Petty Arguments | Page 3 | Vital Football

Petty Arguments

I'm sure if things start to go badly and we lose a few in a row that the traffic will shoot up as people want to understandably vent frustration and thats when the arguments will start!

So if any moderator on here want to know when they are most likely to be needed just look at the form table.
 
Henski has foxtrot oscar so the antagonistic posting has disappeared. Plenty of healthy debate and differences of opinion still, yet very respectful in the main and long may it continue.

The football is absolutely fine, we look capable of competing at this level for the first time in years. I'm looking forward to a stress free season of mid table mediocrity for a change. I think the Championship is an open league this season so should generate a lot of interesting games.

Fear not however, we'll still find summat to argue about. The never ending takeover for one. Plus I'm not sure whether we actually got to the bottom of whether beating Sheff Wed was a joy or not.
Would be happy mid table but how wonderful would it be to finish ahead of the Billy Big Bollocks like Leeds Villa Middlesbrough Derby etc. A win tomorrow and we are third in the table and ahead of most of them. COYL.
 
It would be a hell of an achievement for sure Jeffs Right.... you have a chance to finish against Villa unless we get shot of Bruce!
 
It would be a hell of an achievement for sure Jeffs Right.... you have a chance to finish against Villa unless we get shot of Bruce!


Cant believe you want shut of Steve Bruce you wont get many Wigan fans calling Potato Head. Brucie has a well proven track record and is in the top 5 managers in the country you guys should be very careful what you wish for, If Cook were to move on I'd have him back in a heartbeat
 
To be honest i think Villa should give Bruce the boot at this point, the squad he has should see him storming this division.

I think Bruce has been a very solid manager over his career but i am wondering if as the game evolves he's starting to be left behind a little. Or maybe it's just he's the type of manager who can thrive at a small club like ourselves, Birmingham or Hull where he can exceed expectations on a modest budget compared to his rivals, but when he's at a big club with big ambitions and massive amounts of cash to spend he's just not that type of manager.

Up until we got Cook i'd have taken Bruce back in a heartbeat but now if God forbid Cook left us and Bruce was available i wouldn't be that sure anymore.
 
In my own opinion Bruce is the epitome of disloyal and I personally wouldn't want him back. He is a decent manager but seems to have little or no loyalty to clubs or supporters. I know that in the modern game loyalty is out of fashion, but I suppose I am old fashioned in this respect. I appreciate that managers are still just employees and are working to support their loved ones and if opportunities come along they will probably take them but I think that the old saying that "money isn't everything" should sometimes be taken into consideration. Bruce seems to follow the money.

I also think he is limited and when he reaches that limit he is found lacking and moves on to the next club.
 
Would take Bruce back in an instant if Cook ever does the dirty on us. Understands the club, knows how to get promotion, great at finding cheap gems in the transfer market, his best successes have been with smaller clubs like Brum, us and Hull and importantly he like Cook will get the best out of Nick Powell. Top man manager.

A mute point anyway, he’d never come back here and wouldn’t be out of work to do so. Will be showered with offers if Villa pull the trigger. Reckon Stoke will be front of the queue.
 
Steve Bruce was an abomination of a manager who shackled the club with three highly paid warm bodies; de Ridder, Kapo and Kingson who came on a combined £90k a week. He decimated a burgeoning youth system with a good, steady hand in charge in Paul Kelly to fund those three. He played hoofball half the time and because his teams are compact and run around a lot he gets praise from certain section of the footballing world. He leaves when things get a bit tough or his tactics get found wanting. He's a part of this merry-go-round of managers who don't actually seem to be all that competent, yet get appointed anyway because chairmen don't want to take what they perceive as a risk on a younger, probably far more talented manager. He, McKay and Coyle are all of the same ilk and we should never, ever look to hire that sort again.
 
