Only in America... | Page 68 | Vital Football

Only in America...

hulloutpost said:
Be careful not to look in that particular mirror.

You are right to mention the the weekend though, we have important footballing matters to turn to. Cheers, UTI
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Not sure that's totally fair as I try to engage with your points (as I did on the alleged hilary Clinton hacking scandal) but when presented with evidence in contrary to your positions you always move to something else, or have to be pressed three or four times to address the question. It's clear you've made your mind up so I don't know why you post sky news Australia videos here and then get mad when anyone suggests it might not be as clear as you say.

Ah well.
 
Rasenimp said:
Not sure that's totally fair as I try to engage with your points (as I did on the alleged hilary Clinton hacking scandal) but when presented with evidence in contrary to your positions you always move to something else, or have to be pressed three or four times to address the question. It's clear you've made your mind up so I don't know why you post sky news Australia videos here and then get mad when anyone suggests it might not be as clear as you say.

Ah well.
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I'm just getting the info/opinions out there to an (very small) audience who may not otherwise see or consider the subjects.

I do respect your different pov and whilst we may not agree on content (or indeed how we address each others points that are raised), I usually feel after a good passionately spoken ding dong that we've both put a reasonable flavour out there for us and anyone else to consider, or give a small flavour of what we may happen to be highlighting.

I always see our differing discussion points as merely a starting point and if people become aware of an issue and are at all interested in it, encourage them to dig deeper into it themselves and draw their own conclusions and opinions. I would hate anybody to simply agree or disagree with the limited details we raise between ourselves.
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ing-republicans-russia-ukraine-disinformation
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:sleep: Would that be the same disinformation that Hunter Biden's lap top was a Russian plant to destabilise the US elections (completely debunked) or that Trump colluded with Russia to destabilise the US elections (completely debunked - Trump says, Hi Hils see you in court).

Anybody see the (debunked) pattern yet. I suppose for every Fox News there is a Guardian though. People could actually try watching Fox News to find out what they really do say and think about Russia and Putin. Personally, I like to read the Guardian and watch Fox News; it kinda gives me balance on what both are saying.

Time will tell, but I suspect the Bidens have more real worries concerning back handers from the Chinese Communist Party, than Republicans have to worry about boring, bs - repetitive claims linking them to supporting Putin and Russia.
 
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MaineRoad_96 said:
Oh Tiss. Loved him as a player. Now he’s gone full on tinfoil - funny how all these ‘free thinkers’ just parrot lines from Fox News innit?
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Democrats Watch Fox News More Than CNN or MSNBC | CNSNews

That's strange, more Democrats would rather watch Fox for their news than those well known Democrat hate baiters CNN and MSNBC.

Don't tell me - they do so for the comedy value. Yeah, it must be that.

How's the new CNN+ channel doing btw. I see after a few days they are already talking of binning it off to another platform (Discovery was it?) as it has tanked and is costing millions. Perhaps that's a bit premature though; look how well GB News is doing after all the doom mongering and attempts to get it cancelled.
 
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hulloutpost said:
Democrats Watch Fox News More Than CNN or MSNBC | CNSNews

That's strange, more Democrats would rather watch Fox for their news than those well known Democrat hate baiters CNN and MSNBC.

Don't tell me - they do so for the comedy value. Yeah, it must be that.

How's the new CNN+ channel doing btw. I see after a few days they are already talking of binning it off to another platform (Discovery was it?) as it has tanked and is costing millions. Perhaps that's a bit premature though; look how well GB News is doing after all the doom mongering and attempts to get it cancelled.
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Doesn't this just make the point more salient - people like Le Tiss claim that they've got an an anti-establishment view, no media cover any of these talking points and lie about them, yet they're a copy of mainstream media talking points watched by millions?
 
Rasenimp said:
Doesn't this just make the point more salient - people like Le Tiss claim that they've got an an anti-establishment view, no media cover any of these talking points and lie about them, yet they're a copy of mainstream media talking points watched by millions?
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I find it hugely amusing that supporting people like Farage, Trump, Johnson et al is seen as "anti-establishment".

Useful idiots.
 
