Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM | Page 140 | Vital Football

Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM

wittonite

I speak from a point of total ignorance
I work with lots of educated Indians in my field who have made successful careers for themselves. By far and away the most racist ethnicity in my opinion. Too many deep rooted historical problems that even cause division within the culture.
After having worked amongst Indian people for many years, I have posted the above on a number of occasions.
It goes on amongst many many ethnic groups all around the world, and so I find it strange that it is only really discussed in terms of white racism against black people in this country.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
Another reason not to take the government's race report seriously. Another example of them making stuff up.

"An author and curator named as someone who gave evidence to the Government’s controversial race report has angrily denied having anything to do with the review after he was included in error."

“They never contacted me or consulted me. And if they knew anything about me, they know I would not have had anything to do with any of the current shenanigans at Number 10,” he said."

https://bit.ly/31EmJYJ
As said before the semantics are coming out, but again, Sewell was the wrong person to figurehead this because he said the same 15 years ago which patently wasn't true.

People have admitted being in meetings and giving their thoughts and seeing cmte members but NOT knowing they were contributing to this particular study. Folks on all sides are cherry picking lines to suit their agendas and ignoring the middle ground cmte members like Aderin-Pocock (is it - science lass) who explained quite clearly the institutions they looked at - Gov, Police, NHS etc - they found no evidence of institutional racism but that doesn't mean there isn't racism within those organisations and it certainly didn't mean there wasn't institutional racism in institutions they didn't look at.

I didn't catch his name but one bloke was very credible criticising the report and what it chose to look at for him, to come to a happy ending and importantly what it didn't look at which he believed would've found different conclusions.

But even he went off about higher death rates in birth for blacks as being proof of institutional racism whilst ignoring every other factor, COVID et al ignoring other factors and he admitted meeting the committee and talking about his experiences of institutional racism in the past but he didn't draw the line between a report looking at the now (not the past) whilst also not offering any current experiences.

The report is spot on about financial issues and their impact in the community (all communities) but it's also massively flawed the more I see because it had an end point at the start and that's not how you independently approach things.

Fully accepting the report is spot on at points, given the main positive focus and headline is shrinking wage gaps, whites are falling behind so stop moaning, not only totally seems to miss the point but it only furthers the angst and division anyway amongst the more extreme.

But it seems none of the big wigs either clocked that, or alternatively, care about that.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
I haven’t read the report apart from the headlines but it does seem wide of the mark for any organisation to claim there is no racism in their organisation, and certainly for a government to claim there is no systemic racism.
From what I can gather the report accepts there is racism within the institutions they looked at BUT it wasn't institutional racism in the sense of they deliberately failed black or ethnic minorities as an institution. The racism was more isolated and in effect 'individual specific' (my emphasis) but I'm yet to read anything that gives any kind of guidance or advice on how to deal and stamp out that individual element so the institutions looked at can say they are not racist at all.

The institutional element is access, entitlement, standard of care, quality of care, priority etc etc and in short, the report points to we fail all poor people equally, just as we treat a better class of people equally regardless of colour, race etc - it's not racist we are actually failing on a class structure.
 

Pangloss

Vital 1st Team Regular
Charlotte Nichols causing a storm with an 'anti-traveller' leaflet.

Labour to destroy local election leaflet carrying anti-Travellers pledge
MP Charlotte Nichols apologises for offence and hurt caused by pamphlet distributed in Warrington North
Labour is to withdraw and destroy an election leaflet that made pledges about “dealing with Traveller incursions” after criticism over its use by a senior MP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...local-election-leaflet-anti-travellers-pledge

Incursion was probably a clumsy word and it has certainly riled the NIMBYS. The vast majority of people who have had to deal with travellers have generally had negative experiences. They are specialists at rocking up and destroying greenspaces that families like to enjoy and they certainly love to dabble in crime.
 

wittonite

I speak from a point of total ignorance
Charlotte Nichols causing a storm with an 'anti-traveller' leaflet.

Labour to destroy local election leaflet carrying anti-Travellers pledge
MP Charlotte Nichols apologises for offence and hurt caused by pamphlet distributed in Warrington North
Labour is to withdraw and destroy an election leaflet that made pledges about “dealing with Traveller incursions” after criticism over its use by a senior MP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...local-election-leaflet-anti-travellers-pledge

Incursion was probably a clumsy word and it has certainly riled the NIMBYS. The vast majority of people who have had to deal with travellers have generally had negative experiences. They are specialists at rocking up and destroying greenspaces that families like to enjoy and they certainly love to dabble in crime.
MPs, a species born without a backbone.
 

