Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM | Page 154 | Vital Football

Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM

CDX_EIRE

Vital Football Hero
What a mess all this is.

A slogan and an organization conflated together which ultimately undermines the true original message. IMO BLM the organization should change their name, they are now a barrier to progress. They won't do it tho, too much publicity and that means a lot of money going into the coffers. The irony of it all.

I am on the fence about what Dan said, if there was in fact boring then I don't think its wrong for Mings to make a statement. Yet with the issue outlined above who knows what he really means when he says "educate yourselves".

What a mess. Its much like criticizing Israel without being antisemitic, its in that realm.

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My view is always to look at it from the angle of "you catch more bee's with honey". I think it is dumb to criticize BLM in the way most do. Booing them, stupid. Saying they are a marxist anti-capitalist group, factual but also dumb. Trying to tarnish the name of this woman, maybe not dumb but certainly a complete waste of time.

To me its the same as bias and sensitivity training, when the person walks in the room and calls everyone a racist. Or when every white person is told they have privilege.

If you give someone a reason to be defensive they are going to be and you'll get absolutely nowhere with a defensive person.
 

danvilla2

Vital Football Legend
Controversial or comfortable isn't the point or an issue Col or Dan.
I was just having a bit of joke with the “saying it” mate.

I think it’s shocking she has been shot, whether I agree with her politics or not, you don’t wish that on anyone (perhaps serial offenders in prison but not normal people). It’s often the kids I feel sorry for in any bad news situation.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
My view is always to look at it from the angle of "you catch more bee's with honey". I think it is dumb to criticize BLM in the way most do. Booing them, stupid. Saying they are a marxist anti-capitalist group, factual but also dumb. Trying to tarnish the name of this woman, maybe not dumb but certainly a complete waste of time.
Totally against racism, it goes against common sense and logic for one reason, it is simply the pigmentation of the skin that people are so worked up about, and as I've said many times, people are people (I've used the hospital/blood tests/being wheeled down for ops example a good few times)

I disagree with your take that being angry at BLM being given such a voice is dumb though. Isn't it educated to read up and find out about groups we are told we should be supporting? And they are a divisive and nasty operation, or at least those at the top espousing their beliefs are. They are trying to turn into a political party, fine, that is their right, but I am not dumb for being against an angry, poorly represented, Marxist, anti-capitalist group, I am educated in politics and pride myself on being exactly the opposite of dumb on such issues.

Kick Racism Out and other organisations on the other hand, I'd applaud all day long.

The woman doesn't need others to tarnish her name, she's done it. Shouting at a black man, what she was shouting, because he dared have another opinion, was enough, without the other junk she espoused. I'd actually loved her to have had a valid voice, a great argument and helped politicians etc to form a plan of what needs doing to help the communities she was saying she represented, including tackling the growing gang culture and how to give those communities the true feeling of worth and that there are opportunities for her.

(Not offended or having a go at you for your post btw, we are all entitled to our views on these things, but that did strike me as an odd take really)

Booing the players taking the knee, I agree, I don't believe that to be right, it just inflames the situation.

I can't comment on catching bees, I like to let them live free and pollinate the plants. ;)
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Find it so strange that the players think that Floyd was the straw that broke the camels back. A drugged up thug who held a gun to a pregnant ladies belly is what some are holding up? And it looked like a personal beef between the thug cop who is rightly in jail (I think murderers should meet the hangman so not sticking up for him) and Floyd.

But no mention of our very own Dalian?

Why do we have to import everything, even anger (and something I hoped we'd never get, gangs) now it seems, from USA

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ged-a-year-on-from-the-murder-of-george-floyd

I will once again add, I'm a white guy, I grew up in a middle class area, I haven't experienced racism - well, I was told to fuck off back to my own country in Kuala Lumpur once whilst having a drink with Bodybutter lol

I am all for equal rights, for people just to treat each other as human beings, as the same, we are all part of the same ridiculous species ffs.
 

danvilla2

Vital Football Legend
I think this is where BLM could really make a big statement about their organisation and values off the back of this, by moving away from some of the more silly suggestions such as tax breaks for compensation, to actually making a difference to the society. Violent crime is killing a lot of young black lives, and the power they have to change that I believe could really make a huge difference. The government and police struggle to get this part right, only yesterday after the news update of this there was a report on unfair stop and search - it’s a minefield to get right. Therefore, I think the organisations which represent the community have a big role to play.

By condemning the people who have done this whether they are black, white, brown, green or whatever colour, for the quite literal point that Black Lives Matter, would be a real rounded argument and show them to be a progressive organisation rather than seek damages. I’ve always believed you need to get your own house in order a bit before condemning others. I completely accept white men have in the past (both long into history and in recent history) done awful things to black people - I was only watching a shocking documentary the other day of a French general in Niger, where they took out the villages of innocent people.

As a white male to make amends for those awful things in history, I can change my ways and behaviours for the better going forward, and I’ve said many a time I believe you need to be conscious of your biases. I do believe there are systematic forces which oppress certain communities in very subtle ways - despite the government report suggesting otherwise - and it’s important that we are conscious to not allow our biases, not to take over.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Yes, agreed, changing behaviour moving forward is so much more important, not to excuse the past, but to learn from it and try to find a future. And yes, some of the things are horrendous, like the Belgian's in the Congo and us wherever we trud as well really.

We all need to call out racism for what it is, I have never had the issue to call out at Villa Park, but know I would if I'd heard the N word, the ladies by me (used to be) hated the C word and there were kids about, so I would usually call that out if it was repeatedly used for example.

And online, the big companies should do more, they won't, so instead of 2-3 day boycotts, there should be mass boycotts to get it stopped. To think the likes of twitter and facebook don't even use swear filters to block certain words is unbelievable really.

