Positive discrimination

  • Thread starter Villan Of The North
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Villan Of The North

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Is any discrimination positive? Is there a place for quotas? Do those being discriminated in favour of feel patronised? What is the effect on deserving people that miss out because they are not part of the group being favoured?

Thoughts?
 
In an ideal world, no to quotas. Everyone should start with an equal chance.

However, knowing people, that doesn't seem to be possible. I'm still not sure quotas are the solution, as they create resentment against the very demographic they're trying to help.

I think we should just shoot anyone who discriminates against any group based on race, colour, creed or anything else nonsensical.

I exclude morbidly obese people walking down the road eating chips. They are fair game.
 
Yes but it has to be about highlighting the discrimination already in place, and it should be positive discrimination based on an otherwise like for like situation.

ie where the discrimination wouldn't rear it's head because of talent, credentials, smarts etc.

Unfortunate for those who miss out absolutely, but the luck of the draw means with discrimination they have 5-10 other options the person getting the positive discrimination wouldn't have.

I know folks on the arse end of it and they had their period feeling like the white male was now the only discriminated class, but it didn't take them long to realise (in some cases they had 3 interviews a day) that they still had something booked for tomorrow and then it dawned.

Positive discrimination for the sake of being politically correct though - no. You can forgive experience because of the discrimination but you've got to warrant the job to begin with in a fair playing field.

And I don't know of many cases where wage offered based on experience wasn't fair in light of relevant experience.
 
I remember at Uni the one year I was student rep (told it was good for the cv!) and a lecturer was arguing the entrance requirements for Asians should be lowered. I said that was appalling and I was accused of being racist. I countered the argument saying to the lecturer that in actual fact they were being racist suggesting that for Asians to be able to enter uni you'd need to lower the entrance requirements.

It went into quite a long rant by me and no other lecturers or students said anything at all. At the end of the meeting a few lecturers came up and congratulated me on what I'd said. I told them I wasn't interested in their thanks / congrats as they should have backed me up during the meeting.

It was an attempt at positive discrimination that to me was actually very condescending and negative.

 
I think the point about "positive discrimination" being condecending is moot for many in society today, it seems that the vast majority are not only willing to take a hand-out for something not earned but many actively seek it, the concept of pride in achievment is faultering.

Here in Norway there is positive discrimination to get men to work as nursary assistents as it's a female dominated profession. This got me thinking, why? When a profession is dominated by one gender or ethnicity or other grouping, is it desirable to artificially stimulate a more diverse grouping? What are the advantages? I'm all for equal opportunity, equal pay for equal work and equal treatment but beyond that, surely not every profession needs diversity.

I accept the argument that certain qualifications might be gender or racial specific, for example, a community police officer in Handsworth is far more likely to be successful if they are black or asian and as such the police might want to specify that they need a certain number of black or asian police but that is about qualification for the job, just like there was (not sure if it still exists) a height requirement for the police or the need for 20/20 uncorrected vission for fighter pilots, these are geneticly controlled matters that are still acceptable job qualifications.

 
Yes, but to imply for Asians to be able to go to Uni the Uni would have to lower the entrance requirements (just for them, not for all) is racist and condescending.

If you aren't good enough to go to Uni (no matter what race, colour or creed) then you need to look at other options.
 
Agree re nursery teachers etc, no need at all to worry about what dominates many professions but as you say, the community police officer example, again, agreed.

I think what is needed, what we are using and what 'they' don't is common sense!
 
The Fear - 13/10/2017 09:45

Yes, but to imply for Asians to be able to go to Uni the Uni would have to lower the entrance requirements (just for them, not for all) is racist and condescending.

If you aren't good enough to go to Uni (no matter what race, colour or creed) then you need to look at other options.
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Yep, totally agree. And to be fair to the Norwegian nursary policy, the positive discrimination only comes into play when there are two otherwise equal candidates, if a woman is better qualified then she will normally get the job. I'm just unsure why it's even desirable to have a balanced cross section of society in each job, surely it should be based on a combination of qualification, aptitude, performance in previous positions, performance in the interview process and desire to actually do the job. Everything else should be irrelevant.

 
The Fear - 13/10/2017 09:53

Agree re nursery teachers etc, no need at all to worry about what dominates many professions but as you say, the community police officer example, again, agreed.

I think what is needed, what we are using and what 'they' don't is common sense!
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Common sense and for people to stop discriminating in the more traditional sense.


 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 12/10/2017 23:52

In an ideal world, no to quotas. Everyone should start with an equal chance.

However, knowing people, that doesn't seem to be possible. I'm still not sure quotas are the solution, as they create resentment against the very demographic they're trying to help.
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I have the same attitude towards quotas, I'm pretty sure it's very demoralising for the person that misses out when they know they are the best candidate (which, I'll grant you, is not always easy to know) How much talent do we loose bacause of "positive discrimination"?
 
All discrimination is based on the idea that one group is less than another. Positive discrimination is an oxymoron. It's just discrimination.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 12/10/2017 22:26

Of course, none of this applies to lizards. They get all the top jobs, as they always have done.
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Is it something to do with the length of their tongues?

:17:


 
If a company truly believed in not discriminating, wouldn't they make a job application name anonymous? That way, you bring the people in who have the most relevant qualifications and experience - or am I missing something here.

There's a lot of overt positive discrimination on TV ads at the moment which actually slightly irritates me. I don't think a corporate bluechip PLC is racist if they show a white family, now every advert has a black husband, white wife and mixed race kid just in case it touches a nerve.
 
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