Rasenimp said:
Doesn't this just make the point more salient - people like Le Tiss claim that they've got an an anti-establishment view, no media cover any of these talking points and lie about them, yet they're a copy of mainstream media talking points watched by millions?
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It depends on whether you think the media lie about any given subject and on some things they do. For a fact they lied about Rittenhouse (repeatedly) and Hunter's lap top (repeatedly).

Other media output sometimes falls under differing opinions or interpretation such as Covid. Some make mistakes (deliberate or otherwise) or are uninformed.

I take your point to a degree though, but the issues I have referenced (just a microcosm) also explain why people are so mistrusting of the media and some pretty whacky stuff that shouldn't, takes legs; in addition to the stuff that should be legitimately challenged.

If the media and politicians don't want people to be confused, mistaken or even correct and driven to hold a different opinion to one that suits their agenda, they need to sort out their integrity.

I don't expect politicians to do so, but the media should behave in a more responsible manner as in many respects we rely on them to hold the politicians to account when individuals cannot.
 
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hulloutpost said:
It depends on whether you think the media lie about any given subject and on some things they do. For a fact they lied about Rittenhouse (repeatedly) and Hunter's lap top (repeatedly).

Other media output sometimes falls under differing opinions or interpretation such as Covid. Some make mistakes (deliberate or otherwise) or are uninformed.

I take your point to a degree though, but the issues I have referenced (just a microcosm) also explain why people are so mistrusting of the media and some pretty whacky stuff that shouldn't, takes legs; in addition to the stuff that should be legitimately challenged.

If the media and politicians don't want people to be confused, mistaken or even correct and driven to hold a different opinion to one that suits their agenda, they need to sort out their integrity.

I don't expect politicians to do so, but the media should behave in a more responsible manner as in many respects we rely on them to hold the politicians to account when individuals cannot.
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I didn't really follow the Rittenhouse case, so you may have a point (I thought it might be better for my sanity, but I do recall some false statements), but on the Hunter Biden one, I do sort of take your point in terms of the Russian misinformation part (and it being overly 'poo-pooed') but even then, the existence of at least one/some e-mails being real doesn't prove there wasn't some sort of campaign of misinformation. The how-the-laptop-came-about-story is still batshit crazy, as covered earlier in this thread, and it does seem like at least some material may not be legitimate although some has been verified and is. I know you called it a conspiracy to say that point, but the stuff that Gaetz, Giuliani, Carlson claim is on there seems ludicrous to not release if there isn't some reason not to. The Hunter Biden bioweapons stuff surfacing from Russian media also lends credence to a misinformation campaign right? And Fox have also been reporting on that 'debunked' stuff, like the bioweapon funding, which even you admitted was a bit dubious before they reported on it (which is one of the things the Guardian article above referenced which you poo-pooed). It seems a slightly convenient and dubious position to go 'NYT say e-mail real, ergo all misinformation claims are false'?

And while it's totally true that liberal/left media might not report on some stuff you want them to, in the same way Fox or the Daily Mail were more likely to report negatively about Biden/Obama than Trump, or might go after Hunter more than Ivanka. None of that seems entirely surprising, and none of it is hugely relevant to the 'lied' point, as in almost all cases the info is out there.

So I guess there are some points of agreement, but I'm not sure they stand up in say, Le Tissier's case here.
 
I can agree Le Tiss has, ahem gone out on a bit of a limb on most of his topics of choice here, but I still go back to 'this' sort of thing being driven by the failings of media as much as his foibles.

It's possible we are more or less trusting of different respective media outlets because of our different political points of view which is understandable human nature, and I would say due to that we're unlikely to agree on which ones are worse than others and how bad or relevant the problem is. I can accept though that they are all guilty of it including Fox (a teeny bit :grinning:) - bio weapons is a fair example.

I don't actually have a problem with political bias in the media (so long as it's not dressed up as more than the opinion it is) and understand 'radio silence' if it's not a story favourable to their agenda. It's the lies, smears, mis leading etc. on actual news and facts that gets my goat. That takes us back to which organisations are worse and where we probably do diverge more.

Perhaps I can sum my position up as, regardless of the extent or otherwise of the media 'problem', not everything is conspiracy theory from every person, all of the time....unless you're David Icke of course.
 
Well, well, well. Some very interesting dynamics emerging in the battle for control of 'the message' in America. It would appear that as Biden's ratings tank to historic lows and he has somehow managed to become even less popular than Trump, the conservatives are taking the fight to the liberals over there; with a number of seemingly unconnected occurrences.

