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Only in America...

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#21
Notty, You've got me, I put my hands up I don't have the answer, I've failed. Do you have a solution also an opinion on legitimacy of the violence and subsequent murder in the absence of me being able to offer up the silver bullet?
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#22
I don't like your hulloutpost-ness. When you leave the house I am going to stop and search you because of your hulloutpost-ness.

If you jog in your neighbourgood I may decide you are a burglar or rapist because of your hulloutpost-ness. If have a gun, I may then execute you because of your hulloutpost-ness.

Because of your hulloutpost-ness I may not employ you.

Because of your hulloutpost-ness your children will have poor educational outcomes.

Because of your hulloutpost-ness you will die at an earlier age in poverty.

There's an old saying: walk a mile in hulloutpost's shoes.
I don't follow the logic. I've condemned the killing of a black man at the hands of that police officer as inexcusable on any level and recognise the horrendous history of racism in the US and that makes me a right winger amongst other things? It strikes me that the only thing we may disagree on is the legitimacy of the violence and murder in response but I don't know where you actually stand on that so won't make assumptions about you. For the record I condemn the violent response and openly profess that I don't know what the solution could possibly be. For the avoidance of doubt do you condone the subsequent murders and violence and as the solution to the racism is admittedly beyond me what do you think could be done?
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
#23
"Sadly I do not profess to have any answers as to what the solution is but that doesn't mean that retaliatory violence and murder are excusable or answers in my opinion. "

Two people have been killed? Are you aware of how many black people are gunned down every month in America by police?

This isn't about the death of one black man at the hands of the police, that death was the match that lit the spark of the powder keg that the authorities have been stoking with powder for over 50 years.

The jogger who was shot after being followed by two white guys because he was suspected of burglary? The prosecutors had the very same video in February before it was released to the public and had decided:
A letter obtained by the New York Times indicates the prosecutor in Brunswick argued there was not probable cause to arrest the McMichaels because they were legally carrying firearms, had a right to pursue a burglary suspect and use deadly force to protect themselves.

As someone eloquently put it:
"Always remember, they didn't make arrests because they saw the tape; They made arrests because we saw the tape"

Look closely at this video, and try and guess which protestor, stood innocently with his hands up get's his mask pulled down and maced. Now look at the two people to his right and notice their skin colour..

Well talking to the authorities hasn't helped, peaceful protest hasn't helped, voting for a president of colour hasn't helped,

Kaepernick tried using his influence to draw attention to it and look what happened to him, vilified by the authorities, hung out to dry by the NFL and unable to ply his trade because no-one will give him a contract.

I guess they are all out of ideas, out of hope and completely out of patience with a regime which simply tolerates the regular elimination of their race by the very people who are sworn to protect them.

ffdc3abb586ba4d873a0fb04d29fec0d22182b70.jpeg
Soweto 1976, are these people stupid and idiots?
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#25
"Sadly I do not profess to have any answers as to what the solution is but that doesn't mean that retaliatory violence and murder are excusable or answers in my opinion. "

Two people have been killed? Are you aware of how many black people are gunned down every month in America by police?

This isn't about the death of one black man at the hands of the police, that death was the match that lit the spark of the powder keg that the authorities have been stoking with powder for over 50 years.

The jogger who was shot after being followed by two white guys because he was suspected of burglary? The prosecutors had the very same video in February before it was released to the public and had decided:
A letter obtained by the New York Times indicates the prosecutor in Brunswick argued there was not probable cause to arrest the McMichaels because they were legally carrying firearms, had a right to pursue a burglary suspect and use deadly force to protect themselves.

As someone eloquently put it:
"Always remember, they didn't make arrests because they saw the tape; They made arrests because we saw the tape"

Look closely at this video, and try and guess which protestor, stood innocently with his hands up get's his mask pulled down and maced. Now look at the two people to his right and notice their skin colour..

Well talking to the authorities hasn't helped, peaceful protest hasn't helped, voting for a president of colour hasn't helped,

Kaepernick tried using his influence to draw attention to it and look what happened to him, vilified by the authorities, hung out to dry by the NFL and unable to ply his trade because no-one will give him a contract.

I guess they are all out of ideas, out of hope and completely out of patience with a regime which simply tolerates the regular elimination of their race by the very people who are sworn to protect them.

View attachment 39831
Soweto 1976, are these people stupid and idiots?
I don't follow your point. I fully accept the history of racism, disproportionate numbers of deaths and historic racism. It is vile, I condemn it full stop, I don't dispute any part of that whatsoever. I also condemn the random extreme violence in response.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
#26
I don't follow your point. I fully accept the history of racism, disproportionate numbers of deaths and historic racism. It is vile, I condemn it full stop, I don't dispute any part of that whatsoever. I also condemn the random extreme violence in response.
So, I'll ask you for the third time. What should black people in the US do about being executed by white cops?

Unless you're honest enough to answer that question, shut the fuck up.
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
#27
I don't follow your point. I fully accept the history of racism, disproportionate numbers of deaths and historic racism. It is vile, I condemn it full stop, I don't dispute any part of that whatsoever. I also condemn the random extreme violence in response.
Then I suspect you don't understand what it really means to be oppressed, denied opportunity and killed in proportionally greater numbers than any other race in the country and *nothing* ever gets done about it and *nothing* changes...

Edited it add:
Have a read what Kareem Abdul-Jabar says about it...
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/sto...hat-youre-seeing-is-people-pushed-to-the-edge
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#28
So, I'll ask you for the third time. What should black people in the US do about being executed by white cops?

