Player Scores v WBA

[Calvin Plummer]

Can't see how Muric gets a score. How could he have done worse than he did, short of throwing it deliberately into his own net? Not our youngster, so his mistakes aren't worth it.

Laughable bias that CP gives Robinson less than Cash, when Cash was absolutely hapless (through no fault of his own)

Because he was beaten more times, allowed more crosses to come in, more shots to come in, a goal came from his man and he offered fuck all going forward. Cash on the other hand was probably our biggest threat over the 90 but you know don't let facts get in the way of a Pope rant, you rarely do.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Because he was beaten more times, allowed more crosses to come in, more shots to come in, a goal came from his man and he offered fuck all going forward. Cash on the other hand was probably our biggest threat over the 90 but you know don't let facts get in the way of a Pope rant, you rarely do.

I'm not ranting so stop making it personal.

Cash showed exactly why he is an attacking midfielder.

Just as with Osborn, you seem to be happy if a fullback can attack but not defend. That isn't good enough.

Cash was caught for their first goal and he was caught out every time they attacked him. Just watch him, he hasn't a clue where to be. West Brom could do whatever they wanted with him. Often they didn't even bother crossing it. Why take that risk when you can get right by Cash straight into the penalty area and the edge of the 6 yard box?

It's difficult to couch these discussions in language that isn't critical of Cash because I don't want to be. He isn't a defender, never has been and should not be put in this position.

Robinson can defend. He is a very typical SBC fullback. As such, he will stop some of the crosses and fail on others. He might be good enough in a Sheffield United situation where all 11 players are playing above themselves and he has real quality around him.

Cash would only be a good RB in a side that is so good it rarely faces a defensive threat.

Cash needs to go into attacking midfield as our long term replacement for Lolley

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I'm not ranting so stop making it personal.

Cash showed exactly why he is an attacking midfielder.

Just as with Osborn, you seem to be happy if a fullback can attack but not defend. That isn't good enough.

Cash was caught for their first goal and he was caught out every time they attacked him. Just watch him, he hasn't a clue where to be. West Brom could do whatever they wanted with him. Often they didn't even bother crossing it. Why take that risk when you can get right by Cash straight into the penalty area and the edge of the 6 yard box?

It's difficult to couch these discussions in language that isn't critical of Cash because I don't want to be. He isn't a defender, never has been and should not be put in this position.

Robinson can defend. He is a very typical SBC fullback. As such, he will stop some of the crosses and fail on others. He might be good enough in a Sheffield United situation where all 11 players are playing above themselves and he has real quality around him.

Cash would only be a good RB in a side that is so good it rarely faces a defensive threat.

Cash needs to go into attacking midfield as our long term replacement for Lolley

You were the one who mentioned me rather than just giving your opinion.

You were the one who compared the two.

Which allowed his opposite number to score?

Which allowed his opponent to put in more crosses?

To put in more shots?

Which was better going forward?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

You were the one who mentioned me rather than just giving your opinion.

You were the one who compared the two.

Which allowed his opposite number to score?

Which allowed his opponent to put in more crosses?

To put in more shots?

Which was better going forward?

I mentioned you because you started the thread. No need to see that as a threat.

Cash allowed his man to score, not Robinson. Please tell me you are not blaming Robinson for Phillip's goal.

I don't know what statistics you are looking at but everyone at that game, including the attendant media, saw Cash get absolutely destroyed.

You alone seem to have think he could defend. That is no surprise given that you watched Osborn get pulled to pieces at left back all last season and believed him to be the new Roberto Carlos

 

[Seb ho]

I mentioned you because you started the thread. No need to see that as a threat.

Cash allowed his man to score, not Robinson. Please tell me you are not blaming Robinson for Phillip's goal.

I don't know what statistics you are looking at but everyone at that game, including the attendant media, saw Cash get absolutely destroyed.

You alone seem to have think he could defend. That is no surprise given that you watched Osborn get pulled to pieces at left back all last season and believed him to be the new Roberto Carlos

????? now
Now boys

 

[Seb ho]

????? now
Now boys

Cash is shite tho not a RB and tbh not sure what he is other than shite

 

[Hardy Forest]

I thought Cash did really well getting forward, particularly when working with Adomah. Defensively, I’m afraid he was a horror show.
I also thought Robinson was poor in all honesty as well though.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I mentioned you because you started the thread. No need to see that as a threat.

Cash allowed his man to score, not Robinson. Please tell me you are not blaming Robinson for Phillip's goal.