Fox News is hoovering up the audience as CNN+ folds in a month and their parent company plus MSNBC audience share shrinks quicker than a planet caught in the cross hairs of a blast from the Death Star.

Elon Musk buys Twitter vowing to destroy the censorship algorithms and replace them with open source searches putting free speech front and centre.

Meanwhile, Disney for half a century have self governed (literally) like an independent country within Florida - enjoying unimaginable freedoms, unaccountability and tax breaks like no other individual, business or corporation could dream of. The Florida governor De Santis decided to introduce a bill to prevent the alleged sexual radicalisation of children aged 5 to 8, on issues he felt they cannot understand and shouldn't be exposed to. Disney responded by having a 'right on' hissy fit - demanding that Florida don't enact the bill and they would be opposing the Florida law.

That particular vacuous bout of virtue signalling has not ended well for them. The law has been passed and with the sweep of a pen their half century special status has been wiped out overnight, to let them know who is actually in charge of Florida, namely the democratically elected governors and not a privileged mega rich corporation. They are now able to reflect in angst at the cost of being subject to full on Floridian regulation, scrutiny and tax; ouch, ouch and thrice ouch. Somebody is going to get fired off Space Mountain for their 'principled' stance on that one.

Even the notoriously left leaning Washington Post and NYT are no longer in denial about the Hunter Biden lap top and are (relatively) openly talking about the grand jury/criminal net closing in on Hunter and the Fed investigation being extended to cover other members of the Biden family. I can't wait to find out who the 'Big Guy' is, that was creaming off 10% of the kick backs from Chinese state companies and dodgy Ukraine businesses :unsure:

It can't be Joe though, he's historically gone on the record to state that the lap top is fake and that he never met any of Hunter's business partners (no idea who the people in those pictures are) or had any idea what Hunter was doing in China when he accompanied Dad on Joe's official vice president trip there as part of the Obama administration .

The liberal fringe shouldn't panic just yet though, after all they still control Tik Tok.

The American mid terms are just around the corner. It's about to get interesting.
 
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America could become close to ungovernable one day in the near future... partly because of the very anti democratic elements of the Federal Republic that are often lauded for its democracy. An ancient constitution that is valued like a sacred religious text, and the Supreme Court whose balance and therefore judgements purely depends on the timing of previous judges deaths and retirements
 
imp73 said:
America could become close to ungovernable one day in the near future... partly because of the very anti democratic elements of the Federal Republic that are often lauded for its democracy. An ancient constitution that is valued like a sacred religious text, and the Supreme Court whose balance and therefore judgements purely depends on the timing of previous judges deaths and retirements
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It does feel like the place is descending into chaos, certainly in some areas. Many countries have their 'rough' and their 'posh' areas/cities but the US is in danger of splitting into absolute extremes of that, where dystopian movies like Escape from New York are uncomfortably too near the bone for some, whilst ultra nice zones guarded by armed zealots become an enclave for others.

Crime, sometimes serious offences are now effectively decriminalized or completely ignored - particularly seen in places like Chicago, Portland and LA. I've never been more disinclined to return to the States and I would certainly start with checking whether an area I was thinking of visiting was red or blue before I did; it appears to be getting that partisan.
 
hulloutpost said:
It does feel like the place is descending into chaos, certainly in some areas. Many countries have their 'rough' and their 'posh' areas/cities but the US is in danger of splitting into absolute extremes of that, where dystopian movies like Escape from New York are uncomfortably too near the bone for some, whilst ultra nice zones guarded by armed zealots become an enclave for others.

Crime, sometimes serious offences are now effectively decriminalized or completely ignored - particularly seen in places like Chicago, Portland and LA. I've never been more disinclined to return to the States and I would certainly start with checking whether an area I was thinking of visiting was red or blue before I did; it appears to be getting that partisan.
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I went to LA/Vegas in March for two weeks and had a great time (it's true there are some massive issues with inequality and crime etc but staying even in downtown LA it wasn't really noticeably worse than some places in the UK, although when driving into the city you saw more tents/homeless etc). I think you'd still have a good time and sadly I guess as a tourist you can ignore/avoid a lot of the issues.
 
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