Only in America... | Page 11 | Vital Football

Only in America...

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
This is what sub-conscious racism looks like, I would like to put money on the fact that all 3 of those people did not consciously act in a racist manner but all 3 exposed their assumptions and prejudices with their individual acts.
Precisely. The unconscious train of thought is: this person is black; black people are not barristers; therefore, they must be a defendant.

Of course, it could be even worse than that! You could easily insert "black people are criminals" in there for some people, I'm sure.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
I would dare say that large swathes of all sectors of society have unconscious bias; not just white people. To suggest otherwise is arguably worse, basically expressing a conscious bias against white people.

Depending on upbringing and life experience, for many people they will have unconscious bias, whether that be against Tories, police, posh people, rich people, privately educated privileged people, estate agents, religious people etc. take your choice of antipathy.

Am I wrong? Can anybody say in all honesty that they don't somewhere hold negative stereotypes against some group or other. I know I would be a hypocrite if I said I didn't.

Is it more acceptable to have unconscious bias against some groups than others? I don't think so if that negativity is wilfully acted upon; it's equally as bad.

To have unconscious bias is to be human. To act maliciously, to deliberately treat somebody different based upon that is wrong and unacceptable. If the people who encountered the barrister did so then they should be ashamed. If they acted unconsciously then they were probably embarrassed when they found out the truth and should not be vilified.

It's probably not helpful to just keep highlighting it as a one way street that only affects one group as that can potentially reach a point where it breeds resentment or loses support for what really ought to be the bigger picture:

It's human nature that people may hold biased views, it's unacceptable to purposely act on those. Treat everyone fairly and equally when you encounter them.
 

plumbob

Vital Football Hero
Surprised nobody has mentioned the debate last night. Debate-of-the-day highlights were cracking. The choice for leader of the free world, between 2 old men acting like kids in a playground squabble. I'd expect more, but seems they are just like our lot baying and baaaaing at each other. Frightening for the future.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
Surprised nobody has mentioned the debate last night. Debate-of-the-day highlights were cracking. The choice for leader of the free world, between 2 old men acting like kids in a playground squabble. I'd expect more, but seems they are just like our lot baying and baaaaing at each other. Frightening for the future.
Indeed appositely summed up plumbob, with Biden previously saying,
'If we were in high school, I’d take him (Trump) behind the gym and beat the hell out of him.'
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
Surprised nobody has mentioned the debate last night. Debate-of-the-day highlights were cracking. The choice for leader of the free world, between 2 old men acting like kids in a playground squabble. I'd expect more, but seems they are just like our lot baying and baaaaing at each other. Frightening for the future.
Blame the system that allows it to happen. Democracy is broken.
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
I would dare say that large swathes of all sectors of society have unconscious bias; not just white people. To suggest otherwise is arguably worse, basically expressing a conscious bias against white people.

Depending on upbringing and life experience, for many people they will have unconscious bias, whether that be against Tories, police, posh people, rich people, privately educated privileged people, estate agents, religious people etc. take your choice of antipathy.

Am I wrong? Can anybody say in all honesty that they don't somewhere hold negative stereotypes against some group or other. I know I would be a hypocrite if I said I didn't.

Is it more acceptable to have unconscious bias against some groups than others? I don't think so if that negativity is wilfully acted upon; it's equally as bad.

To have unconscious bias is to be human. To act maliciously, to deliberately treat somebody different based upon that is wrong and unacceptable. If the people who encountered the barrister did so then they should be ashamed. If they acted unconsciously then they were probably embarrassed when they found out the truth and should not be vilified.

It's probably not helpful to just keep highlighting it as a one way street that only affects one group as that can potentially reach a point where it breeds resentment or loses support for what really ought to be the bigger picture:

It's human nature that people may hold biased views, it's unacceptable to purposely act on those. Treat everyone fairly and equally when you encounter them.
But those 3 people all working in close proximity to each other had the same bias. This is revealing is it not?
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
Surprised nobody has mentioned the debate last night. Debate-of-the-day highlights were cracking. The choice for leader of the free world, between 2 old men acting like kids in a playground squabble. I'd expect more, but seems they are just like our lot baying and baaaaing at each other. Frightening for the future.
Well Biden didn't screw it up, and right now that's all he really needs to do, hold steady and just let DJT self destruct, nothing he says will alter how his base votes, but right now that simply won't be enough to get him re-elected and he's incapable of generating talking points right now that can appeal to anyone else. All the polls show Biden as streets ahead (much, much further ahead than they polled Clinton in 2016)

So really the debate is really only of any interest if DJT can trounce Biden and regain some votes from the undecided and that definitely wasn't the case last night.
 

sedgleyimp

Vital Football Hero
If anyone wants to get a sense of last nights debacle have a look at Baddiel and Newman's History Today which I just could not get out of my head whilst watching two old white blokes bicker for an hour and a half

(would paste it but not sure copyright is a problem on here)
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
But those 3 people all working in close proximity to each other had the same bias. This is revealing is it not?
As I've said I would be surprised if anyone (bar The Dali Lama) didn't have unconscious bias. Many people will share the same bias so it's not surprising or telling to me. It's whether people are badly treated with malice (not in this case) or are disadvantaged (again not in this case as she has made it as a barrister) so what is the story here. It just confirms what we already know - people have unconscious bias.

The three individuals just embarrassed themselves and there was no harm done to the barrister. If everybody tried to make mileage every time they were assumed to be a geek, stupid, slovenly, unreliable and so on just because of the way they appeared then you wouldn't have enough news print or TV news time to report every story.

I can easily envisage a situation whereby a 20 stone white bloke with a number 1 haircut, wearing a union Jack t shirt and arms tattooed with the flag of St George being mistaken as a defendant by the same 3 people when he could actually be a victim in a fraud case. Would that be unconscious bias (yes) would it garner any attention from MSN (no).

At some point in our lives we are all 'victims' of unconscious bias and we are all guilty of it. It's not newsworthy unless somebody has an over sensitive identity politics agenda to push.
 
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plumbob

Vital Football Hero
If anyone wants to get a sense of last nights debacle have a look at Baddiel and Newman's History Today which I just could not get out of my head whilst watching two old white blokes bicker for an hour and a half

(would paste it but not sure copyright is a problem on here)
That's you that is
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
Is Notty still a narcissist (2 degrees with phd pending and you'd better know it) and failed gas lighter? :grinning:

Anytime you want to debate I'm here for you Notty. I may even fulfil my calling as a useful idiot to provide you with a cathartic release for all your anger and hatred.
 

cherryexile

Vital Squad Member
Just to play Devil's Advocate a little. Do you think the issue with the misidentification of the Barrister had as much to with the fact that she was only 25, or that she was a woman, as much as the colour of her skin?

Either way, it was notable that 'The Recorder' didn't actually apologise for her (apparently/allegedly) dismissive appraisal of her. Perhaps we should be just as alarmed, as a society, at how rude we are to each other.