I don't know what statistics you are looking at but everyone at that game, including the attendant media, saw Cash get absolutely destroyed.

You alone seem to have think he could defend. That is no surprise given that you watched Osborn get pulled to pieces at left back all last season and believed him to be the new Roberto Carlos

So you ducked every single question lol same as usual. Can't deal with facts so change the subject. Robinson allowed his man to put the ball in, just as he allowed his man to put in far more shots and crosses. But he's got a long throw so yay, that was useful.

And yes attacking is key to a modern fullback and my God we need width from our fullbacks. Can you remember where our goal came from?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

So you ducked every single question lol same as usual. Can't deal with facts so change the subject. Robinson allowed his man to put the ball in, just as he allowed his man to put in far more shots and crosses. But he's got a long throw so yay, that was useful.

And yes attacking is key to a modern fullback and my God we need width from our fullbacks. Can you remember where our goal came from?

I answered every question and always do. What question did I duck?

And you are seriously blaming Robinson for a 30 yard shot from the touchline?

Bit like when you blamed Guedioura for a goal that he was no where near. Bizarre, but if that's how you want to think, fine.

I agree that attacking is important to a fullback. But defending comes first. The better the fullback, the greater their ability to do both.

 

[Lienking]

Interesting to know who watched the game on tv and who was there. For individual moments like the goals you probably get a better view on tv, especially with several replays. I don't really see how tv viewers get a decent view of the effort some of the players put in though. Grabban seemed to work quite hard, did some useful work, but does need someone else to create chances for him. SL needs to learn that Lolley frequently looks done in during games, before he decides to sub him though ! SL did do the right thing this time though as Adomah's crossing was superb, though I fail to see what Ameobi brings to the game.

 

[uk1best]

No need to get personal mate, it’s my opinion. Clearly you were one of the fans blinded by the two good runs second half, into forgetting that he barely touched the ball first half and the West Brom midfield ran past him at their leisure.

Not getting personal at all and blinded by anything other than what i saw which was not Semdo a 3 and Muric a 4 ffs i mean you score Muric a 4? Like i said already you know nothing about football with those scores m8 sorry not personal..

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I answered every question and always do. What question did I duck?

And you are seriously blaming Robinson for a 30 yard shot from the touchline?

Bit like when you blamed Guedioura for a goal that he was no where near. Bizarre, but if that's how you want to think, fine.

I agree that attacking is important to a fullback. But defending comes first. The better the fullback, the greater their ability to do both.

So you agree Robinson offered less going forward and allowed far more crosses and shots than Cash but you still want to single him out? Ok lol same old Pope, change the subject when he can't win the debate.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

So you agree Robinson offered less going forward and allowed far more crosses and shots than Cash but you still want to single him out? Ok lol same old Pope, change the subject when he can't win the debate.

Of course Robinson offered less going forward. Cash is an attacking player!

I don't know if he let more crosses through. I said in my previous post that I haven't seen any stats on that. You keep saying Robinson let more go, but you have not given any evidence of that yet. By all means, show me what you have and I can respond accordingly.

What I will say though is that it was clear to me that their winger was getting past Cash constantly. A winger doesn't need to cross if he can get past his man and cut right into the box, and that was happening frequently.

Fine, you don't like Robinson. I think he is ok but probably not promotion material. .
I also don't agree with your complete kamikaze approach to fullbacks, where you don't care if they can defend so long as they attack like out and out wingers. That might be lovely for the likes of Liverpool, but in the SBC I tend to think defending is the first job of a defender, attacking the second. Doesn't mean you have to get arsey

 

[Ingy]

Our squad is possibly better suited for 352 ....although it would mean acquiring another striker.

 

[Seb ho]

Let’s just stop all the arguing .....

One thing we can all agree on surely

More chance of getting a BJ of the pope than getting promoted

Terrible squad

Manager WILL be sacked

We won’t go down

We will still have a bloated squad full of shite and a new manager trying to do something with it

Rinse repeat

No point arguing it’s how it is

Once is unlucky
Twice very unlucky

20 years in row ..... nowt gonna change just chill ??

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Of course Robinson offered less going forward. Cash is an attacking player!

I don't know if he let more crosses through. I said in my previous post that I haven't seen any stats on that. You keep saying Robinson let more go, but you have not given any evidence of that yet. By all means, show me what you have and I can respond accordingly.

What I will say though is that it was clear to me that their winger was getting past Cash constantly. A winger doesn't need to cross if he can get past his man and cut right into the box, and that was happening frequently.

