Omicron Covid | Vital Football

Omicron Covid

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
New report suggests early signs indicate 2 jabs does not protect against Omicron. A booster on top might give 75 % protection which is not great. So does that mean a new vaccine is needed and a wait until March earliest ?
 
Heard today two jabs gives near to zero protection against Omicron. So why is it ok proving two jabs to get into above 10,000 event. Only a booster gives 75% protection so 1 in 4 of the 10, 000 plus could catch it.
 
New report suggests early signs indicate 2 jabs does not protect against Omicron. A booster on top might give 75 % protection which is not great. So does that mean a new vaccine is needed and a wait until March earliest ?

Not sure where the 'no protection' comes from, but it's certainly lowered from the results of the studies already done, but not yet peer-reviewed. Some protection is better than none; then two deaths we've had from Omicron so far were both unvaccinated people; early clinical observations being made suggest if you are vaccinated you are unlikely to end up in intensive care. But there is still much we don't know - this is all early on in this new wave, what we do know is that it is far more transmissible and generally that's by way of airborne - so wear those masks, gel your hands regularly and if you do have any underlying health conditions think carefully and that appropriate measures to protect yourself as best you can.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...omicron-oxford-study/articleshow/88273893.cms
 
Not sure where the 'no protection' comes from, but it's certainly lowered from the results of the studies already done, but not yet peer-reviewed. Some protection is better than none; then two deaths we've had from Omicron so far were both unvaccinated people; early clinical observations being made suggest if you are vaccinated you are unlikely to end up in intensive care. But there is still much we don't know - this is all early on in this new wave, what we do know is that it is far more transmissible and generally that's by way of airborne - so wear those masks, gel your hands regularly and if you do have any underlying health conditions think carefully and that appropriate measures to protect yourself as best you can.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...omicron-oxford-study/articleshow/88273893.cms

My point was proving you've had two jabs on entry to 10,000 capacity venue doesn't really say much. It's the booster which is the game changer.
 
My point was proving you've had two jabs on entry to 10,000 capacity venue doesn't really say much. It's the booster which is the game changer.

It is; which is why the passport will soon change to 3 shots to be achieved.

On a more optimistic note, the new anti-virals which have been shown to be highly effective against all strains - including Omicron, could greatly limit the deaths of the vulnerable and as supplies become more readily available, perhaps for all who contract the disease; that said, it's limited in supply and it's a major logistical challenge to get it to those that need it when supply is so limited.

It should be noted that some early studies that are predicting a further 75,000 deaths by April if omicron proves to be as deadly doesn't take into account the effect of being triple vaccinated and having access to the anti-virals - the most vulnerable will once again be those who are unvaccinated - one obvious conundrum for the unvaccinated is that some researchers in the US seem to think the anti-virals are far more likely to have long term health indicators than Vaccines do by a factor of 10 (I've only been told about this pre-press study and do not know what this is based on).

So, the scenario for the unvaccinated is not looking good at all.

There was a report in the Guardian yesterday written anonymously by a health chief of a region that mentions that medical staff have lost patience and are fed up with the unvaccinated cramming the beds - it went no further but some professors and heads of depts think some are being treated selectively out of anger, if that proves to be true then it's the biggest indicator yet that Doctors and medics generally have had enough.
 
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Some encouraging news just updated by the BBC that is coming from South Africa:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59646151

"South African scientists say they have yet to see any indication that the Omicron variant is as severe as previous waves in the country.

One of the country’s leading Covid-19 experts, Prof Salim Karim, pointed to hospital data from the area where Omicron was first detected.

He said that in comparison with previous waves of the pandemic, far fewer patients needed oxygen or admission to intensive care.

"In the current wave right now, we have only one out of four cases that is severe - a marked difference. And this is not merely an impact of vaccines, because this reduction in severity goes across all ages, including ages we didn't vaccinate."
A similar pattern is now being detected in mortality figures.

Prof Marta Nunes, a vaccine expert at Wits University, also said the mortality rate was lower than in previous waves.

However, scientists and doctors agree they need more data before they can be sure of Omicron’s impact. And it is not yet clear how Omicron will affect other countries.

The variant is spreading remarkably fast. And comparisons with previous waves are only helpful up to a point.
 

