Politics and football.

[richymac]

Not got an answer still? There is no reason. I know that. You know that.

Do I have to say again... Nobody is saying all lives don’t matter. Literally nobody.

Black Lives matter because they’ve been subjugated for centuries and we have to realise that black people in our society do matter.

so whilst there are problems for all of us. Black lives need extra help. It’s really really simple and you shouldn’t need me to point it out.

 

[richymac]

So you agree with our point. You just have an issue with the name. That's fair, but All Lives Matter has already been linked to far right racist assholes. So it's too late for that and BLM has the momentum. It's already caught on man, it clearly hasn't faded away considering this has been going on since 2016

This exactly!

 

[moonay]

I have found that wlm has been hijacked by the far right. In fact it was pretty much started by extremists.

Alm has now been dragged into it by them. Whether that’s positive or not it has happened. And as ever we have been divided as a society due to it. It fits into the tactics of the last few years. Divide and conquer.

By your own logic then, if they'd have chosen either ALM or BLMtoo in the first place, then it would have been less divisive ......... wouldn't it?

 

[moonay]

You can’t even use punctuation, imagine saying all that in one breath. There’s some education. Happy to help.

Richy, the "and" in the middle of the sentence effectively acts as a comma. In fact, though people often include a comma after the word "and", it's not actually necessary, (but not like then, as "and" wasn't being used in it's normal context), so the sentence is structured quite reasonably to be fair.

Admittedly, he sometimes talks bollocks, but it's normally quite well punctuated.

 

[richymac]

By your own logic then, if they'd have chosen either ALM or BLMtoo in the first place, then it would have been less divisive ......... wouldn't it?

Yeah alm or blm would have been fine. However every time someone said blm there was always some idiotic ‘all lives matter’ response from the opposition.

I’ve seen and read it, it’s disgraceful. So alm is removed from the conversation because it was hijacked.

Similar to me not voting labour in the last election due to them being hijacked by anti-semites and Marxists.

 

[richymac]

Richy, the "and" in the middle of the sentence effectively acts as a comma. In fact, though people often include a comma after the word "and", it's not actually necessary, (but not like then, as "and" wasn't being used in it's normal context), so the sentence is structured quite reasonably to be fair.

Admittedly, he sometimes talks bollocks, but it's normally quite well punctuated.

Hmm I think the discourse marker was misplaced and an Oxford comma would have been a preferable alternative.

I got absolutely rinsed in uni for using ‘and’. It made my writing in essays way better.

 

[moonay]

Yeah alm or blm would have been fine. However every time someone said blm there was always some idiotic ‘all lives matter’ response from the opposition.

I’ve seen and read it, it’s disgraceful. So alm is removed from the conversation because it was hijacked.

Similar to me not voting labour in the last election due to them being hijacked by anti-semites and Marxists.

Your analogy re your vote just doesn't work. You say Labour was hijacked, but you seem not to see that ALM simply wasn't chosen ....... BLM was chosen instead. Only after this point could ALM (or WLM) be hijacked.

That's why BLM too would have been better.............or ALM, before it was hijacked.

 

[moonay]

Hmm I think the discourse marker was misplaced and an Oxford comma would have been a preferable alternative.

I got absolutely rinsed in uni for using ‘and’. It made my writing in essays way better.

Hmm, maybe you should have included a comma after your "hmm".

 

[richymac]

Your analogy re your vote just doesn't work. You say Labour was hijacked, but you seem not to see that ALM simply wasn't chosen ....... BLM was chosen instead. Only after this point could ALM (or WLM) be hijacked.

That's why BLM too would have been better.............or ALM, before it was hijacked.

Yeah my point is that is has been hijacked.

Could go round in circles with this all night. Chicken and egg.

 

[richymac]

Hmm, maybe you should have included a comma after your "hmm".

Hey, you’re spot on. It’s okay to be wrong innit.

 

[moonay]

Yeah my point is that is has been hijacked.

Could go round in circles with this all night. Chicken and egg.

No. We couldn't.

When BLM chose BLM, they had the option to go for either ALM, or BLMtoo. They chose neither. They went with BLM.

I'm not saying they're wrong, but they left the door wide open for the "hi-jacking" of ALM.

Simple really.

 

[moonay]

Hey, you’re spot on. It’s okay to be wrong innit.

I'll tell you if one day I am.


(You put that one on a plate Richy.....Ta).

 

[Made in Wigan]

You can’t even use punctuation, imagine saying all that in one breath. There’s some education. Happy to help.

When you say ‘I can’t use punctuation’ do you mean at all, or that you were unhappy with it in the above post?

The punctuation I used was perfectly fine. However ‘there’s in the above post is so wrong. Happy to help.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Admittedly, he sometimes talks bollocks, but it's normally quite well punctuated.

At least you acknowledge it’s only sometimes

 

[Wlatic]

I'll admit idk if BLM UK is the same as the north american one. So I'll have to research on that

BLM US is more about Socialism than the UK variant, because the UK already has a few more degrees than the USA.

My big disagreement with BLM is they are a political movement, they state this in their mission website, however they are using protests and cancel culture to further their aims, rather than setting up a party and seeing if they can get a degree of power.

Its funny you mention that BLM has been around since 2016. It has and it comes back every election cycle! Imagine that!

Funny that the UK and USA are considered as such bad places by organisations like BLM, with their systematic racism, lack of opportunity etc. and yet you still have people risking their lives to sneak into those countries.

 

[moonay]

Channel 4 right now........The school that tried to end racism.

Absolutely excellent.

