Player scores v Swansea

[pebble]

Yes, curse me for hiding behind facts. What a cheap thing to do.

No no, you're quite right a midtable team in disarray off the pitch should be having 70% possession away from home while we create ooodles of chances with hoofball.

Stats not facts, rather different. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I've repeatedly asked you whether your own eyes confirm the stats you quote but you never reply. What your reference to disarray off the pitch has to do with Swansea's performance today only you can know.

I saw a very good Swansea performance (from a team who were in the prem quite recently, I believe). Talk them down all you want to justify your argument, doesn't worry me. We beat them.

 

[Mappred]

As far as I'm concerned the players are being forced to play a fucking awful system with fucking awful tactics. To blame them overly would be wrong.

I won’t disagree at all with that. But when it flashed up on the screen that Murphy was man of the match after being on the pitch for ten minutes, it pretty much told you how shit everyone else was.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Stats not facts, rather different. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I've repeatedly asked you whether your own eyes confirm the stats you quote but you never reply. What your reference to disarray off the pitch has to do with Swansea's performance today only you can know.

I saw a very good Swansea performance (from a team who were in the prem quite recently, I believe). Talk them down all you want to justify your argument, doesn't worry me. We beat them.

Yes yes, stats are irrelevant. Evidence is irrelevant. All that counts are our own biases and prejudices.

Notice everyone agreeing with me and not you? Notice everyone upset, disgusted, disappointed, flat etc. apart from you?

It's not complicated - we created nothing because we had very little of the ball. We created nothing because of our tactics of hoofing the ball. We created nothing because we left creative players on the bench. We created nothing because we played 3 defensive midfielders at home to a struggling side. We created nothing because we weren't set up to create, we were set up to stifle the opposition and play safety first direct football.

I've no idea what the fuck you see if you don't see that. Oh no wait, I forgot. Apparently tactics and formations and players don't affect the opposition.

 

[Ingy]

I wonder how Swansea fans feel playing well but losing regularly? Chicken and egg chaps.

 

[AdebolaCornflakes]

I wonder how Swansea fans feel playing well but losing regularly? Chicken and egg chaps.

Interestingly I saw a lot of comments from their fans on Twitter who are fed up with the nice passing football because they aren't finishing chances and aren't winning many games playing that way.

I'm not advocating our performance yesterday because it was truly dreadful, but there is a balance to be found between possession football and mixing it.

 

[Lienking]

Surely Pants was the MOM ? Would have given him an 8 or even 9. Made some brilliant saves that a shorter gk might not even have reached. Why does everyone think he is Pants?

 

[Basha73]

Interestingly I saw a lot of comments from their fans on Twitter who are fed up with the nice passing football because they aren't finishing chances and aren't winning many games playing that way.

I'm not advocating our performance yesterday because it was truly dreadful, but there is a balance to be found between possession football and mixing it.

Don’t think anyone would argue with that AC.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Yes yes, stats are irrelevant. Evidence is irrelevant. All that counts are our own biases and prejudices.

Notice everyone agreeing with me and not you? Notice everyone upset, disgusted, disappointed, flat etc. apart from you?

It's not complicated - we created nothing because we had very little of the ball. We created nothing because of our tactics of hoofing the ball. We created nothing because we left creative players on the bench. We created nothing because we played 3 defensive midfielders at home to a struggling side. We created nothing because we weren't set up to create, we were set up to stifle the opposition and play safety first direct football.

I've no idea what the fuck you see if you don't see that. Oh no wait, I forgot. Apparently tactics and formations and players don't affect the opposition.

A lot of rubbish here, but just a couple of things to pick you up on while you bully this older member.

Firstly, everyone does not agree with you. It is staggering arrogance and hubris to suggest they do. I fundamentally disagree with the majority of what you are saying. I see absolutely nothing in the ground (I wasn't there yesterday admittedly so perhaps I missed some protests) amidst 8 consecutive sellouts to suggest the good people of Nottingham (of whom you of course are not a member) agree with you either.

Secondly, we are not playing three defensive midfielder at all. Paul Taylor addressed this just yesterday. Only one ever has a remit to "hold". If Watson plays, it's him and Colback and Yates are meant to get up and down the pitch. I know we all like to think we are experts, but I do give some credence to what is said by a bloke who actually speaks to the manager. I don't know whether they actually got up and down as intended yesterday but that is the idea. I have certainly seen plenty of Yates getting forward and coming close to scoring and Colback also has a couple of goals so if their remit is to sit back and spoil then they are disobeying orders and it's surprising to still see them in the side.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Interestingly I saw a lot of comments from their fans on Twitter who are fed up with the nice passing football because they aren't finishing chances and aren't winning many games playing that way.

