V
Villan Of The North
Guest
Surely all you have done there is highlight the need for good incentive scheme, not argued that PRP is inherently a bad idea.
Surely all you have done there is highlight the need for good incentive scheme, not argued that PRP is inherently a bad idea.
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
Exactly. That's why my teachers earn a flat salary. PRP in teaching leads to teachers teaching for the test.
OnMeHeadFred
Vital Reserves Team
Reading what I have written it is impossible to disagree with your conclusion. :94:
HeathfieldRoad1874
Miserable Sod
whilst not quite as vociferous about, it I do find myself leaning towards agreeing with GT, here. I've worked in a Sales driven environment, and all it does is create miss-selling. Just look at the PPI scandal with the Banks, which is really just the tip f the Iceberg of their problems.
We did a study our Staff, and it was very surprising that greater pay was very low down on their list of wants. Recognition from their peers, and an enjoyable work environment both came out higher.
I don't set targets for my Staff. I monitor their performance in other ways, all of which they respond well to.
We did a study our Staff, and it was very surprising that greater pay was very low down on their list of wants. Recognition from their peers, and an enjoyable work environment both came out higher.
I don't set targets for my Staff. I monitor their performance in other ways, all of which they respond well to.
G
Guest
Guest
Recognition from their peers, and an enjoyable work environment both came out higher.
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Exactly, workers want a happy environment to work in..Teachers are at present under immense pressure to get to certain goals - yet each pupil is a different case. The kids at the bottom of queue are just being passed onto special needs - its easier that way. Schools are becoming more picky about who can enter and who cant - they all want the top grade pupils because it makes them look a better school. A slow learning pupil, it can take a huge amount of patience - yet the teacher wont be given this patience.
Its similar in hospitals - it shouldnt be based on how many babies you can deliver in a day. Im not naming anyone here but I know a case(from someone internally) where more unneeded C - Sections are carried out because they are quicker. Natural child birth can be lengthy and time is of the essence here. GP's have to speedy through each patient too..Mis-diagnosis, dirty hospitals - its all rush, rush, rush = targets, targets, targets...
Is this the life we all want?
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Exactly, workers want a happy environment to work in..Teachers are at present under immense pressure to get to certain goals - yet each pupil is a different case. The kids at the bottom of queue are just being passed onto special needs - its easier that way. Schools are becoming more picky about who can enter and who cant - they all want the top grade pupils because it makes them look a better school. A slow learning pupil, it can take a huge amount of patience - yet the teacher wont be given this patience.
Its similar in hospitals - it shouldnt be based on how many babies you can deliver in a day. Im not naming anyone here but I know a case(from someone internally) where more unneeded C - Sections are carried out because they are quicker. Natural child birth can be lengthy and time is of the essence here. GP's have to speedy through each patient too..Mis-diagnosis, dirty hospitals - its all rush, rush, rush = targets, targets, targets...
Is this the life we all want?
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
The problem, as highlighted by someone on QT last night, is how the incentives are set.
You teach special needs for instance, you aren't going to get A+ students but the work you do is just as important as those teaching A grade students.
Also, some students will never be A grade and we don't set up schools to help them learn other skills and the teachers with those classes are also, then, surely penalised?
A decent incentive if set right is good in any (well, not any, but many) lines of work.
I don't like automatic bonuses.
You teach special needs for instance, you aren't going to get A+ students but the work you do is just as important as those teaching A grade students.
Also, some students will never be A grade and we don't set up schools to help them learn other skills and the teachers with those classes are also, then, surely penalised?
A decent incentive if set right is good in any (well, not any, but many) lines of work.
I don't like automatic bonuses.
G
Guest
Guest
It was also highlighted on QT last night that in Singapore the teachers dont have PRP and yet produce some of the world's best students.
My scenario is a bit annoying, 2 people have been made redundant at my work over the past year and i've basically taken over their jobs aswell as my own role.
Not a sniff of a payrise despite the fact im covering 3 jobs for a 1/3rd of the actual going rate salary.
Penny pinching fcukers!
Not a sniff of a payrise despite the fact im covering 3 jobs for a 1/3rd of the actual going rate salary.
