Only in America... | Page 33 | Vital Football

Only in America...

NottyImp said:
I agree with much of your post, but Twitter's rules should apply to Trump just as they to do to anyone else. He puts his trousers on one leg at a time, just the same as the rest of us.

If Trump has violated Twitter's terms of use, he needs to banned just Like Joe Hillbilly in his survivalist militia encampment in deepest Kentucky spewing fascist and racist filth would be.
Click to expand...

Yeah I see what your saying, but to my mind the best rebuttal to moronic racism is through argument and reason, not censorship. Otherwise they become martyrs (in their own eyes and in the eyes of their followers). I really do think part of our problem is the lack of critical thought, and surely banning things contributes to this?
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
Yeah I see what your saying, but to my mind the best rebuttal to moronic racism is through argument and reason, not censorship. Otherwise they become martyrs (in their own eyes and in the eyes of their followers). I really do think part of our problem is the lack of critical thought, and surely banning things contributes to this?
Click to expand...

He's not being censored. Twitter is a private company and can set their T&Cs as they see fit. It's no different to an offensive loud-mouthed drunk being asked to leave a pub.

Plus, he's still POTUS and very rich. He has more access to the world's media than the rest of us put together.
 
Yeah fair point. I guess my concern was more about why various media outlets take Twitter as some kind of gospel to work from. They could just ignore the cesspit and do some proper journalism!
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
Yeah fair point. I guess my concern was more about why various media outlets take Twitter as some kind of gospel to work from. They could just ignore the cesspit and do some proper journalism!
Click to expand...

Because what is posted on Twitter isn't being filtered via press conference floozeys and hacks, it is a direct line into the presidents thinking (or lack of it)

And you don't really need to do proper journalism regarding the White House under Trumps rule because every White House staffer and their dog is running to the press saying "You'll never guess what happened / Trump said today", that is after all how the Ukraine call came to light...
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
Yeah I see what your saying, but to my mind the best rebuttal to moronic racism is through argument and reason, not censorship. Otherwise they become martyrs (in their own eyes and in the eyes of their followers). I really do think part of our problem is the lack of critical thought, and surely banning things contributes to this?
Click to expand...
I disagree with this a bit. For all the racists I know, reason and argument will not work on them. Most don't even believe they are being racist.

There is a lack of critical thought because we haven't had to for awhile. The media would do that. They would do the thinking and people would follow. Now with Trump and other right-wing douches say the media lies so now people have to think for themselves. But many (read: all) of Trump's followers are dumb and can't think for themself.

For example: a weird, religious, right-wing "news" channel on Facebook called FlashPoint had a program where they went through all the "evidence" that the riot on the capitol was actually BLM and Antifa. This has been disproven so many times it is uncountable.

But, one of the evidences they had was an article by NPR that was time-stamped 9:33am and the title was something about how there was a riot at the capitol. These right wing crazy people looked at that and thought, "wow NPR knew there would be a riot before it happened....DEEP STATE!" (The deep state is a stupid conspiracy theory here where people think the federal government is conspiring against the will of the American people) BUT, in reality the article was posted before the riot and was about the rally that was happening before. Then a fucking riot happened so they re-wrote the article and changed the headline, which kept the original timestamp.

My point is this: Trump people aren't looking for reason and answers. They are looking for their own answers that fit in their fucked up world-view.
 
MichiganImp said:
I disagree with this a bit. For all the racists I know, reason and argument will not work on them. Most don't even believe they are being racist.

There is a lack of critical thought because we haven't had to for awhile. The media would do that. They would do the thinking and people would follow. Now with Trump and other right-wing douches say the media lies so now people have to think for themselves. But many (read: all) of Trump's followers are dumb and can't think for themself.

For example: a weird, religious, right-wing "news" channel on Facebook called FlashPoint had a program where they went through all the "evidence" that the riot on the capitol was actually BLM and Antifa. This has been disproven so many times it is uncountable.

But, one of the evidences they had was an article by NPR that was time-stamped 9:33am and the title was something about how there was a riot at the capitol. These right wing crazy people looked at that and thought, "wow NPR knew there would be a riot before it happened....DEEP STATE!" (The deep state is a stupid conspiracy theory here where people think the federal government is conspiring against the will of the American people) BUT, in reality the article was posted before the riot and was about the rally that was happening before. Then a fucking riot happened so they re-wrote the article and changed the headline, which kept the original timestamp.

My point is this: Trump people aren't looking for reason and answers. They are looking for their own answers that fit in their fucked up world-view.
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/members...ye-opening-journey-in-a-deeply-divided-nation

I haven't watched these - I tend to read news, rather than listen/watch it - but they sound interesting.
 
MichiganImp said:
I disagree with this a bit. For all the racists I know, reason and argument will not work on them. Most don't even believe they are being racist.

There is a lack of critical thought because we haven't had to for awhile. The media would do that. They would do the thinking and people would follow. Now with Trump and other right-wing douches say the media lies so now people have to think for themselves. But many (read: all) of Trump's followers are dumb and can't think for themself.

For example: a weird, religious, right-wing "news" channel on Facebook called FlashPoint had a program where they went through all the "evidence" that the riot on the capitol was actually BLM and Antifa. This has been disproven so many times it is uncountable.