I'm not advocating our performance yesterday because it was truly dreadful, but there is a balance to be found between possession football and mixing it.

Precisely and pebble is simply adding balance to the argument.

Fwiw I think both have a point but we should probably assess these against the overall context of the season. At this stage it is all about pts. I doubt mon wants a season of that next year and said it himself after the game. Criticism of style at this stage in a season is a bit churlish imo

Would I take the pain of watching 6 more games lime that? Every time if it gets us in the play offs

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I wonder how Swansea fans feel playing well but losing regularly? Chicken and egg chaps.

Frustrated. They more or less brushed us off as a Pullis type side and then bemoaned their own inadequacies.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

A lot of rubbish here, but just a couple of things to pick you up on while you bully this older member.

Firstly, everyone does not agree with you. It is staggering arrogance and hubris to suggest they do. I fundamentally disagree with the majority of what you are saying. I see absolutely nothing in the ground (I wasn't there yesterday admittedly so perhaps I missed some protests) amidst 8 consecutive sellouts to suggest the good people of Nottingham (of whom you of course are not a member) agree with you either.

Secondly, we are not playing three defensive midfielder at all. Paul Taylor addressed this just yesterday. Only one ever has a remit to "hold". If Watson plays, it's him and Colback and Yates are meant to get up and down the pitch. I know we all like to think we are experts, but I do give some credence to what is said by a bloke who actually speaks to the manager. I don't know whether they actually got up and down as intended yesterday but that is the idea. I have certainly seen plenty of Yates getting forward and coming close to scoring and Colback also has a couple of goals so if their remit is to sit back and spoil then they are disobeying orders and it's surprising to still see them in the side.

I'll definitely listen to your analysis as you weren't there.

Yes we are playing 3 defensively minded defensive midfielders, though Yates is pushed slightly ahead of the two.

AK was hardly a doyen of aggressive passing football but surely even you can see the difference in style?

Cute bullying reference again, did it really upset you so much when you were caught?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I'll definitely listen to your analysis as you weren't there.

Yes we are playing 3 defensively minded defensive midfielders, though Yates is pushed slightly ahead of the two.

AK was hardly a doyen of aggressive passing football but surely even you can see the difference in style?

Cute bullying reference again, did it really upset you so much when you were caught?

I haven't made a single comment about the game yesterday as I didn't even get to listen to it, so try again. I did however catch Martin O'Neill's interview afterwards which was seriously misrepresented by one of your fanclub.

Feel free to have a look at Taylor's tweet. He actually speaks to the manager about what the tactics are. You just pontificate as if you know better.

Yes, I can see a difference in style. I can see us winning most of our home games. I can see passing spells that are as good as anything under the previous managers, but also an impatience to get the ball forward and do soemthing with it. Some is good, some is not good.

Wigan at home and Bristol at home is where I draw the line. Brentford, Hull were much better. If you want to know where my line of acceptability is, it's there. Play like we did against Wigan and I won't be happy. Other games have been the right side of that line.

I have no tolerance for pointless tippy tappy like Swansea. Pass around the defence for minutes on end, the front four totally isolated and doing nothing. It eventually gets to them and comes straight back again, cue more passing around defence waiting for the opposition to make an opening we can't fashion for ourselves. No thank you, sick of that shite

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I haven't made a single comment about the game yesterday as I didn't even get to listen to it, so try again. I did however catch Martin O'Neill's interview afterwards which was seriously misrepresented by one of your fanclub.

Feel free to have a look at Taylor's tweet. He actually speaks to the manager about what the tactics are. You just pontificate as if you know better.

Yes, I can see a difference in style. I can see us winning most of our home games. I can see passing spells that are as good as anything under the previous managers, but also an impatience to get the ball forward and do soemthing with it. Some is good, some is not good.

Wigan at home and Bristol at home is where I draw the line. Brentford, Hull were much better. If you want to know where my line of acceptability is, it's there. Play like we did against Wigan and I won't be happy. Other games have been the right side of that line.

