Points deductions in general

[BlackGold]

Of course you would think this, you want horrible things to happen to Forest, hence wanting Cooper out.

Of course I don’t, buddy, but it’s a bit naive to think any other penalty, apart from losing points, will work/is “fair”.

Football clubs are solely geared towards the First team: everything.
As such, finance is inextricably linked to the sporting field; and why governing bodies penalise cheats in the only manner that truly works: a points penalty…the rest of it, fines, embargoes just won’t work.

Look at Prem spending in January just gone as evidence to the fact.

As Mao states, it’s the implementation and coherence of the rulings that need work, not the penalties itself.

 

[pebble]

CBA to read the commission's report but I gather that:

the EPL surprised Forest by saying they couldn't exclude promotion bonuses and they could hardly have anything for covid losses (while Everton claimed £100 million?), so the promotion season would put them in breach of the three year limit.

This gave Forest a month to sell one or more players to cover the shortfall, but they refused to be bullied and took two months longer to sell BJ (mainly because Spurs made us wait).

To penalise us in that context seems very harsh.

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

This gave Forest a month to sell one or more players to cover the shortfall, but they refused to be bullied and took two months longer to sell BJ (mainly because Spurs made us wait).

To penalise us in that context seems very harsh.

Always someone else's fault but our own?

 

[LynxRed]

Always someone else's fault but our own?

If you take what you're given this readily, I'm sure @AdebolaCornflakes and @Apollyon will give you a royal welcome to trap 2.

Whatever you think about the rights or wrongs we will benefit far more from fostering a sense of outrage and anger. We need to be a wounded animal fighting for its life, not a naughty puppy cowering in the corner after a telling off.

 

[Apollyon]

Always someone else's fault but our own?

I suppose the context that people need to understand is the club were very aware that what that meant, as they had open dialogue with the EPL who appear to be stoic in their response, and the club ignored it.

I know everyone is feeling hard done by because of the likes of city and chelsea, but its not a level playing field, and the club agreed to these rules.

Reckless? No
Trying it on? Yes


Trap 2 with HIM? no thanks

 

[LynxRed]

I suppose the context that people need to understand is the club were very aware that what that meant, as they had open dialogue with the EPL who appear to be stoic in their response, and the club ignored it.

I know everyone is feeling hard done by because of the likes of city and chelsea, but its not a level playing field, and the club agreed to these rules.

Reckless? No
Trying it on? Yes


Trap 2 with HIM? no thanks

"The club agreed to these rules"

Forest had no say in these rules, not having been an EPL team when they were brought in. They had no choice, upon promotion, but to accept those rules. It does not mean Forest agreed to them or liked them.

I'll bang this drum for the rest of the season. Get angry, make noise in the stadium, get the atmosphere boiling over and let's start getting some points on the board. It's our best way out of this mess.

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

Whatever you think about the rights or wrongs we will benefit far more from fostering a sense of outrage and anger. We need to be a wounded animal fighting for its life, not a naughty puppy cowering in the corner after a telling off.

Agreed that's the managers job to ensure it happens

EM might want to have a word or two with the players as well

Siege mentality needs to kick in

 

[AdebolaCornflakes]

If you take what you're given this readily, I'm sure @AdebolaCornflakes and @Apollyon will give you a royal welcome to trap 2.

Whatever you think about the rights or wrongs we will benefit far more from fostering a sense of outrage and anger. We need to be a wounded animal fighting for its life, not a naughty puppy cowering in the corner after a telling off.

Go to hell sick freak

 

[Geedo61]

CBA to read the commission's report but I gather that:

the EPL surprised Forest by saying they couldn't exclude promotion bonuses and they could hardly have anything for covid losses (while Everton claimed £100 million?), so the promotion season would put them in breach of the three year limit.

This gave Forest a month to sell one or more players to cover the shortfall, but they refused to be bullied and took two months longer to sell BJ (mainly because Spurs made us wait).

To penalise us in that context seems very harsh.

Nailed on

 

[Geedo61]

Always someone else's fault but our own?

Is it our fault that EFL accepted our 2021/22 accounts and the EPL overruled that on 08th of June 2023?

 

[radfordinlondon]

Does deliberately ignoring the rules constitute cheating? If so, then we did; if not, because we have not tried to conceal it, then we did not. But is a player who deliberately makes a professional foul a cheat? I would say yes.

I'm happy to acknowledge we broke the rules, not least cos we have admitted we did. nevertheless whatever we did or did not do does not change the fact that the 'rules' are not fit for purpose. this has been acknowledged as the rules are now changing. the fact we are being punished before others is neither justice nor sporting integrity.

If everyone else was happy to go along with this charade for 10 years then more fool them. someone should have called this out a long time ago.

 

[Apollyon]

"The club agreed to these rules"

Forest had no say in these rules, not having been an EPL team when they were brought in. They had no choice, upon promotion, but to accept those rules. It does not mean Forest agreed to them or liked them.

I'll bang this drum for the rest of the season. Get angry, make noise in the stadium, get the atmosphere boiling over and let's start getting some points on the board. It's our best way out of this mess.

I read there was a vote on it. I'll try and find the article when I get home.

 

[finbar70]

The bottom line here, is that if we survive we are going to have to sell 20-30m worth of player or players and not be able to bring anyone in to replace.

