Police on police bullying and racism (FAO nobs, partly) | Page 8 | Vital Football

Police on police bullying and racism (FAO nobs, partly)

To suggest it does is just a strawman argument.

There will always be opposition to the system, rightly so, as it ensures transparency. But the reason the current system is in place is because the majority of the public wants it that way. I think, generally, it helps a lot of folk, not all folk (!) feel safer.
 
There will always be opposition to the system, rightly so, as it ensures transparency. But the reason the current system is in place is because the majority of the public wants it that way. I think, generally, it helps a lot of folk, not all folk (!) feel safer.

The old, "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear", line.

Yes, I know that one well, heard it before, etc., etc.
 
Whilst on the subject of policing, the public should be concerned about the recent Police National Computer (PNC) data-loss reports all over the media.

Reports suggest that several hundred thousand records have been "lost" from the PNC. Records pertaining to Arrests should be retrievable via other systems, what concerns me the most is the apparent data loss pertaining to DNA.

Police IT is generally not up to scratch and generally subject of £millions of profligacy. Until such time as policing in England & Wales adopts the organisational infra-structure as seen in Scotland, too much English & Welsh public money will be lost down the drains.

you are correct. In general government IT contracts and ongoing support is poor compared to the private sector. Contracts given out to the same old big companies who go over budget and do not even deliver whats asked for.
It is also hard for competent it people from the private sector to get into the public sector - bit of a closed shop of incompetents and the offshoring and outsourcing of support roles makes it worse as the name of the game is to cut corners for the bottom line giving a minimal service.

On the lost data, this is not human error but process error. the norm is for one backup to be taken daily as a minimum plus one weekly one monthly or a variation of this method. There is then a service agreement as to the service and recovery time of a syatem obviously with all of the restore processes.
if this happened when a major system upgrade was underway then a backout plan would be in place.
on top of this all organisations are supposed to have a disaster recovery plan.

this is all absolute minimum support procedure so there are no excuses for it except total incompetence or extreme corner cutting. I have never worked anywhere in it where the basics were not supposed to be in place.
I suspect bad management, cost cutting etc is the real cause and therefore the cover up. Seen it over and over again especially where outsourcing has happened but management will cover each other.
 
you are correct. In general government IT contracts and ongoing support is poor compared to the private sector. Contracts given out to the same old big companies who go over budget and do not even deliver whats asked for.
It is also hard for competent it people from the private sector to get into the public sector - bit of a closed shop of incompetents and the offshoring and outsourcing of support roles makes it worse as the name of the game is to cut corners for the bottom line giving a minimal service.

On the lost data, this is not human error but process error. the norm is for one backup to be taken daily as a minimum plus one weekly one monthly or a variation of this method. There is then a service agreement as to the service and recovery time of a syatem obviously with all of the restore processes.
if this happened when a major system upgrade was underway then a backout plan would be in place.
on top of this all organisations are supposed to have a disaster recovery plan.

this is all absolute minimum support procedure so there are no excuses for it except total incompetence or extreme corner cutting. I have never worked anywhere in it where the basics were not supposed to be in place.
I suspect bad management, cost cutting etc is the real cause and therefore the cover up. Seen it over and over again especially where outsourcing has happened but management will cover each other.


"In general government IT contracts and ongoing support is poor compared to the private sector".

It`s more de-centralised than that. Individual police forces commit millions of pound on separate IT systems. Some collaborate but the majority run their own systems - it`s a huge waste of money in consultation, procurement, maintenance and civilian staff. It`s created lots of individual IT empires and systems that don`t talk to each other and is profligacy in the extreme. There is an expanding over-arching system called the Police National Database (this is different from the Police National Computer - which is subject of the data loss) but it doesn`t stop the individual empires from flourishing.



"On the lost data, this is not human error but process error. the norm is for one backup to be taken daily as a minimum plus one weekly one monthly or a variation of this method"

This latest instance is a human error. The problem was in the weeding selection and would have involved people making direct transactions. Weeding is a process that occurs constantly. I won`t go into the PNC back-up details, save to say that, there are ample safeguards in place and these safeguards would be able to correct any accidental or malicious "attack". ,


"this is all absolute minimum support procedure so there are no excuses for it except total incompetence or extreme corner cutting"

PNC is managed in-house. The issue we`re discussing is more likely to be down to incompetence/poor training than anything else. I don`t know what the staffing levels are at PNC but would guess they are lower than required. But it is also the case that this particular data problem could have been caused by someone outwith the actual PNC central location (which is in the London area) as forces up and down the country can directly upload data. I am not aware of the precise nature of the error so, other than it appears to be a human era, I can`t explore any deeper.


