Racism in football/booing/the knee

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

The movement, yes, not the *organisation* of the same name.

From the Wikipedia article: "The loose structure of Black Lives Matter has contributed to confusion in the press and among activists, as actions or statements from chapters or individuals are sometimes attributed to "Black Lives Matter" as a whole.[26][27] Matt Pearce, writing for the Los Angeles Times, commented that "the words could be serving as a political rallying cry or referring to the activist organization. Or it could be the fuzzily applied label used to describe a wide range of protests and conversations focused on racial inequality."[28]"

Yes, I get that it's a loose term now and that players etc. take it as something that's non-political, but if it's about racism and inequality in general why are they still using the BLM moniker? It's hardly very inclusive is it.

On the other hand, I do accept that maybe the horse has bolted as far as that goes.

 

[BringbakMON]

might be a double knee offence :

https://news.sky.com/story/hartlepo...ory-sign-to-avoid-offending-visitors-12327668

 

[Villan57]

might be a double knee offence :

https://news.sky.com/story/hartlepo...ory-sign-to-avoid-offending-visitors-12327668

The worlds gone mate

 

[Platypus]

might be a double knee offence :

https://news.sky.com/story/hartlepo...ory-sign-to-avoid-offending-visitors-12327668

'The Daily Telegraph has reported that a sign will be placed on the monument following conclusions in a report from June 2020 that it could be "misused by those with differing agendas to portray Hartlepool as unfriendly towards foreigners".'

The Daily Telegraph. Well you can put it in the bank then.

 

[mike_field]

Tail wagging the dog again. The BLM group exist as a fundraising organisation to support the anti-racism movement.

So you're playing the footballers game, it's not that BLM that we gave air time to and interviewed, fundraised and then rebranded, it's this BLM who do some good but didn't get the airtime - so all these months on we are now truly actually supporting the second group who didn't cause the original problem because we didn't do our homework.

Okay...

 

[mike_field]

That it's a dispersed and loose movement based on black liberation not defined by a single organised group.

So why did the press only interview a select bunch of people and push one group in particular without reading their official website or Twitter feeds?

 

[Platypus]

So why did the press only interview a select bunch of people and push one group in particular without reading their official website or Twitter feeds?

I don't know that they did. Which bit of the press? It's a big old thing.

 

[Claret & Blue Blood]

The worlds gone mate

Signs are being erected at Twycross Zoo to explain that the endangered primates that are part of a captive breeding programme and not making a political statement.

 

[mike_field]

This is the issue in a nutshell Mike. Both have been put together and there is only going to be one winner and it won't be the fans booing. The perception is that these people are racist and racists, real or imagined will not win.

Whats going to happen now is the English will be labelled as hooligans of Europe again and the only people who'll join in the booing are Europes far right.

Ireland took the knee tonight and the Hungarian players pointed to the respect symbol on their badge but nobody booed.

It won't be about the truth, it'll be about perception.

Which is why a compromise is needed to draw the line -show some understanding on both sides and then unite behind something the majority can move forward with.

 

[mike_field]

I don't know that they did.

Educate yourself then

(sorry couldn't resist mate, thought the thread needed something a little lighthearted)

 

[Platypus]

Educate yourself then

(sorry couldn't resist mate, thought the thread needed something a little lighthearted)

Hmph. The only Marx I *don't* like is the Marx Brothers.

 

[The Fear]

Would a bit of Morris Dancing be a more British way to deal with these things?

Just not keen copying everything America do, which isn't any offence to America, just.. well, we don't need to import everything do we?

 

[Villan57]

Would a bit of Morris Dancing be a more British way to deal with these things?

Just not keen copying everything America do, which isn't any offence to America, just.. well, we don't need to import everything do we?

I had a mate who did Morris dancing until he slipped off the bonnet and did his back in

 

[CDX_EIRE]

Which is why a compromise is needed to draw the line -show some understanding on both sides and then unite behind something the majority can move forward with.

It just won't happen though - both sides are just as clueless as each other. The governing bodies tbf are probably more clueless but they're on the "right" side. And if we are real a lot of the people booing are in fact, pure yobs. They've never read Karl Marx, they don't know what Marxism is or they might simply just not like BLM the organization.

The Governing bodies have made mistakes too but they're not going to change just yet. They didn't realize what BLM was, neither the movement nor the organization. I doubt they really understood the symbolism of taking the knee.

Why I think this will continue is the usual carry-on, "We know better than you". And American corporations are deeply tied into English football now. Look at our club, Wes Edens owns the Bucks, a basketball franchise. The Bucks abandoned game 5 of the playoffs last year because of BLM. The franchise backed the players protesting the game.

Edens is a full-blown capitalist but they support BLM. He isnt stupid, I think he understands what I try to say about this which isn't right but its reality. You can choose your side of history and anyone booing is picking the wrong side. BLM has the might of big tech, left-wing media, and public perception. These are the people writing history and to be cliche these people are playing 4D Chess.

Booing can easily be dismissed, you have to play their game and hit their pockets. We're also past the point where you can hope to compete with Big Tech without major legislation. You could have 10MM followers, christ you could be president of the United States and your followers can be wiped out with the press of a few buttons. You can be silenced so if these people want change they're going to have to start thinking differently.

I'll be surprised if there is a compromise. I think vocal players like Mings and Rashford will see that as a failure to back them. A confirmation that the institution of English Football is infact racist and that they've bowed down to racist hooligans. That'll be the narrative which is another reason I doubt we see things changing. Perception is more important than the facts or reality.

