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Stephen Jay Hawkings

Stephen Jay Hawkings

Vital Football Legend
I was asked recently why I don't use my pronouns, when introducing myself or signing off a letter or email. My reply was basically people are free to use pronouns all they want, but it's something I don't do and never have.

This conversation was related to being compassionate towards other genders and identities etc. and using my preferred pronouns is a way of showing support and being an "ally". No matter what I said it was met with "but why not? what's the big deal?"

Has anyone any opinions on this? In my view, again, people are free to use them if they want. However if someone needs to see my pronouns to feel better about themselves, that's really not on me. And if it's a case of helping others to not misgender me, well I really don't care if that happened, because I'm not an entitled twat.

I couldn't really give a definitive answer though, that's the problem. I find it a bit creepy to be honest, someone basically asking you to change for the sake of others.

And for more context, she had just been to a convention a few days previously and sounded properly indoctrinated by woke ideology.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
I was asked recently why I don't use my pronouns, when introducing myself or signing off a letter or email. My reply was basically people are free to use pronouns all they want, but it's something I don't do and never have.
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Out of interest, how do you open and sign off on letters then!?

As for the question. I find it baffling. Sam Smith was on Graham Norton the other night and was referred to as their new song instead of his new song.

I think people have too much time to think these days, 100 years ago and more, people were busy working and trying to make ends meet or just survive, without worrying about whether they are gender fluid and a he/she/or an it.

Just as a caveat, we've come a long way in gay rights, so I'm not a total neanderthal!
 
The Fear said:
Out of interest, how do you open and sign off on letters then!?

As for the question. I find it baffling. Sam Smith was on Graham Norton the other night and was referred to as their new song instead of his new song.

I think people have too much time to think these days, 100 years ago and more, people were busy working and trying to make ends meet or just survive, without worrying about whether they are gender fluid and a he/she/or an it.

Just as a caveat, we've come a long way in gay rights, so I'm not a total neanderthal!
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I don't understand how transgender people feel and I don't wish to be unfair to them but I find it strange that they use they/them to refer to one person. Those words exist and have meanings. Why don't they invent new pronouns for themselves?
 
Sounds like you have been hit with a case of the "oral grammar police"

I suspect you will use pronouns without even realising it. Just not her type, of pronouns
 
I guess she's coming at it from the angle of a teacher, and to stop bullying we need to support these people by changing ourselves and how we do things just to accommodate them (a very small percentage).

I don't think I can fundamentally agree with any of what she says, because I don't agree with how kids are being taught in school these days anyway, it's all about protecting them from anything that might make them feel uncomfortable.

It's not how the real world works, the world is not a "safe space". They will be devoured.
 
The GF is studying for a Psy. D and we have a small apartment so both of us have to work in the same room most of the time. So I get to hear all sorts of what goes on in these doctoral programmes. I talk to her about it a good bit and I help her with some of her assignments. It's interesting, lots of this is obviously within that group space.

Thankfully she doesn't enforce this stuff on me however she does try to be in the habit of speaking this way. "Guys" is somewhat of an outlawed word and it's so funny because she's southern and could just say y'all which is genderless. The thing is "guys" can be used genderlessly too and people do use it that way a lot. However, I can understand that someone who does not identify as a man and has probably been referred to as a "guy" in the past is triggering or hurtful.

I totally agree with you SJH that we shouldn't automatically have to be or act a certain way in order to be perceived to be a "good" person.

I like that guy Zuby, he's very smart but he's equally dumb as a rock. I know you have heard or listen to guys like him so I feel you need to be grounded when listening to guys like him or Jordan Peterson too.

I am a massive believer in things always being closer to the middle than the extremes each side spouts. There is total horseshit leftists bring up such as allowing transitioned people to compete in sports of the opposite gender they were 'assigned'.

Edit: I also feel like I seem much more left / "woke" / liberal on this site than I actually am.

BodyButter said:
I don't understand how transgender people feel and I don't wish to be unfair to them but I find it strange that they use they/them to refer to one person. Those words exist and have meanings. Why don't they invent new pronouns for themselves?
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They have BB - have a google of it but there are more pronouns than she/her/he/him/they/theirs - there is a lot!
 
CDX_EIRE said:
The GF is studying for a Psy. D and we have a small apartment so both of us have to work in the same room most of the time. So I get to hear all sorts of what goes on in these doctoral programmes. I talk to her about it a good bit and I help her with some of her assignments. It's interesting, lots of this is obviously within that group space.