So much could be done to help the poor communities as well, not just a race/colour issue that, just helping everyone in poverty and give them hope and aspirations.
 
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danvilla2

Vital Football Legend
So much could be done to help the poor communities as well, not just a race/colour issue that, just helping everyone in poverty and give them hope and aspirations.
Indeed. I don’t believe in blanket financial incentives on the scale of what this lady called out in terms of tax breaks for black people, which to me comes across as financial gain from someone else’s suffering. I find that very disingenuous actually.

But I would have absolutely no problem - and I’m sure these schemes exist but perhaps need to be improved - where an aspiring talent from a disadvantaged financial background should be able to get their hands on a grant for skills training. Not that long along, I donated to a black guy who had put a lot of effort into a promotional video to pay for his pilot training as that is a very upper middle class, white profession that the vast majority of us (including the vast majority of white people) would never be able to afford.

Surely a very small chunk of treasury revenue could go to supporting aspiring people like that to then break the cycle of the wealthiest who can afford to stay wealthy? Over time, the affluence increases, the wealth is spread but off the back of success, and there is even more integration? Who knows.
 
Yes, agreed, changing behaviour moving forward is so much more important, not to excuse the past, but to learn from it and try to find a future. And yes, some of the things are horrendous, like the Belgian's in the Congo and us wherever we trud as well really.

We all need to call out racism for what it is, I have never had the issue to call out at Villa Park, but know I would if I'd heard the N word, the ladies by me (used to be) hated the C word and there were kids about, so I would usually call that out if it was repeatedly used for example.

And online, the big companies should do more, they won't, so instead of 2-3 day boycotts, there should be mass boycotts to get it stopped. To think the likes of twitter and facebook don't even use swear filters to block certain words is unbelievable really.

So much could be done to help the poor communities as well, not just a race/colour issue that, just helping everyone in poverty and give them hope and aspirations.
Back in the 90's my opening partner who is still a good mate to this day , was called a P**i C*** by the opposition fast bowler. I was at the non strikers end and lost it completely I went mad at him threatening to wrap my bat around his head etc and it all kicked off as you can imagine. I talked to Smiler (his nickname) after the game about it , and he said he was used such abuse - in life not just cricket - that it was water off a ducks back. Made me very sad as it made me realise that you had to walk a mile in his shoes just to understand what he had experienced.
 

wittonite

I speak from a point of total ignorance
Saying they are a marxist anti-capitalist group, factual but also dumb.
Thanks for calling me dumb CDX:loser:.
Your statement is a bit of a contradiction.
You have the good grace to aknowledge they are a Marxist group, everything I dislike politically, so therefor surely their hardcore support agree with their aims and methods of acheiving their goals, or do they just pick and choose the bits they like.
Very pleased to see that in a subsequent post you state that BLM now sit upon a sizeable bank account, oh the irony indeed.
Not only Marxist but capitalist aswell, its a nice little trick that many hard left individuals and groups manage to pull off.
 

Stephen Jay Hawkings

Vital Champions League
Saying they are a marxist anti-capitalist group, factual but also dumb.
Not sure I get this at all. Can't be factual and dumb at the same time.

The thinking of a lot of people seems to be "oh well, we didn't really know they were a radical Marxist group, but let's forget about that part and go on supporting it anyway because it's just the anti-racism bit that matters".

Fine, then support and elevate something else like Kick It Out or start a new movement. If it's all about anti-racism then how about "Black and Asian Lives Matter"? People could at least stretch that far since they have such a stick up their arse about "All Lives Matter".

I think the real problem is people supporting them from the start now realise they have been duped but are too proud to admit it.
 

colavfc

Vital 1st Team Regular
I will back any legitimate anti racism campaign with no ridiculous hidden agendas.
I will happily actively challenge racism if and when I see it. No issues there.
I will and have done many charity events for ethnic minority groups. And will continue to do so.
Support BLM... No chance. Absolute no chance. All I see if a very dangerous and extreme network that promotes some very dangerous messages.
And tax break??? Mmmm. Ok.. well my grandparents fought in world war 2 and suffered to make our lives possible. Can I have said tax break too. Thanks in advance.
 

colavfc

Vital 1st Team Regular
I asked my ex-company to investigate the racism I witnessed against an 18 year old muslim girl and surprise surprise my request was denied. Looks like more of them there are racist and not just the one individual I heard.
Shocker. Well the nob is obviously a bully too if he/she is picking on an 18 year old. Poor girl.
From my experience with life my favourite people are Asian females. Generally speaking ultra polite and respectful, good personalities, approachable and genuine. From my experience.
 

Fulford

Vital Football Legend
Shocker. Well the nob is obviously a bully too if he/she is picking on an 18 year old. Poor girl.
From my experience with life my favourite people are Asian females. Generally speaking ultra polite and respectful, good personalities, approachable and genuine. From my experience.
One of my best friends is a Chinese female.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Back in the 90's my opening partner who is still a good mate to this day , was called a P**i C*** by the opposition fast bowler. I was at the non strikers end and lost it completely I went mad at him threatening to wrap my bat around his head etc and it all kicked off as you can imagine. I talked to Smiler (his nickname) after the game about it , and he said he was used such abuse - in life not just cricket - that it was water off a ducks back. Made me very sad as it made me realise that you had to walk a mile in his shoes just to understand what he had experienced.
Agreed, shouldn't have to be water off a ducks back should it? I know as 'kids' (and some people never grow up) we do the fat this, bald that, ginger this ... you just go for the obvious. BUT... there is a line. I guess some of the fat, ginger or bald (!) might say they don't see a distinction, bullying and abuse is bullying and abuse.

Don't know.

Just all seems a sad world when this is what we all do really.