Steve Bruce was an abomination of a manager who shackled the club with three highly paid warm bodies; de Ridder, Kapo and Kingson who came on a combined £90k a week. He decimated a burgeoning youth system with a good, steady hand in charge in Paul Kelly to fund those three. He played hoofball half the time and because his teams are compact and run around a lot he gets praise from certain section of the footballing world. He leaves when things get a bit tough or his tactics get found wanting. He's a part of this merry-go-round of managers who don't actually seem to be all that competent, yet get appointed anyway because chairmen don't want to take what they perceive as a risk on a younger, probably far more talented manager. He, McKay and Coyle are all of the same ilk and we should never, ever look to hire that sort again.
:slap::slap::slap:
 
Steve Bruce was an abomination of a manager who shackled the club with three highly paid warm bodies; de Ridder, Kapo and Kingson who came on a combined £90k a week. He decimated a burgeoning youth system with a good, steady hand in charge in Paul Kelly to fund those three. He played hoofball half the time and because his teams are compact and run around a lot he gets praise from certain section of the footballing world. He leaves when things get a bit tough or his tactics get found wanting. He's a part of this merry-go-round of managers who don't actually seem to be all that competent, yet get appointed anyway because chairmen don't want to take what they perceive as a risk on a younger, probably far more talented manager. He, McKay and Coyle are all of the same ilk and we should never, ever look to hire that sort again.

Bollocks.
 
Steve Bruce was an abomination of a manager who shackled the club with three highly paid warm bodies; de Ridder, Kapo and Kingson who came on a combined £90k a week. He decimated a burgeoning youth system with a good, steady hand in charge in Paul Kelly to fund those three. He played hoofball half the time and because his teams are compact and run around a lot he gets praise from certain section of the footballing world. He leaves when things get a bit tough or his tactics get found wanting. He's a part of this merry-go-round of managers who don't actually seem to be all that competent, yet get appointed anyway because chairmen don't want to take what they perceive as a risk on a younger, probably far more talented manager. He, McKay and Coyle are all of the same ilk and we should never, ever look to hire that sort again.

While Bruce was not without his faults, i think this is very harsh.

If you look back at what Bruce inherited when he walked into the club we were looking very likely to go down and he worked wonders.

Bruce had his fair share of bad signings, but so did Martinez, Jewell and Cook. You can't condemn a manager for his worst without giving him credit for his best business and he signed some very good players who we were able to sell on for massive profits or who were great servents and left on frees (Cattermole, Palacios, Figureoa, Rodellega, Zog, Watson, even Zaki for a brief spell was absolute dynamite) . He also managed to turn some average players into strong Premier League performers (Bramble, Valencia, Kirkland, Scharner, Ryan Taylor all drastically improved under him).

The team he had was one of the best sides we ever had, it was full of pace, power, was aggressive, well organised and had plenty of heart and workrate. The first 12 of Bruces 18 months here was one of the most enjoyable times to be a Latics fan as we stayed up at a canter are were well on our way to qualifying for Europe. The issue came when Palacios was sold against Bruces wishes it seemed Bruce downed tools and that last 6 months the football was dour, results and performances awful as we squandered a top 7 or 8 finish that was in reach. That spell was pretty gaulling after a season that promised so much just fell apart.

I'm happy for anyone to be as negative as they like about the end of Bruce's reign, and there were plenty of mistakes he deserves critasism for but let's not let the end cloud our memories of how good some of that first 12 months was. Bruce was one of the best managers we've ever had at the time.
 
Some fair points there KDZ, and when I "liked" the post by Soccerates, my memory was probably ( as you suggest) clouded by those final few months (in the same way as those who disliked Martinez always remember the Blackpool and Tottenham results instead of the Arsenal and West Ham ones).

In fact, there's a point - for all the good he did, Bruce still never managed a win against any of the "big 4".
 
4 Championship promotions to the Prem. plus ‘hit the bar’ last season and ....he has kept teams up, unlike say N Warnock who has a similar promotion record but always seems to struggle to get past the first season up. (Doubt this season will be any exception)
Not great to watch, (but for an hour at Anfield and the Zaki double, we were mucking fagnificent until robbed by a bent ref ( and Gerrard fiddling)
So maybe a bit harsh Soccerates ?
 
Steve Bruce was an abomination of a manager who shackled the club with three highly paid warm bodies; de Ridder, Kapo and Kingson who came on a combined £90k a week. He decimated a burgeoning youth system with a good, steady hand in charge in Paul Kelly to fund those three. He played hoofball half the time and because his teams are compact and run around a lot he gets praise from certain section of the footballing world. He leaves when things get a bit tough or his tactics get found wanting. He's a part of this merry-go-round of managers who don't actually seem to be all that competent, yet get appointed anyway because chairmen don't want to take what they perceive as a risk on a younger, probably far more talented manager. He, McKay and Coyle are all of the same ilk and we should never, ever look to hire that sort again.