Unless you're honest enough to answer that question, shut the fuck up.
I still really honestly don't know the answer, is my answer. Tell you what though I suspect it is very complex which is possibly evidenced by the abject failure of generations of Americans to come up with it. As it is such a complex issue perhaps I was unfair to ask you what you think the solution is. I do clearly reject violence and murder in retaliation as being unacceptable though so as a less complex issue and as I am on the record on that point do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses to the problem?
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
#29
I still really honestly don't know the answer, is my answer. Tell you what though I suspect it is very complex which is possibly evidenced by the abject failure of generations of Americans to come up with it. As it is such a complex issue perhaps I was unfair to ask you what you think the solution is. I do clearly reject violence and murder in retaliation as being unacceptable though so as a less complex issue and as I am on the record on that point do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses to the problem?
It's not a complex issue at all. The abject failure of generations of Americans to solve the problem is a lack of will by the institutions of the United States to tackle their institutionalised racism and to ensure that young black Americans are not allowed to take their place in the upper echelons of society to enact real change.

The boot is on their throat, and many, many Americans in positions of authority like it just fine, just the way it is.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#30
Then I suspect you don't understand what it really means to be oppressed, denied opportunity and killed in proportionally greater numbers than any other race in the country and *nothing* ever gets done about it and *nothing* changes...

Edited it add:
Have a read what Kareem Abdul-Jabar says about it...
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/sto...hat-youre-seeing-is-people-pushed-to-the-edge
I'm not disagreeing on any level, I accept totally that nothing changes but I still don't accept or excuse violence and murder in response is acceptable or provides a solution. If it did it would have already have done so after Rodney King and the other numerous historic examples. Violence would appear to beget violence.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
#31
I still really honestly don't know the answer, is my answer. Tell you what though I suspect it is very complex which is possibly evidenced by the abject failure of generations of Americans to come up with it. As it is such a complex issue perhaps I was unfair to ask you what you think the solution is. I do clearly reject violence and murder in retaliation as being unacceptable though so as a less complex issue and as I am on the record on that point do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses to the problem?
It's not "complex" at all. All you do is treat people equally regardless of skin colour. What don't you understand about that?
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#32
It's not a complex issue at all. The abject failure of generations of Americans to solve the problem is a lack of will by the institutions of the United States to tackle their institutionalised racism and to ensure that young black Americans are not allowed to take their place in the upper echelons of society to enact real change.

The boot is on their throat, and many, many Americans in positions of authority like it just fine, just the way it is.
The problem is straight forward the solution is complex.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
#33
I'm not disagreeing on any level, I accept totally that nothing changes but I still don't accept or excuse violence and murder in response is acceptable or provides a solution. If it did it would have already have done so after Rodney King and the other numerous historic examples. Violence would appear to beget violence.
So, you're a essentially a pure pacifist? If I come for you and your family you defend yourself or them because 'violence begets violence' ? I don't believe you.
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
#35
I'm not disagreeing on any level, I accept totally that nothing changes but I still don't accept or excuse violence and murder in response is acceptable or provides a solution. If it did it would have already have done so after Rodney King and the other numerous historic examples. Violence would appear to beget violence.
These people aren't interested in solutions, nothing they try works. What else is left but resistance? Resist or die. That's the level of desperation they are at.
As Kareem says: "What I want to see is not a rush to judgment, but a rush to justice. "
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#37
It's not "complex" at all. All you do is treat people equally regardless of skin colour. What don't you understand about that?
I do understand that, the problem is how do you change generations of institutionalised racism to come up with the solution; the complex bit?
Do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses to the problem?
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
#38
These people aren't interested in solutions, nothing they try works. What else is left but resistance? Resist or die. That's the level of desperation they are at.
As Kareem says: "What I want to see is not a rush to judgment, but a rush to justice. "
Does that make violence against other random people just? Personally I strongly believe that not to be the case.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
#39
I do understand that, the problem is how do you change generations of institutionalised racism to come up with the solution; the complex bit?
Do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses
I do understand that, the problem is how do you change generations of institutionalised racism to come up with the solution; the complex bit?
Do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses to the problem?
I do understand that, the problem is how do you change generations of institutionalised racism to come up with the solution; the complex bit?
Do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses to the problem?
Violence in the cause of self defence is always justified.

Now, tell me what you think black people should do in the US to oppose being executed by racist white cops you mealy-mouthed racist apllogist?
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
#40
I do understand that, the problem is how do you change generations of institutionalised racism to come up with the solution; the complex bit?
Do you believe that violence and murder are acceptable responses to the problem?
If it's kill or be killed then why not? The alternative is they try and enact change from within a society that refuses to contemplate it and has refused since the last 70 years or so and watch them and their friends be gunned down in ever increasing numbers while the authorities shield the perpetrators from any repercussions.

You know the case of the lady dog walker in central park who let her dog off the lead against the rules? She was politely asked to put it back on by a person of colour who was bird watching, the lady dog walker quickly threatened to phone 911 and report that "an African American is threatening me and my dog"

Now I bring this up because there are black people in America who basically say that she was trying to get this guy killed. That's how bad it is, when a white person phones 911 and reports being threatened by a black man, the black man dies. No arrest, no conviction, just straight up kill him. That is the state of how many coloured people feel about being coloured in the USA, a simple act of asking a white lady to put her dog on the lead, who responds by phoning 911 will get him killed.

A senator (a senator for christ sake!) said this in response:
In response to what happened, New York State Sen. Brian Benjamin introduced a bill that would add falsely reporting an incident to the list of hate crime eligible offenses.
"I worry that if she had not been filmed this woman may have been given the benefit of the doubt, and that this man could have face serious, perhaps life threatening consequences if the police had arrived," Benjamin said in a press release.


"In an insane world, it was the only logical choice"