Its a tougher league next season, and we will be weaker going into it. It's almost pointless and futile actually being in this league right now, as we are unable and not allowed to try to and compete

 

[Thewolf/jimmygordon]

N

The bottom line here, is that if we survive we are going to have to sell 20-30m worth of player or players and not be able to bring anyone in to replace.

Its a tougher league next season, and we will be weaker going into it. It's almost pointless and futile actually being in this league right now, as we are unable and not allowed to try to and compete

We can sell and bring players in and split their payments out over multiple years

Like other clubs do

 

[BlackGold]

If i read the proposals for the PSR follow-up, would this be correct?

85% of turnover is the limit for registrations and salary contributions for a.n. other season.
Our turnover must be close to £150m equalling a cap of £127.5m expenditure per season.

Wages around 65-70m, that leaves (amortised) transfers upwards of £50m per season.

Question is, are historic registrations accrued within this new model?
Presumably yes - in which case, i imagine we'd have next to no funding available for new transfers, other than increasing revenue a la BJ and Mangala this season, and presumably Murillo and/or MGW next, which in turn can be re-invested towards strengthening the first team?

Obvs, increasing revenue streams <cough> new stadium - is the only other alternative.

So...nothing really changes?

Those without £300m+ turnovers (oresuming their salary burden is in check) have little to no room to manoeuvre, and the "Big 6/8" grow ever larger and more powerful.

Odd...

 

[Geedo61]

The bottom line here, is that if we survive we are going to have to sell 20-30m worth of player or players and not be able to bring anyone in to replace.

Its a tougher league next season, and we will be weaker going into it. It's almost pointless and futile actually being in this league right now, as we are unable and not allowed to try to and compete

That's not quite true.
We may have to sell someone by the end of June to comply with 2023/24 allowable losses.
Our current losses over the 3 yr period are £96m (16m/46m/34m) against an allowable loss of £61m (£13m/£13m/£35m) - £34m overspend
Our projected losses at the end of the season are £96m (£46m/£34m/£17m-projected) against an allowable loss of £83m - £13m overspend - this is why we need to sell someone by the end of June
Assuming they don't change the rules for next season
The new accounting period period starts on July 1st at which point our allowable losses would go up to £105m over 3 rolling years and our loss of £46m for 2021/22 will now be out of the calculation.

Accounting period - 22/23, 23/24, 24/25
Allowable loss - £105m
Actual Losses
22/23 - £34.5m
23/24 - Breakeven (by selling selling a player by end of June for circa £13m)
24/25 - £70m (allowable but not recommended as this will be carried forward for next 3 years)

That just about makes sense to me - Can someone please check my logic

 

[finbar70]

That's not quite true.
We may have to sell someone by the end of June to comply with 2023/24 allowable losses.
Our current losses over the 3 yr period are £96m (16m/46m/34m) against an allowable loss of £61m (£13m/£13m/£35m) - £34m overspend
Our projected losses at the end of the season are £96m (£46m/£34m/£17m-projected) against an allowable loss of £83m - £13m overspend - this is why we need to sell someone by the end of June
Assuming they don't change the rules for next season
The new accounting period period starts on July 1st at which point our allowable losses would go up to £105m over 3 rolling years and our loss of £46m for 2021/22 will now be out of the calculation.

Accounting period - 22/23, 23/24, 24/25
Allowable loss - £105m
Actual Losses
22/23 - £34.5m
23/24 - Breakeven (by selling selling a player by end of June for circa £13m)
24/25 - £70m (allowable but not recommended as this will be carried forward for next 3 years)

That just about makes sense to me - Can someone please check my logic

Makes sense and hence if we are to buy players we will need to sell more

 

[splitty62]

That's not quite true.
We may have to sell someone by the end of June to comply with 2023/24 allowable losses.
Our current losses over the 3 yr period are £96m (16m/46m/34m) against an allowable loss of £61m (£13m/£13m/£35m) - £34m overspend
Our projected losses at the end of the season are £96m (£46m/£34m/£17m-projected) against an allowable loss of £83m - £13m overspend - this is why we need to sell someone by the end of June
Assuming they don't change the rules for next season
The new accounting period period starts on July 1st at which point our allowable losses would go up to £105m over 3 rolling years and our loss of £46m for 2021/22 will now be out of the calculation.

Accounting period - 22/23, 23/24, 24/25
Allowable loss - £105m
Actual Losses
22/23 - £34.5m
23/24 - Breakeven (by selling selling a player by end of June for circa £13m)
24/25 - £70m (allowable but not recommended as this will be carried forward for next 3 years)

That just about makes sense to me - Can someone please check my logic

Do we know for sure that the projected loss for this year of up to £17m includes the £42.5m sale of BJ or not?

 

[BlackGold]

Do we know for sure that the projected loss for this year of up to £17m includes the £42.5m sale of BJ or not?

Why would a projection not include all revenue?

I would assume why its projected is owing to NFFC not knowing what our final league position will be (therefore prize money), if we'll have any more TV matches, any bonuses that might be payable, attendances etc etc

 

[splitty62]

Why would a projection not include all revenue?

I would assume why its projected is owing to NFFC not knowing what our final league position will be (therefore prize money), if we'll have any more TV matches, any bonuses that might be payable, attendances etc etc

only because they may be sticking with the position that BJ sale was part of last years accounts until any appeal is processed, and by projected it to be part of following year we are accepting it shouldn't be counted in prior year.