Thankfully she doesn't enforce this stuff on me however she does try to be in the habit of speaking this way. "Guys" is somewhat of an outlawed word and it's so funny because she's southern and could just say y'all which is genderless. The thing is "guys" can be used genderlessly too and people do use it that way a lot. However, I can understand that someone who does not identify as a man and has probably been referred to as a "guy" in the past is triggering or hurtful.

I totally agree with you SJH that we shouldn't automatically have to be or act a certain way in order to be perceived to be a "good" person.

I like that guy Zuby, he's very smart but he's equally dumb as a rock. I know you have heard or listen to guys like him so I feel you need to be grounded when listening to guys like him or Jordan Peterson too.

I am a massive believer in things always being closer to the middle than the extremes each side spouts. There is total horseshit leftists bring up such as allowing transitioned people to compete in sports of the opposite gender they were 'assigned'.

Edit: I also feel like I seem much more left / "woke" / liberal on this site than I actually am.



They have BB - have a google of it but there are more pronouns than she/her/he/him/they/theirs - there is a lot!
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It was almost like she was saying we are 75% good people but it's not enough. We need to become full blown activists or "allies" of the LGBT whatever and trans rights etc. Sounded like she was recruiting for the radical left. What didn't surprise me was how predictable everything she said was, I knew it would transition from gender to race and then she'd drop the straight white male bomb. It's the language of the woke, they aren't speaking as individuals they are just repeating the ideology. I find it disturbing to be honest.

And yes I like Zuby, but as you say, some things not so much. I do have a lot more time for Jordan Peterson though, I think his voice is essential in this stuff, and thank fuck he did what he did and has gone on the path he has. The way he has been treated and smeared has been an absolute disgrace. How dare he challenge the narrative with facts and history lessons.

And no CDX, never took you for a wokey blokey at all, lol
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
It was almost like she was saying we are 75% good people but it's not enough. We need to become full blown activists or "allies" of the LGBT whatever and trans rights etc. Sounded like she was recruiting for the radical left. What didn't surprise me was how predictable everything she said was, I knew it would transition from gender to race and then she'd drop the straight white male bomb. It's the language of the woke, they aren't speaking as individuals they are just repeating the ideology. I find it disturbing to be honest.

And yes I like Zuby, but as you say, some things not so much. I do have a lot more time for Jordan Peterson though, I think his voice is essential in this stuff, and thank fuck he did what he did and has gone on the path he has. The way he has been treated and smeared has been an absolute disgrace. How dare he challenge the narrative with facts and history lessons.

And no CDX, never took you for a wokey blokey at all, lol
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I doubt she was even giving you 75% TBH these things are black and white, no grey area allowed. Oh god don't go bringing in the Radical Left there Donald SJH Trump haha. If you're not active, not trying to make change and doing nothing you're part of the problem. It's again a problematic view. Its a beautiful ideal but you just turn people away when you push too hard.

I find it very militant, nobody thought these people the phrase "you catch more bee's with honey". I find firstly that the language is too academic for most to digest. Then when it is processed through some of these young kids minds it becomes very militant and aggressive.

Privilege and Microaggression etc. are things that are either terribly explained or just not explained at all like BLM and Defund the Police. When I say BLM I mean as a slogan not as an organization because that's a different problem. Those two slogans / phrases shouldn't be controversial once the context is understood.

I feel like so much of this stuff is developed and distilled either academically or by activists already entrenched in their fox holes that it isn't brought to a position it will be well understood. Maybe its because a huge part of my job is taking highly technical information and presenting it to people who do not understand it, but it seems obvious to me that they'd actually do this work, yet they dont.

For me privilege isn't controversial because I understand it and we all have privileges and varying degrees of it. There are things I benefit from I can't deny it, it's not my fault but its just how it is. What I can do is help to make changes and while I haven't done anything about I do intend to. I work for an Irish company and essentially it is an old boys club at the top. I was speaking to another Irish person I am friends with and she looks at the board and only see's Irish men. Beyond a certain level there are few women in power and no minorities in power. She can't see how she can ever get there so if she as an Irish woman thinks that, its a reasonable assumption to say that minorities who join our company are the same. We've lost a lot of good people on the West Coast to join rivals who are slightly more diverse. Its a big issue because its very hard to get people on the West Coast and trying to replace them is difficult.

I personally think not being diverse represents a huge opportunity loss. If everyone at board level has the same background, its not entirely a stretch to say they'll all think that way too. They've hired external consultants to mitigate this but with more diversity maybe you could save yourself some money and leverage that difference of viewpoints too. Anyway gone off on a tangent, just saying she came at it with the honey approach. Didn't attack me, tell me I am a straight white man and start complaining. She just said I know you understand and maybe you can help because it'll be better from another man than from some woman talking about equality. Sadly I think thats true.

