PNE (H) | Page 7 | Vital Football

PNE (H)

TRUE BELIEVER said:
First things first, the tactics were abysmal and PC needs to be man enough to take responsibility for that.

I praised him for the decisions in the last two games which led to us accumulating 6 points but the decision to play five across the back at home, against a team with a record almost as poor as our own in away games was exceptionally poor.

I am not going to go into detail about the game because I think it has been covered in most of the previous posts. I had hoped that the boost in confidence that the players would have got from the last two performances would have meant that we went into the game looking for three points. Wrong. The set up was for containment and not for the expansive attacking football that two wins on the bounce would see most managers choose.

What is most concerning is that it was obvious to all and sundry that Preston had not come to throw the ball into the box but were looking to expose our weakness on the deck. Their pass and move tactics had our defence chasing shadows and the overload in midfield meant that balls played through were being chased down and won in the danger area. A simple change of formation could and should have nulled them. It was obvious from the off that Dunkley had been left in to stop the aerial threat that did not happen and should have been withdrawn, or Naismith, who incidentally had the worst game he has had since moving to CB, should have been moved forward. We were getting under one another's feet and because the aerial threat didn't materialise the three centre backs looked confused.

Why Lowe was left on is anyone's guess. He is too lightweight for this division and once he is tackled hard loses interest/confidence and will be targeted by every other manager in the division as a weak link. He came into the club and was touted as a fast paced tricky player, none of which he has shown in over half a season. The experiment is a failure and needs to be wound up.

We go again on Tuesday against a side that pushed Brentford hard and will be looking to make up for a disappointing loss. If we fail to get our tactics right again we will lose the opportunity to close the gap again.

If we decide to play a defensive game we will lose.

If we get back to the way we have played in recent weeks and stop worrying about what the opposition can do and play our own game we have a chance.

My final point is simple, "Joffy" needs to start, he is the spark that ignites our best play.
Click to expand...
Spot on and pretty much everyone could / can see the clanging errors made and simple solutions available to fix.
Everyone that is except 🤡, his coaching staff and Daz who's too busy pkaying video games to understand what's going on.
Shame on the feckin lot of em
 
Nottingham said:
Agree mostly, but I'm not sure if Joe will be up to playing every game, but he definitely deserves a start. I think PC should give the loan players a game, too.
Click to expand...

Sad to say this Notts, but I don't think Joe will be with us much longer than this season. The vultures are hovering. I for one would like to see as much as I can of this kid because I think he is a special talent. I would prefer to see him started and withdrawn later in the game if he is struggling than being used as a super sub to try and rescue a situation. The lads talent is plain to see but we haven't seen enough of it for my liking and I want to be able to say I was there at the beginning of what I believe will be a great career.

I get that the club are "protecting" him but as with parenting, you can be overprotective and damage him by doing so. I believe this lad is as good as Rooney was at this stage of his career and should be given the opportunity to show it. He appears to have the right attitude and personality to handle the pressure and he certainly has the skills, if he gets a decent run I am sure he will prosper, however if he is struggling, as Lowe is, then that is when he should be protected.

Get him started and lets see what all the fuss from the Premier League clubs is all about, hold him back and we might never get the opportunity to see him grace our pitch as he will be whipped away from under our noses.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Sad to say this Notts, but I don't think Joe will be with us much longer than this season. The vultures are hovering. I for one would like to see as much as I can of this kid because I think he is a special talent. I would prefer to see him started and withdrawn later in the game if he is struggling than being used as a super sub to try and rescue a situation. The lads talent is plain to see but we haven't seen enough of it for my liking and I want to be able to say I was there at the beginning of what I believe will be a great career.

I get that the club are "protecting" him but as with parenting, you can be overprotective and damage him by doing so. I believe this lad is as good as Rooney was at this stage of his career and should be given the opportunity to show it. He appears to have the right attitude and personality to handle the pressure and he certainly has the skills, if he gets a decent run I am sure he will prosper, however if he is struggling, as Lowe is, then that is when he should be protected.

Get him started and lets see what all the fuss from the Premier League clubs is all about, hold him back and we might never get the opportunity to see him grace our pitch as he will be whipped away from under our noses.
Click to expand...
I think it’s inevitable he’ll move on. The shocking thing is that when he’s on he pitch he’s the only one trying to make something t happen. He should be getting the ball in and around the box where he’s a serious threat. Instead he’s having to drop deep to get the ball due to how poor the rest of the team are going forward. He also needs other players to look after him in the pitch. The only players who do that are Garner and Morsy. If we still had someone like Powell I think Gelhardt would be able to pick up the ball in better areas and link up with him. Instead at times it looks like he has to do it all on his own.
 