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Not sure where the 'no protection' comes from, but it's certainly lowered from the results of the studies already done, but not yet peer-reviewed. Some protection is better than none; then two deaths we've had from Omicron so far were both unvaccinated people; early clinical observations being made suggest if you are vaccinated you are unlikely to end up in intensive care. But there is still much we don't know - this is all early on in this new wave, what we do know is that it is far more transmissible and generally that's by way of airborne - so wear those masks, gel your hands regularly and if you do have any underlying health conditions think carefully and that appropriate measures to protect yourself as best you can.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...omicron-oxford-study/articleshow/88273893.cms
The only report that I've heard of the original vaccine offering 'no protection' was an interview that a government minister (I think it was either Raab or Javid) did with the BBC in the last few days. But then again I think that was just a very unfortunate use of language whilst trying to get the message across that people should get the booster jab. Which is frustrating to see senior politicians make critical mistakes like that at such an important time.
 
The only report that I've heard of the original vaccine offering 'no protection' was an interview that a government minister (I think it was either Raab or Javid) did with the BBC in the last few days. But then again I think that was just a very unfortunate use of language whilst trying to get the message across that people should get the booster jab. Which is frustrating to see senior politicians make critical mistakes like that at such an important time.

More evidence that the fcukwits who are unvaccinated are testing our Doctors patience to the limit.

I know of one unit where unbelievably the staff has been found to literally almost not bother to treat the unvaccinated; the shit will hit the fan no doubt as the bleeding heart brigade are now honing in on what some are calling double standards of care - but most Doctors are sick of them and the harm they're continuing to cause to the NHS and the doctors and medics lives. We now live in very dangerous times.

Never heard a Doctor ever say 'they deserve to die' but have now.

Everyone is exasperated.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...missions-increase-london-omicron-b971864.html

Will Ricketts, a consultant chest physician at the Royal London hospital, tweeted: “First ward round back on the #Covid19 ward today. Every patient I saw was unvaccinated, so depressing because it just feels so avoidable.”
 
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Why three shots is better than two:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59639973

Omicron: Why do boosters work if two doses struggle?
_116435605_t6hci2si_400x400.jpg
James Gallagher
Health and science correspondent
@JamesTGallagheron Twitter
Published
1 day ago


The heavily mutated Omicron variant has led to a serious dent in the ability of vaccines to protect us from catching the Covid virus.
Two doses of some vaccines offer almost no protection from an Omicron infection, although they should still greatly reduce the risk of becoming so ill you need hospital care.
The vaccines were all developed to fight the first form of the virus that emerged two years ago.
So can a third or "booster" dose of those original vaccines make the difference or has Omicron already outwitted the protection they can give?
Fortunately for us - while the contents of the syringe may be identical, a booster is not just more of the same for the immune system.
The protection you're left with after the third dose is bigger, broader and more memorable than you had before.

Covid school
Fighting coronavirus is something your immune system has to learn.
One option is to figure it out on the job when you encounter the virus for real. However, there is a risk of getting it wrong and ending up seriously ill.
Vaccines are more like a school - a safer environment to further your immune system's Covid education.
The first dose is the primary school education that nails the fundamentals.
Your second and third doses are comparable to sending your immune system to secondary school and then university to dramatically deepen its understanding. It's not just repeating primary school over and over.
"The immune system is left with a richer knowledge and understanding of the virus," said Prof Jonathan Ball, a virologist from the University of Nottingham.
He said for all the talk of the dastardly tricks of Omicron, a highly-trained immune system is "an incredibly difficult and hostile environment" for the virus and its variants.

A booster is like a university education for the immune system
Antibodies are a major beneficiary of this education.
These are the sticky proteins that attach themselves to the outside of the coronavirus. Neutralising antibodies can gum up the virus so it can't invade your cells. Others sit there as the biological equivalent of a flashing neon sign spelling out "kill this virus".