I have no tolerance for pointless tippy tappy like Swansea. Pass around the defence for minutes on end, the front four totally isolated and doing nothing. It eventually gets to them and comes straight back again, cue more passing around defence waiting for the opposition to make an opening we can't fashion for ourselves. No thank you, sick of that shite

Do you have a tolerance for 70 minutes of 0 chances created, 30% possession at home which was largely just hoofed? I get you don't like attacking passing football (I don't think anyone but you has mentioned possession for possession's sake) but isn't there a balance to be had between Pullisball and MW for instance?

Yesterday was the worst football I've seen since Megson. I wish it wasn't so, for 20 minutes we struck a balance against Hull and I hoped we'd found a happy medium. Sadly not, we've reverted back to type.

Taylor may have spoken to the manager but like it or not we selected 3 defensively minded central midfielders and left creative technical players on the bench and then wonder why we create so little. Yes we pushed Yates a touch further forward but that doesn't change the type of player he is. Sarri pushes Kante further forward but does that stop him from being primarily a defensive midfielder by attribute?

I guess as long as we keep hoofing it over the midfield perhaps it's irrelevant who we pick.

Acolytes eh :) ever wonder why you don't have any?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Do you have a tolerance for 70 minutes of 0 chances created, 30% possession at home which was largely just hoofed? I get you don't like attacking passing football (I don't think anyone but you has mentioned possession for possession's sake) but isn't there a balance to be had between Pullisball and MW for instance?

Yesterday was the worst football I've seen since Megson. I wish it wasn't so, for 20 minutes we struck a balance against Hull and I hoped we'd found a happy medium. Sadly not, we've reverted back to type.

Taylor may have spoken to the manager but like it or not we selected 3 defensively minded central midfielders and left creative technical players on the bench and then wonder why we create so little. Yes we pushed Yates a touch further forward but that doesn't change the type of player he is. Sarri pushes Kante further forward but does that stop him from being primarily a defensive midfielder by attribute?

I guess as long as we keep hoofing it over the midfield perhaps it's irrelevant who we pick.

Acolytes eh :) ever wonder why you don't have any?

Would you have classed Roy Keane as a defensive midfielder?

Frank Lampard?

This is what O'Neill is wanting to do with Colback and Yates.

There is no point trying to engage me with the style of play yesterday; I was taking my little boy to Thomas Land in Tamworth. Were you to tempt me to make any comment you would leap upon it instantly because I wasn't there.

I'm making comments about games I have seen, and from the recent ones I think you and others are being a bunch of big girls blouses.

Karanka should never have gone.

But we are winning games. We are dealing with problems that have been there for years (like set pieces)

The problem is, as soon as a ball leaves the ground you have a problem with it. You were accusing Karanka of making us a long ball team this time last year, but changed your tune when you couldn't find any followers on that.

Funny, you never seemed to have a problem with those dreadful long diagonal balls under Stuart Pearce, a style of football so dreadful no one could even identify a style within it.

Once again, your 'automatic' support for a forest manager is extremely selective and has as much value as a Brexit promise

 

[Basha73]

Would you have classed Roy Keane as a defensive midfielder?

Frank Lampard?

This is what O'Neill is wanting to do with Colback and Yates.

There is no point trying to engage me with the style of play yesterday; I was taking my little boy to Thomas Land in Tamworth. Were you to tempt me to make any comment you would leap upon it instantly because I wasn't there.

I'm making comments about games I have seen, and from the recent ones I think you and others are being a bunch of big girls blouses.

Karanka should never have gone.

But we are winning games. We are dealing with problems that have been there for years (like set pieces)

The problem is, as soon as a ball leaves the ground you have a problem with it. You were accusing Karanka of making us a long ball team this time last year, but changed your tune when you couldn't find any followers on that.

Funny, you never seemed to have a problem with those dreadful long diagonal balls under Stuart Pearce, a style of football so dreadful no one could even identify a style within it.

Once again, your 'automatic' support for a forest manager is extremely selective and has as much value as a Brexit promise

Roy Keane started as an attacking midfielder who could get stuck in. He moved back as his career moved on but always had the ability to go forwards.

Frank Lampard? What the flaming hell are you on?

And comparing either of them to yesterdays trio is frankly ludicrous and dovetails nicely with your big girls blouse comment which makes you come across as a pompous arse.

If you like the football you are being served up then good for you. Plenty of others don’t and are entitled to say so much like you did under Warburton or had you conveniently forgotten that?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Would you have classed Roy Keane as a defensive midfielder?

Frank Lampard?

This is what O'Neill is wanting to do with Colback and Yates.

There is no point trying to engage me with the style of play yesterday; I was taking my little boy to Thomas Land in Tamworth. Were you to tempt me to make any comment you would leap upon it instantly because I wasn't there.