C_Latic said:
We’ve lost that not because of the players but because of the manager. He picked a formation that was never going to work at home, leaving us with zero midfield control and full backs overloaded, we were so lucky to still be in the game at half time.

A good manager doesn’t wait until an hour. He makes the changes IMMEDIATELY. Not Paul Cook though, he waited and was punished accordingly. By the time he finally made the subs, it was too late and game lost, we were never getting two goals back. Then just to put the cherry on top of the cake, he takes off the six foot something striker who may have won a knockdown or flick on which could have let to a scrappy goal, just like he did with the first goal.

Tactically the worst manager I’ve seen at this club possibly ever. But some utter plebs on here will still defend him. You lot are as bad as him and as harmful to this club as he is.
Click to expand...
it is called proactive make things happen for your team.
not like cook reactive doing some changes to the team when it to late
 
I don`t feel i need to dig to deep into Saturday .
Fact is PC has no clue only to shout PRESSSSS .
The team lacks ability and flare and are just not quick enough on the ball
Lowe ? what can i say how does he get picked and how was he not subbed ? unbelievable ..
We are back in trouble with loads of games in Feb we could be down come March 1st ..
 
TS_Latics said:
Agreed that he should stay where he is but on the basis that he has wasted half of his career trying to convince himself he is an attacking player or left sided player (maybe in L2) when in fact he has proven to be an exceptional centre back thus far.

Did not rate him at all in any position previously and now he is probably... no 100% our best player since moving to centre back and people want to move him back?!? Are you actually mental? Leave what is working alone!
Click to expand...
Sorry I don't fully understand your reply. What I meant was to leave him at centre back.
 
mightytics said:
I don`t feel i need to dig to deep into Saturday .
Fact is PC has no clue only to shout PRESSSSS .
The team lacks ability and flare and are just not quick enough on the ball
Lowe ? what can i say how does he get picked and how was he not subbed ? unbelievable ..
We are back in trouble with loads of games in Feb we could be down come March 1st ..
Click to expand...
We’d give ourselves half a chance if Gelhardt, Garner & Pilkington where in the team. How can three of our most impressive attackers be used so sparingly?

We are trying to stay up with one hand tied behind our back!
 
Studs88 said:
We’d give ourselves half a chance if Gelhardt, Garner & Pilkington where in the team. How can three of our most impressive attackers be used so sparingly?

We are trying to stay up with one hand tied behind our back!
Click to expand...

Pilks is still not fully fit / available.
I prefer Moore to Garner OR both Moore & Garner.
Joffy should have been starting every first team game (and NOT playing for the development teams mid week) since earlier this season as he is one of the few that has the ability to create / score.
 
moonay said:
So, maybe t' North End aren't the yardstick or the shining example we should be following after all .................

https://twitter.com/x/status/1231160425011720194
Click to expand...
As we are apparently burning £1m per month that's about level pegging.
Look at the league table as a comparison. PNE have a shot, we don't - very insightful.
Given our academy progress and £10m bid for Robinson, 1 decent young English player sale per season will deliver self sustainability.
 
moonay said:
So, maybe t' North End aren't the yardstick or the shining example we should be following after all .................

https://twitter.com/x/status/1231160425011720194
Click to expand...

Preston don't have many big names so I can't see their wage bill being that excessive (13m wage bill for a 30 man squad say works out at average wage of about 8k a week which i imagine is prob lower than most at this level) and they rarely spend anything on fees eithet. So if they are losing that type on money prior to the Robinson sale to Sheffield United then I shudder to think how bad our loses will be this season after spending 8m+ more than them.
 
moonay said:
Looks like they pay more than folk thought ..

https://www.lep.co.uk/sport/footbal...-big-financial-loss-preston-north-end-1887736
Click to expand...

£13-14m player wage bill at this level though is probably one of the lower in the league. Realistically i can't see anyone other than 3 promoted sides being significantly less - i suspect even the likes of Birmingham, QPR, Hull, Millwall and are floating around that figure and our wage bill was in that ball park for League 1, so it's likely higher now. I'd be very suprised if we have a smaller wage bill than Preston when we see our latest accounts.

I don't think anyone praising Preston were under the illusion they were paying way below the market rate at this level, more that they are able to compete at the right end of the table spending significantly less than those competing for the play off spots on fees and wages. Unfortunately no club at this level can compete and stay in the black without player sales, but they keep chugging along and improving despite reinvesting a very small amount on replacements from the big fees they bring in. I think last few years they've probably brought in considerably over 20m and spent less than a quarter of that while improved their league position year on year, so the people running the club deserve a lot of credit - not many could do that.

