Pre match protest on Tuesday | Page 3 | Vital Football

Pre match protest on Tuesday

We will have to agree to disagree on attendances OSK

2017- 18 we finished 17th with an average of 4870
2016-17 we finished 20th with an average of 5790

Without doubt our home gates this season are no where near those levels. The website I use has too many gaps to give an average for this season but hopefully those who go to home games would agree its a little over 4000.
 
Proof of the pudding will be a head count of the number of people outside and inside the ground at kick off time - which will be the greater number? I can't envisage the actual counting will take too long either way.
 
We will have to agree to disagree on attendances OSK

2017- 18 we finished 17th with an average of 4870
2016-17 we finished 20th with an average of 5790

Without doubt our home gates this season are no where near those levels. The website I use has too many gaps to give an average for this season but hopefully those who go to home games would agree its a little over 4000.

Not according to transfermarket.com.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-gillingham/besucherzahlenentwicklung/verein/2814

Not sure how accurate this seasons are (doesn’t look right although we had 2 crowds around 7k).

But previous years - 6.3 and 6.1k the 2 seasons around JEDS time when we were flying.

But then 5.3, 4.8, 5.1 and 4.8 k is not as much of a downturn as you propose. (Notice the 300 increase when we moved from relegation threatened under Lovell, to mid-table under SE). Except that we are now really struggling, so people will drift away. And it’ll get worse the more division in the crowd. That will only improve with wins.

We averaged just 5.4K back in 2014 when bottom half. So you could say we’ve gone down about 500 in 7 years (and will definitely be lower this season). That’s about right, and a trend we need to stop.

Anyway, we discussed this months ago, and as you said doesn’t look like we will agree.
 
I’m listening Mark but your arguments aren’t really landing with me.

Crowds are lower than pre-pandemic. I’m not convinced that it is because PS is the owner without a vision. It’s more likely that post-COVID some people are reluctant to return; and we’re scrapping it out near the bottom of the league. Like OSK said, if we were fighting for playoffs or top 3, attendances would be markedly higher.

You also said that change is needed to avoid Gillingham becoming the next Southend. He doesn’t have the resources to buy promotion - but, of all the owners in the FL, Scally runs a ‘steady ship’, makes sure we spend within our means, and keeps the lights on. Despite being in a tough place, we’re not going to be the next Southend or Aldershot because PS runs the club prudently.

I’m curious what the SOB will be protesting against. PS has admitted he doesn’t have the resources and will sell up. The SOB and PS are actually on the same message now. Maybe PS will join their protest!
 
Proof of the pudding will be a head count of the number of people outside and inside the ground at kick off time - which will be the greater number? I can't envisage the actual counting will take too long either way.

Agreed.

All they are going to achieve is making some supporters uncomfortable for supporting their club at the turnstiles; a bit of additional unnecessary policing cost.
 
I’m listening Mark but your arguments aren’t really landing with me.



You also said that change is needed to avoid Gillingham becoming the next Southend. He doesn’t have the resources to buy promotion - but, of all the owners in the FL, Scally runs a ‘steady ship’, makes sure we spend within our means, and keeps the lights on. Despite being in a tough place, we’re not going to be the next Southend or Aldershot because PS runs the club prudently.

But PS doesn't currently run a prudent ship because he's a good businessman, he runs prudent ship because he has to because he's run out of ways of financing the business through other people's money. He was quite happy to run up debts in the early years, but since the restructuring and its now his arse on the line (or he could lose out financially unlike before) he's become some prudent businessman. Strange how that's changed.
 
I didn't read it that way, which suggests it's not worded very well. If Captain is saying we can't borrow any more from institutions (not significantly, anyway), fair enough - but it would have been much better if he'd said that. There's all sorts of nuance in the way he's expressed it. With all the crap being spouted at the moment, we all have a responsibility on this score.
 
Talking of previous seasons and attendances.

