Poch to Manure..according to the Sun's Neil Ashton. | Page 4 | Vital Football

Poch to Manure..according to the Sun's Neil Ashton.

walmsley73096 said:
Granted, those were two opportunities missed. Our unexpected involvement in a title race showed on those occasions. But I still don't get why a Spurs fan jumps on the 'bottled it' bandwagon. The media loved to paint it that way. Of course, they all wanted Leicester to win it.
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We absolutely bottled it

Add Leicester at home to that as well.

Leicester won the thing, so us being unexpected doesn’t really mean anything.
 
Topspur1 said:
I made the same argument when we lost the semifinal against Chelski, many on here accused the team of bottling it. I thought we played well and dominated for long spell, I just couldn't see how that equates to bottling it.
Every time we lose a game someone will accuse the team of bottling, it's almost like a reflex action.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that so many on this forum are simply delusional, they continual accuse Poch of being a failure. When I read that I just have to wonder where they have been for the last 30 years, they obviously think we've been winning trophies left right and centre. Then along comes Poch and we haven't won a trophy for 4yrs, we qualified for the CL once since its conception prior to his arrival. He's qualified 3yrs on the bounce, but according to many that represents failure.
Our revenue has doubled since his arrival, a huge part of that is down to CL football. But that is seen as failure in some eyes.
We can now double the salaries of many of our players, yet another sign of failure.
CL football means the pressure of paying for our magnificent stadium is a little less.
CL football can only help to grow our fan base, is that a sign of failure?
IMO the club has made giant steps in the past few years, sad that so many can't see that and just want to level criticism at every opportunity.
I would say that I have been as frustrated by some decisions just like everyone else, does that mean I should air those frustration day after day after after day. Or do I make my point and move on?
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Kinygerbils said:
We absolutely bottled it

Add Leicester at home to that as well.

Leicester won the thing, so us being unexpected doesn’t really mean anything.
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I don't think it's fair to use Leicester unexpectedly being title challengers & eventual winners as a stick to beat us with. Why does losing a football match have to be described as 'bottling it'? Sometimes things just don't fall your way. That certainly happened to us that night at home to Leicester. We were 2 inches from taking the lead, then a few minutes later they went up the other end and scored from a corner. That was Leicester City all over that season.
 
Topspur1 said:
I made the same argument when we lost the semifinal against Chelski, many on here accused the team of bottling it. I thought we played well and dominated for long spell, I just couldn't see how that equates to bottling it.
Every time we lose a game someone will accuse the team of bottling, it's almost like a reflex action.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that so many on this forum are simply delusional, they continual accuse Poch of being a failure. When I read that I just have to wonder where they have been for the last 30 years, they obviously think we've been winning trophies left right and centre. Then along comes Poch and we haven't won a trophy for 4yrs, we qualified for the CL once since its conception prior to his arrival. He's qualified 3yrs on the bounce, but according to many that represents failure.
Our revenue has doubled since his arrival, a huge part of that is down to CL football. But that is seen as failure in some eyes.
We can now double the salaries of many of our players, yet another sign of failure.
CL football means the pressure of paying for our magnificent stadium is a little less.
CL football can only help to grow our fan base, is that a sign of failure?
IMO the club has made giant steps in the past few years, sad that so many can't see that and just want to level criticism at every opportunity.
I would say that I have been as frustrated by some decisions just like everyone else, does that mean I should air those frustration day after day after after day. Or do I make my point and move on?
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Couldn't agree more mate . This is the most successful period we have had for thirty odd years . Teams don't build themselves , academies don't build themselves , reputations don't build themselves , recognitions don't build themselves and state of the art training facilities and stadiums that are up there with anything in world football most certainly don't build themselves.
It wasn't that long ago when it took an eternity to reach the magical forty point safety mark in the league and we all breathed a sigh of relief that we weren't going down that season ,or at least the safe zone had been reached and it would all come good next season ,we hoped .
 