A flurry of laboratory studies and real world data showed the neutralising antibodies you have after two doses of a Covid vaccine were far less effective against Omicron.
Prof Danny Altmann, an immunologist from Imperial College London, said you were left with "absolutely zilch" and were a "sitting duck for infection".
So back to school.
Every dose of the vaccine triggers another round of antibody evolution within the immune system. It seeks out better antibodies that attach themselves more firmly to the virus. It's a process called affinity maturation.
"Your antibodies are a better fit as time goes on, they are getting fancier and more sophisticated," said Prof Altmann.
If the antibodies are able to bind more tightly to the coronavirus then it will be harder for Omicron's mutations to help it wriggle free. And while the new variant is heavily mutated, it is still the same fundamental virus and has parts that have not changed at all.
Further rounds of vaccination also lead to the immune system broadening its antibody repertoire as it finds new ways of attacking the virus.
Numbers game
It's not just about the quality of antibodies, the quantity goes up with boosting too.
Prof Charles Bangham, from Imperial, said: "You get more of them, the concentration in the blood increases and we don't know how long this is going to last, but the more times you're vaccinated the longer-lasting the immune memory is."
The impact of all this is clear in the same studies that showed two doses were weaker against Omicron. The protection against getting any Covid symptoms shot up to around 75% after the booster.
Elsewhere in the immune system, boosting is giving our bodies the upper hand against future variants too.
B-cells are the part of the body that mass produce antibodies. Some mature to produce those super-sticky, highly refined antibodies after boosting. Others can spot coronavirus, but remain half-baked and flexible.
"These can go off in different directions and when they proliferate they start to go after the new variant," said Prof Ball.
And then there's T-cells, which again become more plentiful and better at attacking Covid viruses in response to boosting.
T-cells use a different trick to spot the virus and patrol our body looking for any sign of cells being infected with Covid. T-cells recognise parts of the coronavirus that the virus finds harder to mutate.
So while Omicron is squirming away from our immune system, each vaccine dose and indeed each infection is giving our body's defences more tools to hunt it down.
All this bodes well for vaccines protecting us from becoming seriously ill.
"Immunity against a virus is almost never absolute - you can almost always get re-infected and what you want to do is get re-infection so trivial you don't know you've got it or it's very mild," said Prof Bangham.
 
I felt unwell yesterday afternoon. Shivering, feverish, muscle aches, heavy eyed. I thought here we go, here it is. A couple of hours later I was fine and I'm normal now. I wonder if my body was fighting a covid attack with my booster ?
 
Unvaccinated or even double shotters are vulnerable now. 78,000 confirmed tests today, infections are thought to be nearer 100,000. These can't all be Unvaccinated.
 
I see Boris bottled it by taking no action even though we are seeing 90,000 infections per day. He's scared of the backlash mostly from his own party. Playing party politics with people's lives.
 
I see Boris bottled it by taking no action even though we are seeing 90,000 infections per day. He's scared of the backlash mostly from his own party. Playing party politics with people's lives.


What is the hospitalization rate increase vs ICU rate increase? Granted it is a 2 week lag but it is indicative.
 
I see Boris bottled it by taking no action even though we are seeing 90,000 infections per day. He's scared of the backlash mostly from his own party. Playing party politics with people's lives.
It's similar to last year when the case numbers were outrageous but he didn't want to annoy the back benchers by doing the right thing and putting in restrictions in the run up to Christmas. In the end we ended up paying for it by having a very long lock down to start the new year. He's not a man who will make difficult proactive decisions to steer public/MP opinion.
 
In the latest of the covid party saga of MPs and government officials not adhering to the rules that they set, we had the 2nd in command of the country stepping up to answer questions on it. Part of his defence was that the PM is "in the rare position of working in the same place as he lives”. Regardless of your opinion of this government, the conservatives, covid rules or these "parties", it is ever so depressing to see that this is the quality of MPs that the UK elects. A man who 2 years into a pandemic where he has been encouraging people to work from home as often as possible thinks that it is rare to do so.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-19...ictured-with-wine-and-cheese-in-2020-lockdown
 
The figures we have is just over 100 in hospital with Omicron which suggests so far its mild. 12 deaths recorded from it but how accurate these figures are , who knows. I can only be cautious from what Ex reported is going on in hospitals and the pressure already there from Delta being added to.
 
The figures we have is just over 100 in hospital with Omicron which suggests so far its mild. 12 deaths recorded from it but how accurate these figures are , who knows. I can only be cautious from what Ex reported is going on in hospitals and the pressure already there from Delta being added to.

so far deaths are low here, but we can't read anything yet into that, most deaths occur around 28-36 days after hospitalisation so until that time period has passed, I'd reserve judgement and withhold any conclusions about it's severity or capacity to get more severe.