I'm making comments about games I have seen, and from the recent ones I think you and others are being a bunch of big girls blouses.

Karanka should never have gone.

But we are winning games. We are dealing with problems that have been there for years (like set pieces)

The problem is, as soon as a ball leaves the ground you have a problem with it. You were accusing Karanka of making us a long ball team this time last year, but changed your tune when you couldn't find any followers on that.

Funny, you never seemed to have a problem with those dreadful long diagonal balls under Stuart Pearce, a style of football so dreadful no one could even identify a style within it.

Once again, your 'automatic' support for a forest manager is extremely selective and has as much value as a Brexit promise

If MON wants to turn Colback and Yates into Frank Lampard then it might be time for an assisted care facility...

Roy Keane is the most complete central midfielder I've ever seen. During his career he played a variety of roles, at us he was primarily given licence to make devastating late runs, at United he primarily patrolled the 20/30 yards ahead of the back 4. So for the majority of his career he played in a defensive role but he had more talent in his little toe than our current squad combined.

I've only ever wanted one manager out before 12+ months and that's sadly MON. The same can not be said of you...Maybe best you stick to walking out on Derby games as a sign of what a true supporter you are.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Roy Keane started as an attacking midfielder who could get stuck in. He moved back as his career moved on but always had the ability to go forwards.

Frank Lampard? What the flaming hell are you on?

And comparing either of them to yesterdays trio is frankly ludicrous and dovetails nicely with your big girls blouse comment which makes you come across as a pompous arse.

If you like the football you are being served up then good for you. Plenty of others don’t and are entitled to say so much like you did under Warburton or had you conveniently forgotten that?

Haven't you worked Pope out yet?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Roy Keane started as an attacking midfielder who could get stuck in. He moved back as his career moved on but always had the ability to go forwards.

Frank Lampard? What the flaming hell are you on?

And comparing either of them to yesterdays trio is frankly ludicrous and dovetails nicely with your big girls blouse comment which makes you come across as a pompous arse.

If you like the football you are being served up then good for you. Plenty of others don’t and are entitled to say so much like you did under Warburton or had you conveniently forgotten that?

I am not comparing players FFS but positions.

We have descended into this ridiculous mindset whereby any central midfielder who can tackle is a "defensive midfielder" and therefore a negative pick.

I am pointing out that Roy Keane was an outright defender at times and certainly had defensive attributes but never attracted this lable. Frank Lampard was also a central midfielder who could do everything, but again- he was just a central midfielder.

Colback, at this level, can do everything. He is one of (if not statistically the) best passers in the division. He has scored goals for us and he can make the whole thing run. He may be naturally and historically more inclined towards defence, but I believe Keane was a defender at first as well. He is too good for this league.

Yates, likewise can tackle but he can also score and attack. He isn't as attacking a midfielder as Grant, but neither is he like Watson is now.

I personally would prefer to go back to the heady days where we talked about central midfielders rather than "attacking" (thereby, "positive) midfielders and "defensive" (code for "bad if there is more than one, or even one at home) midfielders.

There you go, a whole reasonable reply without any of the insults you felt the need to throw at me

 

[Pope John XXIII]

[QUOTE="Calvin Plummer, post: 1791043, member: 8756"

I've only ever wanted one manager out before 12+ months and that's sadly MON. The same can not be said of you...Maybe best you stick to walking out on Derby games as a sign of what a true supporter you are.[/QUOTE]

Yet O'Neill has a 42% win record....

I support managers I believe in. You claim to support managers you don't believe in just for shits and giggles, but we all know that's not even true. You really are the Boris Johnson of the forum

I can always bring up you bullying pensioners and making sexual comments about teenage girls if you want to get into that kind of thing?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

[QUOTE="Calvin Plummer, post: 1791043, member: 8756"

I've only ever wanted one manager out before 12+ months and that's sadly MON. The same can not be said of you...Maybe best you stick to walking out on Derby games as a sign of what a true supporter you are.

Yet O'Neill has a 42% win record....

I support managers I believe in. You claim to support managers you don't believe in just for shits and giggles, but we all know that's not even true. You really are the Boris Johnson of the forum

I can always bring up you bullying pensioners and making sexual comments about teenage girls if you want to get into that kind of thing?[/QUOTE]

You've brought it up three times already lol and just because you were admonished for that very thing...besides I'm sure there's a reason why you became a teacher