Club/player Activity Elsewhere | Page 3 | Vital Football

Club/player Activity Elsewhere

So in 2018, Bournemouth paid £11m for Brooks who was 21 at the time. We all know what we did that summer......sweet FA. The bit I don't think people get is that to get the best youngsters you have to over pay. He should have been on our radar when he left Sheff Utd and, as a much bigger club, our offer should have been £15-17m with better wages. In a summer when we spent nothing, we could have knocked Eddie Howe out of the running. That is what big clubs do. I remember screaming that if we couldn't find players for the first team then go and buy a couple of young homegrown to freshen up the squad.

We are the 10th biggest club in Europe and as I keep saying our transfer strategy is a joke. We end up competing with clubs half our size and get "out-sold" by their vision to the players over ours. To me, that comes down to our chairman setting things up with a small club mentality. We need to remove the 27 year old dross that drag us down and create space for these kids to get involved. Even Lampard gets that as guys like Willian, Pedro etc have had their playing time reduced and shown the door.
Good post mutters . I just don’t get it that we don’t have , or won’t pick , 18 year old reserves , as they used to be called .
 
So in 2018, Bournemouth paid £11m for Brooks who was 21 at the time. We all know what we did that summer......sweet FA. The bit I don't think people get is that to get the best youngsters you have to over pay. He should have been on our radar when he left Sheff Utd and, as a much bigger club, our offer should have been £15-17m with better wages. In a summer when we spent nothing, we could have knocked Eddie Howe out of the running. That is what big clubs do. I remember screaming that if we couldn't find players for the first team then go and buy a couple of young homegrown to freshen up the squad.

We are the 10th biggest club in Europe and as I keep saying our transfer strategy is a joke. We end up competing with clubs half our size and get "out-sold" by their vision to the players over ours. To me, that comes down to our chairman setting things up with a small club mentality. We need to remove the 27 year old dross that drag us down and create space for these kids to get involved. Even Lampard gets that as guys like Willian, Pedro etc have had their playing time reduced and shown the door.

Mutts,

there isn't a single youngster across any of the recognised leagues that the databases don't track and that we don't subscribe to; they are discussed extensively, scouting plans made, relationships forged between the club and agents..

Many have to be discounted because of the type of development contract they've signed as we can't go near them until they are 16/17 and even then for whatever reason you can't get them/their family to relocate without breaking a few rules - and I'm afraid we tend to try and follow most if not ALL the academy rules (which are extensive) - look up the FA development contracts. We have to stick to the two-hour travel rule until they hit 16, at which point it's all about how far do you go and how much money do you commit?

many many if not the majority of these early deals go wrong, around 10% work out and often all you're doing is creating lower league fodder and hopefully a re-sale value; it's what happens with most academy youngsters. Only around 4% of all academy youngsters or lower, league youngsters make a PL appearance, less than 1.5% actually establish themselves in their 'home' club.
 
Mutts,

there isn't a single youngster across any of the recognised leagues that the databases don't track and that we don't subscribe to; they are discussed extensively, scouting plans made, relationships forged between the club and agents..

Many have to be discounted because of the type of development contract they've signed as we can't go near them until they are 16/17 and even then for whatever reason you can't get them/their family to relocate without breaking a few rules - and I'm afraid we tend to try and follow most if not ALL the academy rules (which are extensive) - look up the FA development contracts. We have to stick to the two-hour travel rule until they hit 16, at which point it's all about how far do you go and how much money do you commit?

many many if not the majority of these early deals go wrong, around 10% work out and often all you're doing is creating lower league fodder and hopefully a re-sale value; it's what happens with most academy youngsters. Only around 4% of all academy youngsters or lower, league youngsters make a PL appearance, less than 1.5% actually establish themselves in their 'home' club.
I have pondered this before and it's worth a revisit.
From a clubs point of view , what is considered a success from an academy player ?
 
I have pondered this before and it's worth a revisit.
From a clubs point of view , what is considered a success from an academy player ?

Getting a return on your investment; depending on the period that the youngster is with you and what level he attains - most leave when their final apprentice contract ends with no ROI, they then get their first year pro contract and if good enough renewed for another two or three (or released) then the loans/route to through the dev squad etc is plotted and either they're given a full pro contract (at around #1-3k a week or so), and then they break through or are sold, players like amos, Josh, CCV etc would be current topical examples: probably total financial return would be in the region of £8-10 mill gross (with add ons), our academy costs us around £5 mill in fixed overheads, but the payoffs are when you get a kid into the PL side - and if he stays permanently you have had it off, if you get a good few years then get £8-15 mill for him, that's a big return.
 
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Mutts,

there isn't a single youngster across any of the recognised leagues that the databases don't track and that we don't subscribe to; they are discussed extensively, scouting plans made, relationships forged between the club and agents..