But, one of the evidences they had was an article by NPR that was time-stamped 9:33am and the title was something about how there was a riot at the capitol. These right wing crazy people looked at that and thought, "wow NPR knew there would be a riot before it happened....DEEP STATE!" (The deep state is a stupid conspiracy theory here where people think the federal government is conspiring against the will of the American people) BUT, in reality the article was posted before the riot and was about the rally that was happening before. Then a fucking riot happened so they re-wrote the article and changed the headline, which kept the original timestamp.

My point is this: Trump people aren't looking for reason and answers. They are looking for their own answers that fit in their fucked up world-view.
Click to expand...

Interesting to get a view from the States, especially a swing state! Thank you. I’m perhaps naively thinking that these Qanon/anti vaxxer/conspiracy theory nut jobs are in a tiny minority, amplified by virtue of our obsession with social media. But maybe that’s not accurate at all.....
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
Yeah I see what your saying, but to my mind the best rebuttal to moronic racism is through argument and reason, not censorship. Otherwise they become martyrs (in their own eyes and in the eyes of their followers). I really do think part of our problem is the lack of critical thought, and surely banning things contributes to this?
Click to expand...

The problem is that you can't do right for doing wrong. We credit our (western) societies with freedom of speech, but we accept that freedom is limited eg holocaust denial is a crime in Germany, we have laws that prevent us from publicly expressing eg racist or homophobic views; we accept that loss of freedom because we believe in protecting a greater freedom ie freedom from discrimination. Trump's tactic is to repeat bullshit so often, that it becomes "fact" (and don't lets forget that "perception is fact"), and I actually think he starts to believe his own lies. This episode seems to be finally galvanising the social media platforms into taking some responsibility for the genie they have let out of the lamp, and authorities may also be doing something eg Mat Hancock (who I am normally no fan of) is suggesting that since the social media platforms are taking editorial decisions (to bar Trump), they should be subject to similar regulation as the press. We shouldn't forget, either that on occasion this Forum has taken action to bar people/comment in the interests of the Forum
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
Interesting to get a view from the States, especially a swing state! Thank you. I’m perhaps naively thinking that these Qanon/anti vaxxer/conspiracy theory nut jobs are in a tiny minority, amplified by virtue of our obsession with social media. But maybe that’s not accurate at all.....
Click to expand...

I think they are in a minority, but wouldn't say a tiny minority. If you have ever read "Amusing ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman he talks about how it is the medium itself (when he wrote - television) that produces a level of discourse that essentially makes us dumber. His argument is like the Hobbit, and Social Media the Lord of the Rings. The medium doesn't inevitably make us dumber, in fact used a certain way Social Media can create a society of increased connectivity, education, awareness etc. Just like TV can. The problem becomes when "infotainment" has the potential for massive profit, and all other uses are sacrificed at the capital altar.

So we get a whole world where people are watching cats play the piano, or slapping floppy dog ears on pictures they have taken of themselves. And weirdly there is massive profit for a few to help make these things possible. Harmless enough, but when the time and intellectual energy of so many is taken up in these pursuits you have a population that has the critical thinking ability of an agitated Chihuahua who salivates over bacon bits every day. Over time, news networks recognize this and politicians of a certain ilk understand that they can manipulate these people without breaking a sweat, thus grasping power and wealth, and creating a vicious cycle of government propped up by stupid people. People become accustomed to believing any old shite they are told. Once you remove morality from any consideration. (which was done a long tie ago), the rest is a walk in the park.

Can the tide be turned? Maybe, who knows. I will say that the minority who think this way seem to become greater in number the further you move away from places where people gather, and often have good jobs or access to quality education. Possibly because there is less time in the day for social media junk food, but that's just speculation on my part.
 
Good piece on ITV tonight on 'Storming of the Capitol', well worth a watch. All power to Biden's elbow when he inherits this shitstorm.
 
Full on chaos next week is almost a certainty.
Sad to say, but it really wouldn't be a surprise to see some nut job try and take Biden out.
 
plumbob said:
Full on chaos next week is almost a certainty.
Sad to say, but it really wouldn't be a surprise to see some nut job try and take Biden out.
Click to expand...

And the rest. I expect to see a lot of white fascist terrorism over the next few years.

But, in fact, if you actually look at FBI stats that's the norm in the USA over decades.

Not that you'd know it from Fox News.
 
I fully expect the next 5-10 years to see an increase in localized domestic terrorism in the US. Government buildings and officials may be primary targets, and sadly I think there will be more than one terrorist act on the scale of McVeigh or a mass shooting. I really, really, hope I am wrong. So many are brainwashed here and it is not possible to reason with them.
 
In a country where you can get nicked for crossing the road, it defies credulity that this rabble somehow ‘stormed’ the nations Capitol without any help from the Police or security services. That to me is the most disturbing aspect of all of this.
 
NottyImp said:
I think he'll be impeached, but conviction in the Senate requires some kind of super-majority, I think (75%?). There's enough craven Republicans such that I don't think that will happen.
Click to expand...

CNN mentioned 17 senators needed to back impeachment so that would imply 2/3rds of senate I think.
Quite a few Republican Senators have already declared backing for impeachment. If the political future is deemed non-Trumpian, more may well follow if only for the advancement of their own careers.

For the lower house vote today, guessing a simple majority is needed to carry the vote.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.