Real Deal said:
It's his 5th season here, realistically how much longer will he stay for? I don't take much notice of contracts. His new deal in the summer only means we will get more if he is poached.

It's a tricky situation. He is the only manager we have had that has been able to work with Levy. That will be virtually impossible to replace.

Who is good enough to come in here and win us a trophy? That is what it comes down to now. The names you mention Pollo are not who I want here.

Ideally he stays and gets backed 100% in the transfer market and he builds his second team here. If he isn't going to get that backing then, he will go.
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Apparently he has laid down the law to Levy and told him that he wants proven starters to be brought in, not potential for the future.
 
walmsley73096 said:
I don't think it's fair to use Leicester unexpectedly being title challengers & eventual winners as a stick to beat us with. Why does losing a football match have to be described as 'bottling it'? Sometimes things just don't fall your way. That certainly happened to us that night at home to Leicester. We were 2 inches from taking the lead, then a few minutes later they went up the other end and scored from a corner. That was Leicester City all over that season.
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I’ve given three examples.

Three chances to take the advantage of them

We didn’t.

We bottled the title

Great teams would have taken the advantage and won it.
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
Couldn't agree more mate . This is the most successful period we have had for thirty odd years . Teams don't build themselves , academies don't build themselves , reputations don't build themselves , recognitions don't build themselves and state of the art training facilities and stadiums that are up there with anything in world football most certainly don't build themselves.
It wasn't that long ago when it took an eternity to reach the magical forty point safety mark in the league and we all breathed a sigh of relief that we weren't going down that season ,or at least the safe zone had been reached and it would all come good next season ,we hoped .
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What happened 15/20 years ago has as much today with today as the double winning side did.

Remember the 90s!!!!

Ok, remember the 60s/70s/80s when we won stuff
 
Kinygerbils said:
I’ve given three examples.

Three chances to take the advantage of them

We didn’t.

We bottled the title

Great teams would have taken the advantage and won it.
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So we were a really good side that season. Not a great one yet. That's the point. Why is that bottling it? We just weren't that great side yet. We weren't able to take advantage due to our inexperience. Who knows what would have happened if we had Leicester's advantages during the title run in? Or if everyone was rooting for us, instead of them? We'll never know. But what I do know is that the team gave everything. To Dare Is To Do. We dared. Gave our all aiming high. But came up short. Plenty to be proud of!
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Hugo has a few more years left yet and despite my criticism of him is not a priority to replace.

Walker was replaced by Aurier , a nutter for a dumb arse yes but work in progress.

Toby was replaced by Sanchez.

Vert by Foyth but I don't think Vert will go.

Dembele by Winks , Skipp or Sissoko , take your pick.

Wanyama needs replacing sadly.

Eriksen may need replacing but is pretty unique. Alli, Winks or Lamela are not replacements but could be used instead of.
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But them players are not as good. So we have a weaker first 11 and squad now than we did a few years back.
 
Kinygerbils said:
What happened 15/20 years ago has as much today with today as the double winning side did.

Remember the 90s!!!!

Ok, remember the 60s/70s/80s when we won stuff
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I wasn't comparing us to the quality of the 90 s or earlier side/ teams/ players. I was comparing the status of the club as a whole and how much we had improved in every aspect .
I didn't mention decades ,............
I think this just highlights the difference when your only measure of success is winning silverware .
I understand stand your point of view and I also know we will never agree ,which is fine ,because my definition of success is so much different .
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
I wasn't comparing us to the quality of the 90 s or earlier side/ teams/ players. I was comparing the status of the club as a whole and how much we had improved in every aspect .
I didn't mention decades ,............
I think this just highlights the difference when your only measure of success is winning silverware .
I understand stand your point of view and I also know we will never agree ,which is fine ,because my definition of success is so much different .
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This is not a very popular idea around here, but the club transformation is mainly due to Daniel Levy.

If you look at the graph of improvement since he took over you will see how we progress from a bottom club, to mid-table, top 6 and then top 4.

Giving Poch all the credit for our success is stretching it.
 
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