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Plan A B or C

I have criticised Porky for a lack of tactical nous, and for all of the 'fluididity' of the style he likes, playing in a very predictable way. That was definitely true for the first 18 months, with more ideas shown since and Wednesday nights plan being a real sea-change.

Even his most staunch fans admit, at times of disaster, that he frequently does bizarre things in selection and, more so, in substitutions. That is one of the things which keeps me fully committed to considering him to be a muppet, who had riden his small talent further than it deserves.

Yesterday was another of those times when you just watch the team come out and think 'why have you done that?' Then as the games progresses, you watch the substitutions and, again, think 'why?' He is the most baffling manager.
 
Bald Archie - 17/9/2017 13:34

I have criticised Porky for a lack of tactical nous, and for all of the 'fluididity' of the style he likes, playing in a very predictable way. That was definitely true for the first 18 months, with more ideas shown since and Wednesday nights plan being a real sea-change.

Even his most staunch fans admit, at times of disaster, that he frequently does bizarre things in selection and, more so, in substitutions. That is one of the things which keeps me fully committed to considering him to be a muppet, who had riden his small talent further than it deserves.

Yesterday was another of those times when you just watch the team come out and think 'why have you done that?' Then as the games progresses, you watch the substitutions and, again, think 'why?' He is the most baffling manager.
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Davies and Dembele were not 100 % is why selection and formation were more experimental. We did enough to win. Swansea were lucky. It's not that baffling.
 
Nick Real Deal - 17/9/2017 15:39

Bald Archie - 17/9/2017 13:34

I have criticised Porky for a lack of tactical nous, and for all of the 'fluididity' of the style he likes, playing in a very predictable way. That was definitely true for the first 18 months, with more ideas shown since and Wednesday nights plan being a real sea-change.

Even his most staunch fans admit, at times of disaster, that he frequently does bizarre things in selection and, more so, in substitutions. That is one of the things which keeps me fully committed to considering him to be a muppet, who had riden his small talent further than it deserves.

Yesterday was another of those times when you just watch the team come out and think 'why have you done that?' Then as the games progresses, you watch the substitutions and, again, think 'why?' He is the most baffling manager.
Click to expand...

Davies and Dembele were not 100 % is why selection and formation were more experimental. We did enough to win. Swansea were lucky. It's not that baffling.
Click to expand...

It really wasn't baffling at all - if you've studied/taught tactics it was self-evident what he'd set us up to do, patient attack and wear them down, knowing full well that Clements is now more defensively minded than ever and has installed that discipline into his team.

The lesson we have to learn is that playing without width/pace against a determined well-organised team that's determined to play anti-football is very difficult to break down.
 
Pochettino needs a plan B for Wembley

Tottenham Hotspur 0 Swansea City 0
Alan Smith

September 18 2017, 12:01am, The Times
Premier League clips powered by Sky Sports

Tottenham Hotspur have acquired a new problem this season, but it is not the one that Mauricio Pochettino is fed up with discussing. For all the repetitive questions about their temporary home, perhaps the more pressing issue for the Spurs manager is how his team circumvent opponents whose primary aim is to frustrate.

Swansea City executed a defensive masterclass on Saturday, albeit aided by a couple of shambolic decisions from Mike Dean, the referee. So rather than focus on the interminably dull Wembley topic that has left the Argentinian irritated — “I don’t care and it’s not my problem” — it is more pertinent to point out that when faced with resilient opposition they are too reticent to alter their style of play.


It would, of course, be erroneous to claim that Spurs are only capable of playing one way three days after that wonderful, astute counterattacking performance against Borussia Dortmund. But against teams who are determined to sit back and soak up the pressure, they have appeared unable to implement a plan B.

For all of their technical ability in that three-quarter line between midfield and attack, Tottenham’s approach can often be predictable. If at first they don’t succeed, they try the same thing over and over again. Opponents know what they are going to be facing, although stopping the juggernaut has usually proven an entirely different matter.

Paul Clement, it must also be pointed out, has developed a knack for setting his Swansea team up in a way that, while far from aesthetically pleasing, gets results away from home. Including the end of last season, it is now five games on the road since they last conceded in the league and that is no coincidence.

“I said to the players that if we open up today we could potentially get torn apart because they have so many quality players,” the Swansea head coach said. “We had to keep the game tight.”