But my main point, is the awful profligacy in the police service in England & Wales and I would re-iterate that until we go down the road traveled by the Police Service of Scotland, we are unnecessarily throwing away millions of pounds annually, not to mention failing to provide a better service in general.
 
"In general government IT contracts and ongoing support is poor compared to the private sector".

It`s more de-centralised than that. Individual police forces commit millions of pound on separate IT systems. Some collaborate but the majority run their own systems - it`s a huge waste of money in consultation, procurement, maintenance and civilian staff. It`s created lots of individual IT empires and systems that don`t talk to each other and is profligacy in the extreme. There is an expanding over-arching system called the Police National Database (this is different from the Police National Computer - which is subject of the data loss) but it doesn`t stop the individual empires from flourishing.



"On the lost data, this is not human error but process error. the norm is for one backup to be taken daily as a minimum plus one weekly one monthly or a variation of this method"

This latest instance is a human error. The problem was in the weeding selection and would have involved people making direct transactions. Weeding is a process that occurs constantly. I won`t go into the PNC back-up details, save to say that, there are ample safeguards in place and these safeguards would be able to correct any accidental or malicious "attack". ,


"this is all absolute minimum support procedure so there are no excuses for it except total incompetence or extreme corner cutting"

PNC is managed in-house. The issue we`re discussing is more likely to be down to incompetence/poor training than anything else. I don`t know what the staffing levels are at PNC but would guess they are lower than required. But it is also the case that this particular data problem could have been caused by someone outwith the actual PNC central location (which is in the London area) as forces up and down the country can directly upload data. I am not aware of the precise nature of the error so, other than it appears to be a human era, I can`t explore any deeper.


But my main point, is the awful profligacy in the police service in England & Wales and I would re-iterate that until we go down the road traveled by the Police Service of Scotland, we are unnecessarily throwing away millions of pounds annually, not to mention failing to provide a better service in general.

understand what you describe entirely. Even if there was some individual errors it should never cause the level of disruption and lack of recovery for individual elements.
what you describe is the situation in major mergers or takeovers and i have worked on massive ones with multiple centralised and localised IT and probably include different systems and departments from previous incomplete mergers. I worked on centralising the data, support and it departments and systems from four merged companies but including the year 2k issue.
We are talking hundreds of systems including the recall of data from the retired systems - all completed in 18months.
as the year 2k and the threat of closure of company plants were at stake the amount of money and resources used were all made available and that is the problem here. The government will either not put the money forward or will give the contract to a large friendly previously failed company with poor contracts applied resulting in overspend and overrun for a reduced spec system.

a simpler and cheaper option is often to just use an existing system and force through the changes (not sure if the Scottish systems could be used) but my experience is the human nature is to oppose either because of the 'not invented here' or 'no fame for me in adopting it'.
 
a simpler and cheaper option is often to just use an existing system and force through the changes (not sure if the Scottish systems could be used) but my experience is the human nature is to oppose either because of the 'not invented here' or 'no fame for me in adopting it'.

If the police were a limited company it would have gone bust many years ago.
Also, in the police service there are far too many "empires" being run by highly paid civilian and high ranking police officers whose agenda are far closer to home than they are to the public good.
 
If the police were a limited company it would have gone bust many years ago.
Also, in the police service there are far too many "empires" being run by highly paid civilian and high ranking police officers whose agenda are far closer to home than they are to the public good.

Yup it was the same in the private sector, bit less so now. Human nature at work lol.
 
The letter may or may not be fraudulent. It's definitely anti-lockdown in tone and I reckon '58 was having a joke when he suggested that it was Toby Young who wrote it.

Toby Young is not a copper but he is definitely a prick. He is anti-lockdown and he set up a dating agency for like-minded covid sceptics:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ite-wins-hearts-of-social-distancing-sceptics

He is also set up the Free Speech Union which is more sinister than it sounds:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ampaign-over-role-of-toby-young-founded-group

If you need any more convincing, read this and you'll realise that he's always been a prick.
View attachment 45215
Thanks Buddha. Yes it was a joke and yes, Yoing is a massive prick and just been censured for his fraudulent writings in the Telegraph re the Covid crisis. In fact I think the bloke is dangerous. Wouldn't surprise me if he was an admirer of mega bellend Laurence Fox.
 
Cheers, I reckon that's all true. I bet the police will cover it up though, and the (white) police complaints team will clear them saying it isn't backed up by the video evidence.

If his family had their wits about them they would have taken photos of the bite marks. I wonder whether these were human or dog bites?

Re: Mohamud Hassan

Petition calling for IOPC to immediately release all police officer body cam and CCTV footage relating to the initial arrest, transport to Cardiff Police station and subsequently detention and release, without charge of Mr Hassan, here:

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...nk&share=f817656f-1858-4fcf-9ae9-67cc17e99ee3
 
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