Playing academy grads 'Virtually impossible'..

[Spursex]

Playing West Ham academy graduates ‘now virtually impossible’, says club chief David Gold

George Elek
Thursday 29 June 2017 15:59 BST

Moving away: Reece Oxford has joined Bundesliga team Borussia Monchengladbach on loan West Ham United via Getty Images

West Ham chairman David Gold has spoken of the “changing landscape” in football that means it is now difficult for young players to break into Premier League first teams.

Hammers fans are generally proud of their academy and its history, and have not reacted well to Gold’s claims that they should not expect home-grown players to get a chance in competitive games.

Reece Oxford is the most recent player to come through the ranks at the east London club, but this month he has been loaned out to Bundesliga team Borussia Monchengladbach to gain experience.


"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.” Gold told
Why Oxford's West Ham exit leaves 'The Academy of Football' in limbo

“There is nothing more pleasurable, for a fan, owner or manager, to have a young academy player breaking through. However, I think we’ve got to be realistic and say that is now virtually impossible.

"I think we had one or two that broke in this season. I think we had Rashford and that was really a freak situation. That wouldn’t have happened under normal circumstances and I think there was an injury during the warm-up and he got his chance.

"It’s just not going to happen on a regular basis. It’s different now. We have to face the fact that 17, 18 and 19-year-old young men are not going to get into the Premier League first-team. That would be very, very rare.”

He confirmed that the funding for West Ham's academy would not be stopped, but conceded that there were concerns as to its productivity.


"From a financial point of view we’d like them to come through earlier, but we’ve got to face up to the fact, the academy is in place and that’s not going to change, what will change is that instead of teenagers breaking into the first team, they are going to have to go out on loan.

“That’s what is happening and there is a big drive for players to go out on loan and they may do that for three of four years."

 

[Bald Archie]

"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.”

Well he is right that the dynamics would have changed to have that many internationals on the pitch in a cup final, as only 22 players are allowed.

 

[Departed]

Bald Archie - 29/6/2017 21:30

"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.”

Well he is right that the dynamics would have changed to have that many internationals on the pitch in a cup final, as only 22 players are allowed.

He was watching rugby and couldn't tell the difference between that and Spam playing football.

 

[Spursex]

80deg16minW - 29/6/2017 21:40

Bald Archie - 29/6/2017 21:30

"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.”

Well he is right that the dynamics would have changed to have that many internationals on the pitch in a cup final, as only 22 players are allowed.

He was watching rugby and couldn't tell the difference between that and Spam playing football.

Baldie or Gold?

It proves, yet again, just how difficult it is to produce PL playing kids now...

 

[freundorfoe]

Bald Archie - 29/6/2017 21:30

"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.”

Well he is right that the dynamics would have changed to have that many internationals on the pitch in a cup final, as only 22 players are allowed.

Maybe he meant 3 subs each team + that new weird rule about a 4th sub in extra time bring it to a total of 30 internationals.

Or alternatively he can't count. Imagine being a West Ham academy player and hearing the club's owner said it's impossible for you to break through. Might be crushing for some of the lads, you at least want a slim window of opportunity - some of them probably looked at Oxford as evidence there was a route if they worked hard.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Isn't it exceptional for an academy player at any PL club to go straight into the first team ? Most go out on loan first. Winks is an exception and an indication of how well thought of he is. Marcus Edwards could be another although as mentioned on here he probably needs a loan first.

 

[Departed]

Sheeezz Nick. How long is it going to take for it to sink in that a Spurs player out on loan is a player who is being sold or at the very least, not in anyone's plans?

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Like Kane and Danny Rose you mean ?

 

[Departed]

Nick Real Deal - 12/7/2017 18:24

Like Kane and Danny Rose you mean ?

This is the Pochettino era. He has stated very clearly that he wants all future Tottenham players kept in house.

 

[Bald Archie]

80deg16minW - 12/7/2017 18:29

Nick Real Deal - 12/7/2017 18:24

Like Kane and Danny Rose you mean ?

This is the Pochettino era. He has stated very clearly that he wants all future Tottenham players kept in house.

Correct, as it would be too dangerous for player he wanted to be exposed to another manager and coach with brains.

 

[Bald Archie]

freundorfoe - 12/7/2017 01:31

Bald Archie - 29/6/2017 21:30

"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.”

Well he is right that the dynamics would have changed to have that many internationals on the pitch in a cup final, as only 22 players are allowed.

Maybe he meant 3 subs each team + that new weird rule about a 4th sub in extra time bring it to a total of 30 internationals.

