 
DeanoVilla said:
In your opinion. Yet the stats seem to prove that Conor has a better pass completion, plays more key passes, creates more goals and scores more goals than both of them.

I'll never understand why anyone would take the side of a loan player who's played 3 games (badly) over a player who has given his all for this club for 3 years and played a massive part in our promotion.

Madness.
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I'm not taking sides, I'm just stating that Drinkwater is a superior player. Hourihane's peak is playing a bit part in a relegation battle at the age of 29, Drinkwater's peak was a premier league title and a 35 million pound move to Chelsea.

I like Hourihane as a person, and I respect him for the part he played in promotion. Fact is though that Douglas has more potential and, when in form, looks very dangerous in open play while also tracking back and helping defensively.

Drinkwater looks sharper every time I see him play and some of his passing to Samatta on Sunday was sublime and it's a link I think we will be seeing a lot of in the next couple of months. If we can get the best out of him, we have a real top quality premier league midfielder on our hands.

Hourihane just isn't in the same league of quality unfortunately. Great player to have in the squad and on the bench because of his abilities with a dead ball and his attitude, but hes not a premier league starter by any stretch, sorry.
 
Hourihane has very useful strengths. Set plays and the knack of getting a goal. However he cannot at all impose himself on a game at any decent level. I would guess that the main reason he gives the ball away less is because he doesn't try to do anything with it bar passing it straight back to the centre halves. Ashley Westwood had wonderful passing stats as well. He's a good squad player but should not ne starting.

My midfield would be Nakamba, Luiz and Jack with Samatta and one of El Ghazi or Baston with him. I don't think the current formation suits any of our available midfielders. If we had 2 Mcginns we could play 2 in there but we don't. 3 would allow nakamba to just concentrate defensively, Luiz to be more attacking and Jack would be at the centre of things linking attack and midfield.
 
suppose it depends how you pick the stats you want to use
(goals and assists for Conor are all against Norwich and Newcastle - nothing against anyone else)
If you look at pass completion then Conor is better than Grealish and McGinn
(he does make a lot less passes per game though - just taking the easy ones and hiding the rest of the time I guess some would suggest).

If we are using whoscored then they rank our midfield overall as
Grealish>McGinn>Naka>Luiz=Conor>Lansbury>>>drinkdriver

seems about right with Luiz obv with more potential
 
ldgavfc said:
I'm not taking sides, I'm just stating that Drinkwater is a superior player..
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I disagree. Maybe 4 years ago. But he's done nothing since and looked awful in every games he's played this season.

If we're talking about 4 years ago then does that also make Danny Simpson better than Ben Chilwell?

Hourihane has been by far the superior player over the past 3 years.

You can't live on past glories forever... Although us villa fans love to try. :grinning:
 
JW1985 said:
Hourihane has very useful strengths. Set plays and the knack of getting a goal. However he cannot at all impose himself on a game at any decent level..
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So when have Luiz, Nakamba and Drinkwater imposed themselves on a game this season? I must have missed that.

This is my problem. A lot of the points about Conor may be fair, but the other players aren't judged equally.

As said right at the start is happily replace him with someone better. Someone as you say who can impose themselves on games. But none of that trio have at any point this season.
 
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