 

[jeffs right]

As there ever been an interview with people overseas who want to enter this country. Posing the question of why on earth they would want to come here? There will possibly be quite a few people of various colour, ethnicity, religion etc etc who would like to make an home here.
Why oh why would they want to come to this country, a bastion of racial hatred and bigotry and a country which still displays inappropriate statues and displays everywhere you look.

 

[pauadrian]

As there ever been an interview with people overseas who want to enter this country. Posing the question of why on earth they would want to come here? There will possibly be quite a few people of various colour, ethnicity, religion etc etc who would like to make an home here.
Why oh why would they want to come to this country, a bastion of racial hatred and bigotry and a country which still displays inappropriate statues and displays everywhere you look.

I've never been to the UK but I used to be an illegal immigrant in the US as a kid. So I feel it's probably the same

My dad moved to the US because of the lack of job opportunities in Mexico, the economy is better in the US so he'd make more money over there to support his family. We moved back to Mexico once I had finished middle school so now I could be at an advantage over everyone else in Mexican schools. Some people either don't anticipate the racism or just think the economic and quality of life factor outweighs the racist bigots

 

[hindleymonwafc]

Regarding the killing of George and the subsequent furore over the tweeting of the anti-semitic article a report from the Middle East condemns Starmers knee jerk reaction by saying so Black Lives Matter but Palestinian ones don't ?

Which is an example why BLM is too exclusive and will never be supported by the majority.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

We had 3 white gay people murdered for absolutely no reason in a terrorist attack in the UK - a black man killed by a police officer in another country over a month ago - look at the contrasting responses from the media, sports, activists, politicians, etc. We've had far more terrorist attacks and terrorist victims in this country in recent years than we have police brutality but we've got people by the thosands protesting and everyone focusing on the latter while rather indifferent to the former. We also have had a huge grooming gang scandal that appears never ending when thousands of girls were targeted for the colour of their skin and the perpetraitors were not arrested and events covered up due to fear of being called racist. So there is a lot of things going on all very concerning.

I'm sure evereryone has seen plenty of arguing over this issue on social media over the last week and read someone saying something along the following:
'Are the footballers going to have 'gay lives matter' on the back of their shirts this week? And we going to have protests about it? If not why not? Are the life of those 3 gay white people from the UK worth less than the life of 1 black man from another country?'

And this is exactly the problem of bringing politics into football and bringing identity into any injustice by refusing to treat every tradegy exactly the same for whatever reason - you make it potnetially look like some lives and groups do matter more than others and you start to breed division even if that isn't the intention.

When people say 'White Lives Matter' is a redundant statement due to something like 'white privlidge' while 'Black Lives Matter' is justified due to injustices they have faced - assuming you aren't a blind partizan it's very easy to see that is not a universally true statement and there are some very recent examples of injustices against both where being white didn't provide any privlidge. When people see this type of thing they are asking 'do white lives not matter?' as the 3 deaths of one identity last week over here got a fraction of the outrage or coverage as 1 identity did a month ago - you can't say they are on to nothing, regardless of other context there is still a valid point in there.

If it's ok to say race X lives matter and saying it is not an attack on race Y, then how can saying race Y lives matter is automatically an attack on race X without doing some mental gynmastics and exercising some double standards? There is a linguistic and logical incosnsitency there.

We keep being told 'no one is saying white lives don't matter' if that is the case then why has a lad flying a banner not been met with indifference, a shrug of the shoulders and people saying 'yeah we know that doesn't change our message' rather than the anger it has? Has the WLM banner not shown exactly the problem by highlighting potential intolerance on both sides to each others identity being referenced? Again you can argue context but there is a validity to the argument. If you want people to accept your persepctive you have to accept others even if you don't agree with it and if we do that it's very easy to see how the BLM movment can be felt to be devisive as the WLM counter slogan is being seen.

This is exactly the problem with identity politics - when we start to talk about one group identity other identities automatically become a factor and the more you talk about how different people are the more they will feel different and feel divided. I don't like the slogan 'White Lives Matter' in the same way i don't like the slogan 'Black Lives Matter' i think it adds needless division where none needs to exist and distracts from what the supposed actual goals are which are universal.

If the message is end police brutality and racism then that doens't just effect one group of people, even if it effects one group more than others it almost doesn't matter as the goal remains the same - to reduce and end those 2 behaviours against anyone. So if you want to end those things then you need as many examples of those things to leverage, you need as many vicitims to speak out and you need as many people on your side as possible - if it's an issue that can effect anyone why only talking about a those affected of one identity? And then why add in other unrelated things politically?

The George Floyd video was very daming and a powerful tool to campaign for changes in policing, but if you add that to the footage of the police murders of Daniel Shaver and Tony Timpa and the story of Justine Damond who was killed by a officer from the same department as the office that kneeled on Floyds kneck. That's 3 white Americans deaths you've probably not head much about - but they suffered the same fate as Floyd - if you add them to Floyd and the Philando Castil (another black American) the weight of evidence is overwhelming and would attract unopposed universal support as the videos show the undeniable issue. Why not do that?

I think the reason is - BLM is a Trojan horse radical political movment with a raft of policies that most wouldn't be on board with wrapped in a univerasally agreed civil rights movement. I think BLM corporation know if they wanted to focus on the civil rights they'd be onto a real winner with universal support but i think they want to conflate it together as they see this as a vehicile to make money, attain influence and mainstream aspects of their agenda that otherwise wouldn't get consideration.

No to racism, no to police brutality and no to both WLM and the BLM organisation for me. You only make progress when you talk about what unites and you don't do that by talking about people being in different groups. There is a good message in here but the water is being muddied by political opportunitsts for their own means that go way beyond what the vast majority of people promoting 'black lives matter' are intersted in.