Interesting article that will make any Latics fan feel very uncomfortable about our finances can be found here. The cost of relegation is frightening.

https://financialfootballnews.com/wigan-athletics-2018-finances/
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
£13-14m player wage bill at this level though is probably one of the lower in the league. Realistically i can't see anyone other than 3 promoted sides being significantly less - i suspect even the likes of Birmingham, QPR, Hull, Millwall and are floating around that figure and our wage bill was in that ball park for League 1, so it's likely higher now. I'd be very suprised if we have a smaller wage bill than Preston when we see our latest accounts.

I don't think anyone praising Preston were under the illusion they were paying way below the market rate at this level, more that they are able to compete at the right end of the table spending significantly less than those competing for the play off spots on fees and wages. Unfortunately no club at this level can compete and stay in the black without player sales, but they keep chugging along and improving despite reinvesting a very small amount on replacements from the big fees they bring in. I think last few years they've probably brought in considerably over 20m and spent less than a quarter of that while improved their league position year on year, so the people running the club deserve a lot of credit - not many could do that.

Interesting article that will make any Latics fan feel very uncomfortable about our finances can be found here. The cost of relegation is frightening.

https://financialfootballnews.com/wigan-athletics-2018-finances/
Click to expand...

Like Mooney says, more than what some people thought as it was a £19.7m wage bill for the that fiscal.
Also a £8m transfer fee will not offset a previous £14m trading loss as some are claiming.
 
Like Sid says KDZ, at just short of £20m, it's around half as much again as was thought.

Maybe that's why Johnson didn't come to us ........we couldn't match his wage demands.
 
moonay said:
Like Sid says KDZ, at just short of £20m, it's around half as much again as was thought.

Maybe that's why Johnson didn't come to us ........we couldn't match his wage demands.
Click to expand...

More worrying is the 43 million pound loan, as we saw with Bolton if this is recalled the club find themselves in serious problems.
 
moonay said:
Like Sid says KDZ, at just short of £20m, it's around half as much again as was thought.

Maybe that's why Johnson didn't come to us ........we couldn't match his wage demands.
Click to expand...

Looking at the sums it's 13-14m player salaries, the rest was other staffing costs - i imagine they are paying Alex Neil well after he turned down West Brom.

I dont think we ever got as far as discussing wage with Johnson, we made a loan request that was turned down according to Alex Neil.

I found this which was intersting.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/how-final-championship-table-would-16506843

Most clubs haven't generally announced their account figures for last season so this is for the 17/18 season, so it will be a distorted as many of the teams were in different leagues and circumstances will have changed as teams like Sheff Wed, Hull, QPR and Birmingham will have had to slash wages due to FFP at the time. So Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Fulham, Cardiff and Huddersfield will all be Prem wages, while us Blackburn and Charlton will be L1 wages, Luton L2 wages and Barnsley may be Championship wages from the season they got relegated.

But interesting to see a snap shot of the wages, even if it's likely to not be accurate now. It just highlights the vast difference in spending power from the relegated Prem sides and how the bigger clubs in L1 have been spending not far off some of the lower end Champ clubs.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Looking at the sums it's 13-14m player salaries, the rest was other staffing costs - i imagine they are paying Alex Neil well after he turned down West Brom.

I dont think we ever got as far as discussing wage with Johnson, we made a loan request that was turned down according to Alex Neil.

I found this which was intersting.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/how-final-championship-table-would-16506843

Most clubs haven't generally announced their account figures for last season so this is for the 17/18 season, so it will be a distorted as many of the teams were in different leagues and circumstances will have changed as teams like Sheff Wed, Hull, QPR and Birmingham will have had to slash wages due to FFP at the time. So Stoke, West Brom, Swansea, Fulham, Cardiff and Huddersfield will all be Prem wages, while us Blackburn and Charlton will be L1 wages, Luton L2 wages and Barnsley may be Championship wages from the season they got relegated.

But interesting to see a snap shot of the wages, even if it's likely to not be accurate now. It just highlights the vast difference in spending power from the relegated Prem sides and how the bigger clubs in L1 have been spending not far off some of the lower end Champ clubs.
Click to expand...

Even though the figures are out dated it is staggering the difference in wage bills.

Also interesting to see that we are only just above the teams that came up last year, given that people were saying that we bought the title in L1 the figures don't really show that, with both Charlton and Barnsley having comparable figures to ours. Obviously you are right about Luton, those must be the figures for L2.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Looking at the sums it's 13-14m player salaries, the rest was other staffing costs - i imagine they are paying Alex Neil well after he turned down West Brom..........
Click to expand...

I agree that Neil may be on a decent wage, but who else do you think would make up a £6m difference if players are only £13-14m as you say?

The report said ...."The wage bill was £19.7m - including players and all staff - a rise of almost £4.7m on the last financial year. " ........ they must pay their stewards a hell of a lot !

I think it's fair to say that Neil aside, the vast majority of that is going to the players.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.