For what it’s worth, Swansea barely touched the ball in their opponents’ half and this was the third time in five games that they have failed to register a shot on target.
Match stats
Tottenham Hotspur

Tottenham would similarly have known what to expect but when their usual approach was faltering, there was no secondary strategy. The 6ft 4in Fernando Llorente was signed from Swansea for £12 million last month with the intention of offering something different in these situations. When he was brought on for Son Heung-min with 15 minutes to go, there must have been a temptation to be more direct. But no, Tottenham stuck to the script. Intricate to a fault. “We tried all the ways to score but I think sometimes it just is not possible,” Llorente said.

Swansea’s defensive effort was so total that Tammy Abraham, the striker on loan from Chelsea, made more clearances (four) in 72 minutes than he has had shots on target (two) all season.
Key stats

Tottenham have scored twice in three Premier League games at home despite having 72 shots. They have gained two points

2-1 defeat v Chelsea 18 shots
1-1 v Burnley 28
0-0 v Swansea 26

Tellingly, 17 of Spurs’ 26 attempts were from outside the box. Pochettino, though, remains rightly optimistic after what could end up being just a minor setback but his evaluation of their display was arguably a tad too positive. “The performance of the team was so good,” he said. “If you don’t play well, if you don’t create chances, if you concede a lot of chances and drop two points then maybe you can criticise.”

Refreshingly Tottenham’s next two home league fixtures are against Bournemouth, who are unlikely to park the bus, and Liverpool, who are incapable of doing so, but there are more sides who will arrive at the national stadium this season with the same approach as Swansea.

If the tiresome Wembley questions are to stop, then they may need to occasionally abandon their usual pizzazz for bluntness.
 
Tottenham have scored twice in three Premier League games at home despite having 72 shots. They have gained two points

Read more: http://www.spurs.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=43913&posts=25#M1153649#ixzz4t2Bo8x4I
 
Nick Real Deal - 17/9/2017 15:39

Bald Archie - 17/9/2017 13:34

I have criticised Porky for a lack of tactical nous, and for all of the 'fluididity' of the style he likes, playing in a very predictable way. That was definitely true for the first 18 months, with more ideas shown since and Wednesday nights plan being a real sea-change.

Even his most staunch fans admit, at times of disaster, that he frequently does bizarre things in selection and, more so, in substitutions. That is one of the things which keeps me fully committed to considering him to be a muppet, who had riden his small talent further than it deserves.

Yesterday was another of those times when you just watch the team come out and think 'why have you done that?' Then as the games progresses, you watch the substitutions and, again, think 'why?' He is the most baffling manager.
Click to expand...

Davies and Dembele were not 100 % is why selection and formation were more experimental. We did enough to win. Swansea were lucky. It's not that baffling.
Click to expand...

Most forums are full of people somewhat baffled though, not just me.

Did we know that they wouldn't come to attack? I think so. Davies was injured so why not start KWP there (he isn't on the injured list as far as I see) or even Verts and re-arrange the CB's where there are options? Starting Son at LWB (an experiment that failed before) was plain odd.

As the game wore on and it became clear that they were not coming at us, why stick with Dier, who is only good at defending?

Why take Son off later?

Presumably Aurier picked up a knock on Wednesday? (not seen anything confirming that) hence why he didn't start and putting him on eventually looked the right thing, but what could make the manager think that trying Trippier on the left was a good idea? Why bring Llorent on and cut out the possibility to put crosses in?

I know that a manager doesn't have a crystal ball, but I just don't think Porky has the ability to think out options at all well as the first eleven and subs could have been an awful lot better in that respect. Is N'Koudou injured? - again I don;t see his name on the injured list. Pace isn't the answer to everytjing, but nor is having lots of possession.

End of the day they came with a game plan we would have expected and they were successful. We came with a half-baked gameplan that failed. Nowhere near melt-down time, but this is the hurdle we have to overcome if we are to be successful.
 
Bald Archie - 18/9/2017 14:21

Nick Real Deal - 17/9/2017 15:39

Bald Archie - 17/9/2017 13:34

I have criticised Porky for a lack of tactical nous, and for all of the 'fluididity' of the style he likes, playing in a very predictable way. That was definitely true for the first 18 months, with more ideas shown since and Wednesday nights plan being a real sea-change.