CDX_EIRE

Vital Football Hero
Going to buy a book called "What White People can do Next" to understand how Capitalism and Racism are conflated together. I keep seeing it more and more from people without finance and economics degree's identifying Capitalism as bad. Not that economists or financial people have a clue either. I just think they're less likely to actually understand how the world really works. And it goes without saying that capitalism isn't perfect but if we think people in western worlds with capitalism are worse off than socialist societies there's something really wrong.

Theres a book called "1989: The year that changed the world". It wasn't just the oppression of Eastern Europe that lead to the collapse it was the market economics too. People wanted a fair chance at a better life and 5 year planned economies didn't do it.

I also went down the rabbit-hole of reading about Neo-liberalism last night what's funny to me is its basically the same as free-market republican bullshit too.

This was all triggered by listening to the "Blindboy Podcast", he is interviewing Emma Dabiri who wrote the above book. Blindboy is an artist and while I appreciate him, his world view and creativity there is a lot of stuff that is too left for me. He's another lad who'd call himself a marxist.
 

Pangloss

Vital 1st Team Regular
I used to be a Marxist back in the day until I went on a tour of the following books:

Milton Friedman - Capitalism and Freedom
Friedrich Von Hayek - The Road to Serfdom
Joseph Schumpeter - Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (and his Theory of Economic Development).
Karl Popper - The Open Society and It's Enemies

Whilst I didn't adopt Friedman and Hayek's ideas nevertheless it helped be snap out of socialism. Marx for what it's worth has some brilliant works and theory of capitalism but his predictions were largely wrong and the idea of class conscious is total nonsense.

When it comes to the likes of Emma Dabiri, I not sure people pursuing PhD's in 'Visual Sociology' have all that much interesting to say.
 

Stephen Jay Hawkings

Vital Champions League
This was all triggered by listening to the "Blindboy Podcast", he is interviewing Emma Dabiri who wrote the above book. Blindboy is an artist and while I appreciate him, his world view and creativity there is a lot of stuff that is too left for me. He's another lad who'd call himself a marxist.
I used to like him, I think he did a good job in promoting mental health, especially amongst men, but then I saw how far left he was leaning after following him on Twitter.

He's just another "everybody who doesn't agree with me is right-wing" gobshite. He even blocked me on Twitter for asking him to clarify who he claimed to be far-right in a post calling for people to flag their own friends if they posted "far-right" content.
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
Going to buy a book called "What White People can do Next" to understand how Capitalism and Racism are conflated together. I keep seeing it more and more from people without finance and economics degree's identifying Capitalism as bad. Not that economists or financial people have a clue either. I just think they're less likely to actually understand how the world really works. And it goes without saying that capitalism isn't perfect but if we think people in western worlds with capitalism are worse off than socialist societies there's something really wrong.

Theres a book called "1989: The year that changed the world". It wasn't just the oppression of Eastern Europe that lead to the collapse it was the market economics too. People wanted a fair chance at a better life and 5 year planned economies didn't do it.

I also went down the rabbit-hole of reading about Neo-liberalism last night what's funny to me is its basically the same as free-market republican bullshit too.

This was all triggered by listening to the "Blindboy Podcast", he is interviewing Emma Dabiri who wrote the above book. Blindboy is an artist and while I appreciate him, his world view and creativity there is a lot of stuff that is too left for me. He's another lad who'd call himself a marxist.
I was in school with Emma for a year. I didn't get to know her though.

She talked about growing up in England her mother brought her up to be Irish so she expected that she'd be welcomed with open arms when they finally moved to Ireland. She wasn't. I don't think there were any major incidents of racism but Irish people were sceptical of a mixed race English girl saying that "I'm just like you".

She went back to England to become a professor of African studies.

She was born in England to an Irish mother and an African father. Does that make her English? Does it make her Irish? Does it make her African?

I think she tried hanging her identity on being Irish. When that didn't work out, she hung it on being African. I guess if that doesn't work out for her, she can become an English nationalist.
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
I used to like him, I think he did a good job in promoting mental health, especially amongst men, but then I saw how far left he was leaning after following him on Twitter.