Fine, you don't like Robinson. I think he is ok but probably not promotion material. .
I also don't agree with your complete kamikaze approach to fullbacks, where you don't care if they can defend so long as they attack like out and out wingers. That might be lovely for the likes of Liverpool, but in the SBC I tend to think defending is the first job of a defender, attacking the second. Doesn't mean you have to get arsey

He got past him twice, the lad against him had two successful dribbles the entire match. Robinson didn't just allow more crosses but more shots also by his opponent. You have WhoScored, if you don't believe me then check...

So Cash had a higher score because he allowed less danger down his flank while still creating far more for us. Not complicated.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

He got past him twice, the lad against him had two successful dribbles the entire match. Robinson didn't just allow more crosses but more shots also by his opponent. You have WhoScored, if you don't believe me then check...

So Cash had a higher score because he allowed less danger down his flank while still creating far more for us. Not complicated.

A study in how to remove all context from stats to render them useless.

So whoscored tells you:

A) how many different players attacked Cash? Because you are utterly pointlessly looking at only one player Vs Cash, ignoring that there is also a fullback attacking him, plus potentially other players

B) how many attacks are screwed up by their players as opposed to successfully defended by Cash?

Does whoscored tell you that on most defensive statistics, Robinson did more? Actually, yes it does;


Robinson did more interceptions as well.

To be honest, I'm not sure why I even bothering to debate whether a specialist left back put in a better defensive performance than an attacking midfielder based on phoney, context shorn stats based on one opposition player.

You are just trying to provoke an argument so you can have a tantrum and blame it on me. I don't want any part of it. I saw the game, we all saw the game and we all saw that we need a RB

 

[paz1967]

Ive always seen cashy, from a youth, to be a box to box midfielder. Not great but competent, instinctive and competetive and Id still likely have him in the middle above 90% of the current squad.

If he IS to be used as a wide man, then it has to be as a wing back in a 352. (Id play 2 up front whatever formation) but then he'd need someone who really worked that side with him properly. Can't see players like Adomah having the legs.

 

[paz1967]

Here we go again, touch of ring rust perhaps, new manager and players, same problem - we just are not creative enough and our ball retention is mediocre. First half was promising but once we went behind we never really looked like getting back into it.


Muric: 3, he's young and can hopefully put this behind him but about the worst debut possible.

Cash; 7, our most dangerous player even leaving aside the goal. Really needs to work on his passing but offered drive and an ability to go past a player that was missing elsewhere. Defensively decent also.

Robinson: 5.5, defensively solid as usual, offered little going forward as usual. In my opinion at least a huge downgrade on Osborn who could have made a difference tonight.

Dawson: 6, tried to show some leadership but too often ended up pumping aimless balls forward rather than the raking passes he can produce.

Worrall: 6.5, slightly better on the ball and in the air than Dawson, promising if not the finished article yet.

Watson: 7, did reasonably well to be fair, won the ball and didn't lose it.

Lolley: 6, rarely got the chance to attack from a strong position. Teams will watch him and it's up to others to take advantage or create space for him.

Adomah: 6.5, good work for Cash but was never a consistent threat. Couple of little dribbles but the jury is out on how much he has left.

Semedo: 7, the most energetic of our midfield. Showed ambition (if not always quality) and drove us forward.

Silva: 6, I was looking forward to seeing him play and he looks technically decent but was unable to have any real influence over the game. Will be interesting to see how he pairs with Carvalho.

Grabban: 6, put a shift in but feeding off scraps.


Subs: Mir (6) looked promising, as did Johnson (6) briefly, Ameobi (3) not so much - awful passing especially.


Lamouchi: 5, early days but he set us up a little like an away team. Men behind the ball, concede space and possession and try to hurt WBA on the break. Rarely looked like working but obviously not helped by a clanger or two.

Too funny. If that team averages over 6 for that perfomance lets hope we never have a 5, 4,3, 2, 1 or perhaps even a 7 and 8

 

[Hardy Forest]

Not getting personal at all and blinded by anything other than what i saw which was not Semdo a 3 and Muric a 4 ffs i mean you score Muric a 4? Like i said already you know nothing about football with those scores m8 sorry not personal..

So claiming I know nothing about football isn’t getting personal? Right.
The reason Muric got a four, was an excellent save second half, and the fact he wasn’t really involved that much after his initial mistakes.
Semedo played all but 10minutes of the match and in the most important area, midfield, and was crap throughout.