Even his most staunch fans admit, at times of disaster, that he frequently does bizarre things in selection and, more so, in substitutions. That is one of the things which keeps me fully committed to considering him to be a muppet, who had riden his small talent further than it deserves.

Yesterday was another of those times when you just watch the team come out and think 'why have you done that?' Then as the games progresses, you watch the substitutions and, again, think 'why?' He is the most baffling manager.
Click to expand...

Davies and Dembele were not 100 % is why selection and formation were more experimental. We did enough to win. Swansea were lucky. It's not that baffling.
Click to expand...

Most forums are full of people somewhat baffled though, not just me.

Did we know that they wouldn't come to attack? I think so. Davies was injured so why not start KWP there (he isn't on the injured list as far as I see) or even Verts and re-arrange the CB's where there are options? Starting Son at LWB (an experiment that failed before) was plain odd.

As the game wore on and it became clear that they were not coming at us, why stick with Dier, who is only good at defending?

Why take Son off later?

Presumably Aurier picked up a knock on Wednesday? (not seen anything confirming that) hence why he didn't start and putting him on eventually looked the right thing, but what could make the manager think that trying Trippier on the left was a good idea? Why bring Llorent on and cut out the possibility to put crosses in?

I know that a manager doesn't have a crystal ball, but I just don't think Porky has the ability to think out options at all well as the first eleven and subs could have been an awful lot better in that respect. Is N'Koudou injured? - again I don;t see his name on the injured list. Pace isn't the answer to everytjing, but nor is having lots of possession.

End of the day they came with a game plan we would have expected and they were successful. We came with a half-baked gameplan that failed. Nowhere near melt-down time, but this is the hurdle we have to overcome if we are to be successful.
Click to expand...

Agree about KWP at LB but he's not left footed either so wouldn't have given us much more natural width than Son.

N'Koudou has been out injured since pre-season. Aurier hit crosses from the right when he came on.

Also I think Dier can definitely pick a pass and is an aerial goal threat, whilst he didn't do either of these things in this match I think "just good at defending" is a little harsh. He often puts us on the front foot faster than Dembele, but in this match I think Dembele's ability to go past people in tight spaces may have worked better, but I'm saying that with hindsight.
 
The strange move if Tripps to the left did yield a cracking faded shot from him which just missed the left post. Fabianski was beaten for once. If it goes in Poch is a genius.
 
Nick Real Deal - 18/9/2017 18:13

The strange move if Tripps to the left did yield a cracking faded shot from him which just missed the left post. Fabianski was beaten for once. If it goes in Poch is a genius.
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Spot on Nick, it was all fine margins stuff - Clement is being lauded for a defensive master class, but just one slip, one rub of the green, one penalty and he'd have been ripped apart by Swansea fans for being so defensive..

Sissoko could have been credited with two assists, instead he's being lampooned - I don't rate him, but if he'd got the assists, he'd have probably been grudgingly hailed for having an effective game.

Objectivity lasts about as long as the first burst of frustration.
 
Yup many fine margins in the game which is why I made the over reaction comment. I guess it was a little confrontational in the heat of the moment .

I remember me putting my head in my hands each time Fabianski saved and Kane came so close. I was frustrated too but didn't feel the doom was justified .
 
Nick Real Deal - 18/9/2017 18:51

Yup many fine margins in the game which is why I made the over reaction comment. I guess it was a little confrontational in the heat of the moment .

I remember me putting my head in my hands each time Fabianski saved and Kane came so close. I was frustrated too but didn't feel the doom was justified .
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Exactly the same here - the direction of travel is still up and forwards.
 
Fine margins of course, but similar excuses are always given when we do something like this. The fine margins that really need to be looked at and improved are the recruitment of players that properly fill the need, choice of matchday squad and team, and the tactical ones. That is where we fall down, and it is no use blaming referees or the woodwork.
 
Nobody has blamed the woodwork. It was mention in the context of how close we came to scoring and as a clear cut chance after accusations of us not breaking them down.
 
Actually a lot of people (not necessarily here) have blamed the woodwork...'if only Kanes effort had not hit the woodwork'. That sort of event is one of the best examples of there being a fine line between success and failure.
 
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