What utter rubbish - before it was dismantled, the side under Steve Bruce circa January 2009 was the best that Latics have ever had.
Yes he bought some duffers but so has every manager & at least the 3 you mentioned didn't cost the £6mill (+ wages) that Bobby's Argentinian wonder man did - not to mention it ultimately leading to Benson's (poor manager but apparently an excellent scout & director of football) departure when he advised Bobby & Whelan that the signing wouldn't work

He took a side going nowhere but down under Hutchings & conceding an average of 2.5 goals a game to one with a defensive record that during his first season was down to just over 1 a game.
Within 3 matches of him taking over he'd taken a frankly shambolic side & transformed it to one that held its own against the best sides in the division (drew with Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea & Tottenham in that season).

If you take his points per game ration in that first season & put it over a 38 game period then we'd have got 51 points 7 finished 10th
The season after in the 20 games before his squad started to be sold out from underneath him Latics were on target to get 59 points that would have seen us finish 7th quite comfortably & qualify for Europe.

Did he decimate the youth set up?? I don't know to be honest but Latics were in a different era then & none of our managers under Whelan had prioritised it & the chairman hadn't wanted them to. It seems odd to single out Bruce for destroying it when under Deehan, Mathias, Benson, Rioch, Jewell & Hutchings I can remember 1 player being brought through the youth ranks - Leighton Baines

Yes the back end of that full season under Bruce was garbage but he'd had essential parts of his squad sold out against his express wishes & it was clear that the Wigan Athletic he'd been sold was going to change quite drastically. You can say he jumped ship when the going got tough but if I joined somewhere where they said I'd have a big budget, the freedom to hire & get rid of whoever I pleased & little over a year later was told "Actually no, your budget is being slashed, I'm going to release whoever I see fit & replace them with cheaper alternatives & all I ever want to do is tread water" then the chances are that I'd look for somewhere else.
How was Bruce supposed to motivate his squad to perform when the owner openly said "Job done. We're staying up. The rest of the season is about flogging who we can to build a squad for next season to see if we can stay up then too"? Jewell found the same problem when he refused to set any target above the 40 point mark even when it was clear that we'd stay up by some distance - when we reached that target, results tailed off

Martinez took the job under completely different circumstances to Bruce & knew how the budget was going to be reduced. He however can be accused of jumping ship when the going got tough & we'd been relegated

Would I want Bruce back now? Probably not, its 9 years later & he seems to have lost his mojo and I'd agree that he's now on that managerial merry go round where owners go for a perceived safe option, but for the circumstances of the time he's one of the best managers that we've ever had
 
In fact, there's a point - for all the good he did, Bruce still never managed a win against any of the "big 4".

No but he did draw against Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham in his first season & in the 2nd season beat Tottenham (who admittedly weren't the team then that they are now) for the first time & drew with Liverpool again
I also remember Scharner giving an interview in the months after Bruce joined saying that for the first time since he'd been at the club they were going into games against the "big" teams believing that they could get something out of them
Jewell on the other hand used to openly admit that he'd written those games off & often used them to experiment with different line ups & tactics
 
In further defence of Bruce, it should be pointed out that even taking into account the post-January nose dive in his full season, Latics still had the 7th best defensive record in the division (45 goals).
By comparison the following season, Bobby's team (with virtually the same defence) had conceded 44 goals before the New Year's fixtures (19 games)
 
So... Bruce did great, with a big budget, but then fecked off when Whelan took his money box away (after sulking through the back end of the season).

&

Martinez did OK with a massively reduced budget (that Bruce walked away from) and then fecked off after " the greatest day".

Let me know if I've got it wrong.
???
 
So... Bruce did great, with a big budget, but then fecked off when Whelan took his money box away (after sulking through the back end of the season).

&

Martinez did OK with a massively reduced budget (that Bruce walked away from) and then fecked off after " the greatest day".

Let me know if I've got it wrong.
???
Let’s try not to gloss over the fact that Martinez spunked away a club record fee on a complete flop. I love the man, but I’m not going to ignore his negative moments to suit my agenda.

What would Martinez have done with Bruce’s budget and Bruce with Martinez’s budget? I guess we’ll never know.