Or alternatively he can't count. Imagine being a West Ham academy player and hearing the club's owner said it's impossible for you to break through. Might be crushing for some of the lads, you at least want a slim window of opportunity - some of them probably looked at Oxford as evidence there was a route if they worked hard.

You have to wonder what his motivation is in saying that, presumably as a reason why they don;t have much of an Academy facility maybe?

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Bald Archie - 12/7/2017 21:04

freundorfoe - 12/7/2017 01:31

Bald Archie - 29/6/2017 21:30

"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.”

Well he is right that the dynamics would have changed to have that many internationals on the pitch in a cup final, as only 22 players are allowed.

Maybe he meant 3 subs each team + that new weird rule about a 4th sub in extra time bring it to a total of 30 internationals.

Or alternatively he can't count. Imagine being a West Ham academy player and hearing the club's owner said it's impossible for you to break through. Might be crushing for some of the lads, you at least want a slim window of opportunity - some of them probably looked at Oxford as evidence there was a route if they worked hard.

You have to wonder what his motivation is in saying that, presumably as a reason why they don;t have much of an Academy facility maybe?

It's a bit of a Ratner comment. Our academy is crap . Seriously not very encouraging for the kids is it ?

 

[Spursex]

Nick Real Deal - 12/7/2017 21:56

Bald Archie - 12/7/2017 21:04

freundorfoe - 12/7/2017 01:31

Bald Archie - 29/6/2017 21:30

"Today, if we’re having a cup final, there probably would be 30 internationals on the pitch, so there is a big difference and a changing landscape that’s changed the whole dynamics.”

Well he is right that the dynamics would have changed to have that many internationals on the pitch in a cup final, as only 22 players are allowed.

Maybe he meant 3 subs each team + that new weird rule about a 4th sub in extra time bring it to a total of 30 internationals.

Or alternatively he can't count. Imagine being a West Ham academy player and hearing the club's owner said it's impossible for you to break through. Might be crushing for some of the lads, you at least want a slim window of opportunity - some of them probably looked at Oxford as evidence there was a route if they worked hard.

You have to wonder what his motivation is in saying that, presumably as a reason why they don;t have much of an Academy facility maybe?

It's a bit of a Ratner comment. Our academy is crap . Seriously not very encouraging for the kids is it ?

It's a moment of rare honesty from him; he was commenting on how vast sums of money means that most PL clubs can't or won't risk playing kids to gain their experience when the sums involved are so great - so it's easier to send them out on loan - even abroad to top leagues such as the Bundesliga (as they are now doing) and see if they can make the grade...

 

[Nick Real Deal]

KWP could be our next to come straight through with no loans. Possibly Edwards, before them was Winks so unlike the spam academy we seem to have success at the moment.

 

[Spursex]

Nick Real Deal - 14/7/2017 13:10

KWP could be our next to come straight through with no loans. Possibly Edwards, before them was Winks so unlike the spam academy we seem to have success at the moment.

Is a tightrope though for coaches - Onomah is one that's picked up lots of flack here for not impressing in his cameo's last season - few seem to grasp that kids need playing time to bring consistency and confidence to their game - I would have preferred that he'd gone out on loan last season with a view to integrating him and trusting him if he'd had a good season...

I still believe that after watching him ome through the ranks for the last 5 years that Onomah is ultimately the player that has it all but needs a run of competitive football for the confidence to show everyone just how good he can be - Winks, who I really do think could be one of the greatest Spurs created midfielders we've ever had is an absolute rarity - he got one chance and took it and never looked back...

If you're a PL coach and you've got as much money to spend as they all have now - you'd buy in ready-made than take the risks that you do with kids or unfinished articles.

 

[Real Deal]

We played Onomah in the wrong position last season. He is better more central and slightly deeper. Playing him in the wide AM positions doesn't suit his game.

 

[Bald Archie]

As I have said I watch the U21's a reasonable amount and Onomah looked pretty handy but didn't stand out head and shoulders to the extent where I thought he was ready for the first-team squad.

It is far from unheard of for an 18/19 to break into the first-team squad and show they can cut it though - equally lots don't - and Winks is just the latest to prove that. The more highly rated (at the time) Carroll and Pritchard are example of players talked up as being absolute nailed on future stars, but who showed us they couldn't cut it in the first-team at that age or in fact 5 years on.

Onomah must show Porky something I haven't see in training. I am not yet ready to write him off yet but, as you say RD, when given opportunities he was played out of position and I don't think that is as helpful to development as gaining experience in your position.

It is one of the many things which baffle me regarding Porky.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Poch is judged by results. He can't play Josh instead of Dembele or Winks. He tried to get him on the pitch to see how he responded.