Penny pinching fcukers!
G
Guest
Guest
This happened a lot when they brought in the minimum wage. Glass collectors in pubs which brought in a bit of extra pocket money for housewives or students suddenly became the job for the bar maids instead. The little jobs like sweeping the floor at the hairdressers every Saturday, washing the cars on forecourts etc they got the teenagers off the streets and onto the job ladders - gave them a little money and sense of being. Yet the minimum wage is too much to employ for such jobs, so they were given to the existing full time staff.
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
You can't compare Asian schools with Western schools. Asian schools focus entirely on rote learning so the students are stuffed full of facts but have no idea what to do with them.
Asian kids excel in maths and science because they are all about rote learning but do terribly at any creative subjects because there is nobody to tell them the correct answer.
gator
Vital Champions League
Quite a few years ago I worked on the council on a bonus scheme I worked my balls off and averaged about 50/60 quid a week bonus.If you didn't do enough work to earn bonus you got what was called a fall back bonus £17.50 a week this was designed for the fiddly jobs when it was virtually impossible to make bonus.But about 85% of the workforce were just happy to do naff all and get the fall back could never get my head round that I even earned myself a bad name because of it lol.
G
Guest
Guest
Teachers also need to have some pride in the work they do...A child should be worth a lot more to a teacher than being just a number. PRP then you just create a conveyor belt effect, the pride and passion gets taken over by red tape, targets and tests on performance..Yet humanity is so diverse and each case is completely different. The teacher knows his pupils like a DR should know his patients.
CDX_EIRE
Vital Football Legend
GT our society is skewed towards those who produce the most because we live in a world designed for consumption...
We buy new things because its cheaper than fixing it... The worst is 'design life' we could easily make things last longer but no we make cheap and easy to reproduce and replace... I think thats part of the reason why sustainability or long lasting things are doomed to failure... It makes much more sense to build a rood that will last 60 years for 25k up front than it does to build a roof and re do it twice for 15k upfront and then 10k for each remodel...
But people only see the now...
The most important people in our society are not respected or paid enough... Teachers have a gigantic bearing on your childs life yet they get far less than a corporate banker who moves around money... Teachers and nurses and other civil servants should be high up on the chain of respect and pay... Unfortunately thats the domain of the government for the most part so it will remain an area to cut costs...
We buy new things because its cheaper than fixing it... The worst is 'design life' we could easily make things last longer but no we make cheap and easy to reproduce and replace... I think thats part of the reason why sustainability or long lasting things are doomed to failure... It makes much more sense to build a rood that will last 60 years for 25k up front than it does to build a roof and re do it twice for 15k upfront and then 10k for each remodel...
But people only see the now...
The most important people in our society are not respected or paid enough... Teachers have a gigantic bearing on your childs life yet they get far less than a corporate banker who moves around money... Teachers and nurses and other civil servants should be high up on the chain of respect and pay... Unfortunately thats the domain of the government for the most part so it will remain an area to cut costs...
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
The nail on the head has already been hit.
Nothing wrong with PRP, but the problem is in organising it fairly so it works.
Is it more inherently unfair than generic rises just because people don't get the sack. Overall I'd say no.
Nothing wrong with PRP, but the problem is in organising it fairly so it works.
Is it more inherently unfair than generic rises just because people don't get the sack. Overall I'd say no.
Villan57
Alert Team
Causes secrecy , back stabbing and competition to out do everyone else in the "team" therefore you're not a team .
Thats my experience of where I'm working now.
Shop floor get the full rise regardless , staff get half plus, the other half if they have performed beyond what is expected of them and us contractors get our contracts renewed at the same rate as it was 3 years ago like it or lump it , providing we do over and above .
all creates a piss poor working environment , full of arse lickers , backstabbers and people stressed beyond belief.
Thats my experience of where I'm working now.
Shop floor get the full rise regardless , staff get half plus, the other half if they have performed beyond what is expected of them and us contractors get our contracts renewed at the same rate as it was 3 years ago like it or lump it , providing we do over and above .
all creates a piss poor working environment , full of arse lickers , backstabbers and people stressed beyond belief.