I believe we lost at least 3k hard core fans in the seventies when the area was devastated by the loss of most of our manufacturing base plus dockyard. We never really recovered that loss and in fact that goes for everything in the area.

only recovered very slightly around the championship seasons. That's why the effort needs to be made in marketing.
 
Lancs - I'm clearly differentiating between specific scally out and similar chants to anything aimed at the players.

I still think moaning and groaning at missed chances or poor defending will have a far bigger impact on the players than "scally out".

Yes, I think a distinction needs to be made. I've no idea how much of a relationship there is between Scally and the players, but I can easily believe that many of our players will be completely indifferent to the fact that some of our fans want Scally out and choose to sing songs to that effect.

From what I've read, though, it does seem that the whole issue is creating a toxic atmosphere amongst the fans, and I certainly do think that that will have a negative effect on the players.
 
That's potentially libellous Captain. You're going to have to explain what you mean by that.

PS himself has said our borrowing capability is virtually nil unless we want to pay astronomical interest rates due to the restructuring.

The ground redevelopment was funded largely by FL grants at the time and our playing budget in our championship days were funded by running up a large debt.

Thats why now we have to run a prudent ship we don't have a pot to piss in. PS by his own admission doesn't have the funds to fund the club and I don't think he ever has tbh. What he did have was the ability to take on the initial guarantee when he took over. Most of what has been achieved on and off the pitch has been financed by loans or grants (ie other peoples money, not PS').
 
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But PS doesn't currently run a prudent ship because he's a good businessman, he runs prudent ship because he has to because he's run out of ways of financing the business through other people's money. He was quite happy to run up debts in the early years, but since the restructuring and its now his arse on the line (or he could lose out financially unlike before) he's become some prudent businessman. Strange how that's changed.

You acknowledge that he runs a prudent ship - which is something to celebrate in a world where football finances are crazy - especially in the Championship.

Why do you have go to such lengths to find a conflated way to criticise PS’s running of a tight ship! Beggars belief the amount of negativity.

For what it’s worth, I think PS would probably acknowledge his mistake of spending too much when ITV debacle and banking crisis unfolded. But get a grip man - it was ages ago. Water under the bridge and he’s learned the lessons!
 
You acknowledge that he runs a prudent ship - which is something to celebrate in a world where football finances are crazy - especially in the Championship.

Why do you have go to such lengths to find a conflated way to criticise PS’s running of a tight ship! Beggars belief the amount of negativity.

For what it’s worth, I think PS would probably acknowledge his mistake of spending too much when ITV debacle and banking crisis unfolded. But get a grip man - it was ages ago. Water under the bridge and he’s learned the lessons!

So you think he runs a tight ship out of choice?

He runs a tight ship out of necessity and because he's forced too.

History says if he could he'd spend more than we could afford again, why, because it made us successful and him popular.
 
I’m listening Mark but your arguments aren’t really landing with me.


(1) Scally runs a ‘steady ship’, makes sure we spend within our means, and keeps the lights on. Despite being in a tough place, we’re not going to be the next Southend or Aldershot because PS runs the club prudently.

(2) I’m curious what the SOB will be protesting against.


(1) It is true that he runs a steady ship and he deserves credit for keeping us afloat.

I guess my concern is that he isn't a miracle worker and lower incomes will make it harder and harder and I wish I had your confidence that we aren't going to be the next club to run out of wriggle room.

I believe (but happy to be corrected) that the last two published accounts (YE 19 and YE20) showed losses. YE 05/21 are likely to show a loss with next to no income and the current year YE 05/22 will be very interesting. I don't know what the break even figure is for gates but if we are hitting them I'd be shocked and relieved in equal measure.

We were always told that the conference facilities would be a real contributor to the club and through no one's fault that's been closed for nigh on three years.

I hope you are right that we won't be the next club to hit real financial troubles but I'm less confident.

I doubt if 2-3 years ago Southend ever invisaged themselves in non league though. One bad season in league 2 can be devastating.