So yeah I said a lot of stuff just to say this friend of yours could do with lightening up and speaking to you like you're actually a friend and not the enemy.
 
Yep, great post CDX, I totally agree.

I don't see how using terms such as "straight white male" and "white privilege" are supposed to help at all. In fact they do the opposite. And both can be dissected and torn apart anyway, like all blanket terms can be. Everything is complex.

I also agree privilege isn't a controversial thing, and yes we all have it in some way, but it extends beyond race and gender. Wealth is the biggest privilege you can have.

I think diversity is important in the ways you describe, how to get there properly is a different story and I don't think we know how to yet.
 
Straight white male and white privilege are surely phrases that still exist today but describe the past? (I realise I'm drawing a line there that doesn't yet fully exist).

The same thing now can be very easily thrown at positive discrimination. I more than see the reason for quotas, and positive discrimination as it stands but it has to be held to the account of 'best person for the job' not just ticking a box.

I think a previous chat CDX you mentioned your missus has some worries that she didn't get her position based on the best person available (apologies if I've got the wrong poster there) but that's an offshoot that was never imagined from a very credible drive.

It was about getting minorities through the door - not guaranteeing a job but equally we have to remember our bullshit press don't report this shit properly anyway.

All we know for sure is we haven't yet got this right.

To get a little bit more back on track, even the pie charters amongst us have come up with 17 different names for the same thing in terms of LBT etc etc etc and the pronoun game.

Much like the old straight gender/ethnicity arguments, they all want their own 'space' and they aren't arguing for equality, they want their time on top.

That doesn't fit with 99% of 'them' (read BLM, Muslems who object to being terrorists by colour, blacks as drug dealers, whites as honkey trash, Sikhs and Indians tagged as ISIS and so on) actually want.

The extremes come up with new ways of defining themselves to be special - 99% simply want to be equal. But we don't hear from the 99%, we hear from the **** nuttery 1% who shout loudest, inflame things, insult everyone else something rotten and then cry when someone says they are a ****.

And it's the **** nuttery who get in the press and make it sound like they are overrunning the country, there are no go areas, and England has been lost to immigrants whilst forgetting there's no such thing as an Englishman anyway.

I have a dog in this fight now - my opinion hasn't changed. We need to stop listening to the woke far left/right snowflakes and just simply get on with life as we always did.

And yes, ranting off, I also agree CDX. Defund the Police etc - if as me I can understand what that means and Americans can't - I worry for Americans. We've covered BLM the belief and then the group before - but it always comes down to soundbytes rather than education. Privilege or not, without going conspiracy head, it's down to the individual to try and educate themselves. I can only guess which jobs I got an interview for that others didn't - but I didn't get every job I went for either.

Sometimes you do have to look at yourself and rather than poor me, what can I do better. Everyone has biases it's just a fact of life but it doesn't mean you are institutionally *********** it could just be a bad experience you've never moved passed.
 
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I wrote two detailed responses then decided to delete them.

@mike yes, affirmative action is a negative psychological influence on some members of minority communities because it can cause them to doubt themselves. I'd say 9/10 its not a factor, at least in certain positions and schools because it would be too damaging to just give it to someone to fill a quota if they weren't the best person for the role. What I've learned in America is minorities have to be overqualified especially in Southern regions.

@Stephen Jay Hawkings yep privilege works in lots of ways and wealth almost levels the playing field. It can certainly makeup for a huge amount of issues and give you access to many resources. Doesn't stop discrimination, unfortunately.

To take it back to pronouns, the whole thing doesn't bother me but it is pretty nuanced. It's so out there that even the woke's trip themselves up with it. Sometimes "live and let live" is fine but woke people don't want that. I think its been said but being woke is like a new religion to people because so many people have given up on things to believe in.

The fact all these conversations are happening are proof of how great the world and the west is. These people are not thankful enough because these arent conversations in super difficult places to live like say Belarus or wherever else you want to pick. Same with anxiety, people who live in Sudan don't have time for generalized anxiety disorder. I think some of these problems and forces are created, lets fix a problem that isnt really there or at least doesnt exist in a world thats not almost perfect.

Could you imagine your friend asking someone from Chad or Suriname what their pronouns are? Life in the west ain't perfect and many are in terrible terrible situations but damn this is almost as good as it gets for most of us. And you know what people in general are doing their best, there are people really trying. But is my 65 year old father a bad person because he doesnt know what a pronoun is? Is he suddenly less than too?
 
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