 

[McParlandTheGreat]

Why is all of this moral posturing done in front of football fans? Why isn't it done to The Bachelor or Love Island's audience? Why don't the orchestra at the Sydney Opera House take a knee before each performance? I'll tell you exactly why. The housewives and liberal arts students who dream up all of this performative "activism" blame football fans for all of the ills of society. Football fans are the scum of the universe who need "moral education" from a 19 year old with pink hair and a nose ring. Nobody takes a knee at the show jumping. That would be ridiculous. Nice, upper-middle class people aren't to be talked down to like naughty school boys about social issues.

FIFA, UEFA, The FA, The Premier League and even the clubs are always dead keen to jump on the latest "activism" bandwagon. They love putting on some kind of performance for the cameras to show how much they care.

Of course, when Robbie Fowler pulled up his shirt to show his message of support for the Liverpool dock workers, he was slapped with a heavy fine. UEFA said they had to fine him because a football ground was not the right place for political demonstrations. Supporting working class issues is utterly taboo. If he'd had a message about LGBT issues or something else that liberal arts students care about, he'd have been hailed as a hero.

I don't really understand why England fans are booing players taking a knee. I'm not posting this in support of them.

However, I think football fans around the world should boo every time we get talked down to about the latest trendy social issue.

It's done in football because football is possibly the most universal past-time in this country. It's followed by a large part of the population whatever their background. It has a public stage in a way Love Island, horse jumping or opera don't. And on that stage it's players who are directly targetted by the racist scum who unfortunately exist.

Players who are targetted are angry, have every right to be angry and are right in calling it out. The days of "keep quiet or it'll ruin the game" have gone, and rightly so.

 

[The Fear]

It's done in football because football is possibly the most universal past-time in this country. It's followed by a large part of the population whatever their background. It has a public stage in a way Love Island, horse jumping or opera don't. And on that stage it's players who are directly targetted by the racist scum who unfortunately exist.

Players who are targetted are angry, have every right to be angry and are right in calling it out. The days of "keep quiet or it'll ruin the game" have gone, and rightly so.

But the players did it to back up the protests in America over Flloyd. Mings himself said that was the straw that broke the camels back. It confused me, as to why we (football) becomes the right platform for it. The BLM marches were the platform for it, mostly in the country where that issue is (and what a woeful issue) and I would argue for us, not during a pandemic, but that's another debate altogether.

If this was about dogs abuse at games in this country, I'd understand (not talking online, that is a whole different cesspit of hatred). But we've not been at the games during this.

Seems to me, maybe I'm sensitive, that all football fans are being tarred with the same brush

 

[Melon Donkey]

Would a bit of Morris Dancing be a more British way to deal with these things?

Just not keen copying everything America do, which isn't any offence to America, just.. well, we don't need to import everything do we?

I have had a drink in that pub.
I can confirm I didn’t Morris Dance.

 

[sirdennis]

My Dad always wanted to do some Morris dancing.

I think the fact that the rest of us said we would disown him stopped him doing it.

 

[Claret & Blue Blood]

Would a bit of Morris Dancing be a more British way to deal with these things?

Just not keen copying everything America do, which isn't any offence to America, just.. well, we don't need to import everything do we?

I used to enjoy a bit of Morris dancing in my youth and then the neighbour bought a Cortina and the fun stopped

 

[mike_field]

It just won't happen though - both sides are just as clueless as each other. The governing bodies tbf are probably more clueless but they're on the "right" side. And if we are real a lot of the people booing are in fact, pure yobs. They've never read Karl Marx, they don't know what Marxism is or they might simply just not like BLM the organization.

The Governing bodies have made mistakes too but they're not going to change just yet. They didn't realize what BLM was, neither the movement nor the organization. I doubt they really understood the symbolism of taking the knee.

Why I think this will continue is the usual carry-on, "We know better than you". And American corporations are deeply tied into English football now. Look at our club, Wes Edens owns the Bucks, a basketball franchise. The Bucks abandoned game 5 of the playoffs last year because of BLM. The franchise backed the players protesting the game.

Edens is a full-blown capitalist but they support BLM. He isnt stupid, I think he understands what I try to say about this which isn't right but its reality. You can choose your side of history and anyone booing is picking the wrong side. BLM has the might of big tech, left-wing media, and public perception. These are the people writing history and to be cliche these people are playing 4D Chess.

Booing can easily be dismissed, you have to play their game and hit their pockets. We're also past the point where you can hope to compete with Big Tech without major legislation. You could have 10MM followers, christ you could be president of the United States and your followers can be wiped out with the press of a few buttons. You can be silenced so if these people want change they're going to have to start thinking differently.

I'll be surprised if there is a compromise. I think vocal players like Mings and Rashford will see that as a failure to back them. A confirmation that the institution of English Football is infact racist and that they've bowed down to racist hooligans. That'll be the narrative which is another reason I doubt we see things changing. Perception is more important than the facts or reality.

I agree with you it's unlikely to happen now people have dug in, but it's a more sensible way forward than what both sides are doing right now.

I don't buy that most are yobs based on what I've read and the chats I've had (but again, undoubtedly a portion will be), and you don't need to have an intimate knowledge of Marx to understand 'defund the Police, end capitalism' is totally batshit and uberly political in this country (defund the Police for a start being totally inapplicable anyway) and come to the conclusion that those being quoted in the press, pushing this agenda, couldn't give a flying about equality so don't deserve support.

In the way KIO would never hit those levers, even if players were kneeling.

Fans will dig in more owing to the criticism and because players/media have now rewritten the history to cover their own fuck up here. Plenty of players would've wanted this for the right reasons I get that and would otherwise support, but the press, others, it's the latest bandwagon jump to be trendy and appeal and it's why they so massively fucked it up by not doing the homework.

I do agree with you on plenty in the post though, and I worry where this is heading now because sides have been drawn when they really didn't need to be.