(2) For me its an easy request now. Lower your expectations and hand over control to someone or a group who can take the club forward.
 
PS himself has said our borrowing capability is virtually nil unless we want to pay astronomical interest rates due to the restructuring.

The ground redevelopment was funded largely by FL grants at the time and our playing budget in our championship days were funded by running up a large debt.

Thats why now we have to run a prudent ship we don't have a pot to piss in. PS by his own admission doesn't have the funds to fund the club and I don't think he ever has tbh. What he did have was the ability to take on the initial guarantee when he took over. Most of what has been achieved on and off the pitch has been financed by loans or grants (ie other peoples money, not PS').
So what you are trying to say is, normal business practice.
When any corporations are looking at expanding (getting promotion) they usually raise funds.
Maybe you think it’s normal for company chairmen to put their own money into a business.
I’ll help you out.
It’s not.
Try to remember how much of the Glazers own funds went into the purchase of Man Utd.
Again I’ll help you out
Zip
 
So what you are trying to say is, normal business practice.
When any corporations are looking at expanding (getting promotion) they usually raise funds.
Maybe you think it’s normal for company chairmen to put their own money into a business.
I’ll help you out.
It’s not.
Try to remember how much of the Glazers own funds went into the purchase of Man Utd.
Again I’ll help you out
Zip

Footballs not normal business.

One minute your arguing PS is a prudent businessman the next you're arguing it's normal business practice to rack up debts, that in our case we couldn't repay.

Would you trust PS to run a business of yours?
 
Footballs not normal business.

One minute your arguing PS is a prudent businessman the next you're arguing it's normal business practice to rack up debts, that in our case we couldn't repay.

Would you trust PS to run a business of yours?
Nope 👎
 
(1) It is true that he runs a steady ship and he deserves credit for keeping us afloat.

I guess my concern is that he isn't a miracle worker and lower incomes will make it harder and harder and I wish I had your confidence that we aren't going to be the next club to run out of wriggle room.

I believe (but happy to be corrected) that the last two published accounts (YE 19 and YE20) showed losses. YE 05/21 are likely to show a loss with next to no income and the current year YE 05/22 will be very interesting. I don't know what the break even figure is for gates but if we are hitting them I'd be shocked and relieved in equal measure.

We were always told that the conference facilities would be a real contributor to the club and through no one's fault that's been closed for nigh on three years.

I hope you are right that we won't be the next club to hit real financial troubles but I'm less confident.

I doubt if 2-3 years ago Southend ever invisaged themselves in non league though. One bad season in league 2 can be devastating.


(2) For me its an easy request now. Lower your expectations and hand over control to someone or a group who can take the club forward.

PA has built a business that is well diversified. Football, conferencing, banqueting, education so I guess that will help with the longer term stability. I look at some other clubs like Cambridge... ...tiny little ground and I do t think they have any other income streams.

I’d love a rich benefactor to come along and spaff his/her cash on promotion. But, realistically, it’s not going to happen in the near term. But the real issue here, as I’ve said before, if not that PS doesn’t have the cash... ...the real issue is that football governance is fucked. Too many clubs spending what they don’t have.

I won’t hold my breath but I hope something tangible comes out of the Tracy Crouch review otherwise it will be thr demise of lower league football.
 
I’m listening Mark but your arguments aren’t really landing with me.

Crowds are lower than pre-pandemic. I’m not convinced that it is because PS is the owner without a vision. It’s more likely that post-COVID some people are reluctant to return; and we’re scrapping it out near the bottom of the league. Like OSK said, if we were fighting for playoffs or top 3, attendances would be markedly higher.

The COVID impact should be quite easy to work out - have attendances at other clubs in the league (all of whom will have gone through exactly the same) been similarly affected?

The "more people would go if we were doing better, so it isn't the chairman's fault...." argument is a bit chicken and egg. Who is responsible for a teams performance and the product that is being provided?