He's just another "everybody who doesn't agree with me is right-wing" gobshite. He even blocked me on Twitter for asking him to clarify who he claimed to be far-right in a post calling for people to flag their own friends if they posted "far-right" content.
I used to listen to his podcast but I got sick of that political shite too. He criticises people of having jobs and buying cars and then the next minute he wants you to give him money on Patreon.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
I used to be a Marxist back in the day until I went on a tour of the following books:

Milton Friedman - Capitalism and Freedom
Friedrich Von Hayek - The Road to Serfdom
Joseph Schumpeter - Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (and his Theory of Economic Development).
Karl Popper - The Open Society and It's Enemies

Whilst I didn't adopt Friedman and Hayek's ideas nevertheless it helped be snap out of socialism. Marx for what it's worth has some brilliant works and theory of capitalism but his predictions were largely wrong and the idea of class conscious is total nonsense.

When it comes to the likes of Emma Dabiri, I not sure people pursuing PhD's in 'Visual Sociology' have all that much interesting to say.
The ideal system is a fairer capitalism that truly doesn't just favour those at the top (ie the richest have got significantly richer in recessions/Covid etc) but a fairer socialism that isn't just a 'blanket catch/safety net' that gets the old class discrimination going. It's got to be a fair leg up but not with punishments for not getting a job not blindly applying for enough jobs that you know you'll never get anyway. There should be more community tie in, charity work - help get people used to getting out the house and the rut, build confidence etc etc.

But you can't do either unless they go hand in hand.
 

CDX_EIRE

Vital Football Hero
I used to like him, I think he did a good job in promoting mental health, especially amongst men, but then I saw how far left he was leaning after following him on Twitter.

He's just another "everybody who doesn't agree with me is right-wing" gobshite. He even blocked me on Twitter for asking him to clarify who he claimed to be far-right in a post calling for people to flag their own friends if they posted "far-right" content.
I still listen to most of his podcast but I do groan when he talks about economy stuff.

They don't understand the basics of how the rich get richer, its not a mystery. If you have more you will make more. Compound Interest is literally a wonder. The rich can also take more risk than the rest of us. Boom bust economies are terrible and that's another reason they get richer while we don't however once you start to understand it you can use it to your advantage.

I definitely think we need more social programs so we can uplift people but rich people aren't inherently evil and neither are all corporations. Don't complain about Twitter, Amazon, Apple etc. and still use all of their programs and services. I'll admit its difficult to not use them indirectly but there are a lot of other services out there which aren't any of those companies.

Twitter for instance, he often complains how its a hell hole but usually that's how you use it. I have a very well curated group now that is helpful and uplifting. If you touch explosive topic's you'll get explosive comments. It shouldn't be that way but it is. Its like we talk about with the footballers, they just shouldn't have it because there are too many morons.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
Rather unexpectedly I'm yet to see a cop on Chauvin's trial not actually twist the knife.

I'd like to say hopefully this is the end of the 'without question' blue wall, but I don't think anything has actually changed other than Chauvin was so far out of order it really is undefensible.
 

CDX_EIRE

Vital Football Hero
I was in school with Emma for a year. I didn't get to know her though.

She talked about growing up in England her mother brought her up to be Irish so she expected that she'd be welcomed with open arms when they finally moved to Ireland. She wasn't. I don't think there were any major incidents of racism but Irish people were sceptical of a mixed race English girl saying that "I'm just like you".

She went back to England to become a professor of African studies.

She was born in England to an Irish mother and an African father. Does that make her English? Does it make her Irish? Does it make her African?

I think she tried hanging her identity on being Irish. When that didn't work out, she hung it on being African. I guess if that doesn't work out for her, she can become an English nationalist.
Having seen it first hand, its the hundred little small things that add-up. We typically don't notice them at first but they hurt people an incredible amount e.g. asking to touch their hair, touching their hair without permission etc. Those sort of things make them feel like objects.

I think she had every right to feel and to be Irish. I used to say plastic paddy but there is a percentage of people who are 100% Irish without the Irish accent. I remember when I lived in Birmingham this Kerryman who worked on site had a daughter who was every bit as Irish as me. It was her identity but she was born and raised in Birmingham.

Societally I think whether you grow up black in America, black in Ireland, black in England you'll always be identified by others as black first. I believe we've been conditioned that way and its nobodies fault but its again this dancing around it as if its not real that's an issue.

My GF is worried about this exact issue happening with our kids. She wants them to identify as black first and Irish second because she expects incredible hurt, sadness and disconnect with the world if they see themselves as Irish. Most Irish people won't accept a mixed race American as Irish. I won't say I blame Emma Dabiri's mother for it but she fucked up.

With that said we're getting into the complications of the world with the racial differences between America, Europe and Africa. On those 3 continents what it means to be black, how you're perceived and who will accept you are so different.