Many have to be discounted because of the type of development contract they've signed as we can't go near them until they are 16/17 and even then for whatever reason you can't get them/their family to relocate without breaking a few rules - and I'm afraid we tend to try and follow most if not ALL the academy rules (which are extensive) - look up the FA development contracts. We have to stick to the two-hour travel rule until they hit 16, at which point it's all about how far do you go and how much money do you commit?

many many if not the majority of these early deals go wrong, around 10% work out and often all you're doing is creating lower league fodder and hopefully a re-sale value; it's what happens with most academy youngsters. Only around 4% of all academy youngsters or lower, league youngsters make a PL appearance, less than 1.5% actually establish themselves in their 'home' club.

When you think of the ages we bought Walker, Rose, Davies, Eriksen, Dier, Dele etc. We knew at that time that whilst it's nice to unearth a Kane, Mason or Winks from Edmonton or Enfield, you just simply have to keep targeting that 17-22 age range from elsewhere and then nurture the hell out of them.

My feeling is that whilst we do some, we just don't do enough if it. We are too risk averse in this area and don't always buy the lottery ticket anymore. Everything you say above is clearly correct but also applies to every other club. Now as the 10th biggest club in Europe, who should be favourites to land them? Are we even in the race? Do we do a good enough job of selling the vision of THFC?

My other fear is that because of Lamela, Sanchez, Ndombele etc it might even make the club even more risk averse. That's why I say let's be a Dortmund for a while and send the message to every youngster that Spurs give these talented kids a chance. We create space for them. That's all.
 
When you think of the ages we bought Walker, Rose, Davies, Eriksen, Dier, Dele etc. We knew at that time that whilst it's nice to unearth a Kane, Mason or Winks from Edmonton or Enfield, you just simply have to keep targeting that 17-22 age range from elsewhere and then nurture the hell out of them.

My feeling is that whilst we do some, we just don't do enough if it. We are too risk averse in this area and don't always buy the lottery ticket anymore. Everything you say above is clearly correct but also applies to every other club. Now as the 10th biggest club in Europe, who should be favourites to land them? Are we even in the race? Do we do a good enough job of selling the vision of THFC?

My other fear is that because of Lamela, Sanchez, Ndombele etc it might even make the club even more risk averse. That's why I say let's be a Dortmund for a while and send the message to every youngster that Spurs give these talented kids a chance. We create space for them. That's all.

The market for highly thought after 17-22 year olds has been red hot, nay untouchable for the last few years.

The deals that are being done there, are utterly mental in terms of cash.

We've taken a punt on Clarke for £10 mill - a lad who could be a £100 mill player in a couple of years time or a flop...I've seen his scouting report, it's clear why we've taken a punt.

When you have had limited funds for transfers anyway, spending more of it on men who may or may not make it, is tough to argue for internally - everyone quotes the ones that work, but they don't mention the hundreds that don't and you have to give them away.
 
The market for highly thought after 17-22 year olds has been red hot, nay untouchable for the last few years.

The deals that are being done there, are utterly mental in terms of cash.

We've taken a punt on Clarke for £10 mill - a lad who could be a £100 mill player in a couple of years time or a flop...I've seen his scouting report, it's clear why we've taken a punt.

When you have had limited funds for transfers anyway, spending more of it on men who may or may not make it, is tough to argue for internally - everyone quotes the ones that work, but they don't mention the hundreds that don't and you have to give them away.
Interesting comment on Clarke...did he play any football at all last season?
 
The market for highly thought after 17-22 year olds has been red hot, nay untouchable for the last few years.

The deals that are being done there, are utterly mental in terms of cash.

We've taken a punt on Clarke for £10 mill - a lad who could be a £100 mill player in a couple of years time or a flop...I've seen his scouting report, it's clear why we've taken a punt.

When you have had limited funds for transfers anyway, spending more of it on men who may or may not make it, is tough to argue for internally - everyone quotes the ones that work, but they don't mention the hundreds that don't and you have to give them away.

Your last paragraph is my point. The fear of spending on young unknown players who won't make it but the comfort zone of spending that very same money on Aurier, Moura, Sissoko. 25-27 year olds who cost £20-30m each and drive some serious mediocrity into the squad.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing the Jose moulded Sessegnon. For me, he is a Spurs signing in the transfer strategy I would like us to follow. I would have preferred it if we would have overpaid for him at 16/17 (if that was an option) like some fans think we have with Clarke. I'm OK with that as well.

So do you reckon Clarke can stay and get involved this season?
 
Interesting comment on Clarke...did he play any football at all last season?

Very little; as many kids do he's going through his last growth spurt and can lose his touch/co-ordination and it could be another year before he grows into his body and rediscovers his form - or he could lose it mentally and never rebound - but believe me, on his day he is an incredible talent and reminds me strongly of a young James Milner.
 
Your last paragraph is my point. The fear of spending on young unknown players who won't make it but the comfort zone of spending that very same money on Aurier, Moura, Sissoko. 25-27 year olds who cost £20-30m each and drive some serious mediocrity into the squad.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing the Jose moulded Sessegnon. For me, he is a Spurs signing in the transfer strategy I would like us to follow. I would have preferred it if we would have overpaid for him at 16/17 (if that was an option) like some fans think we have with Clarke. I'm OK with that as well.

So do you reckon Clarke can stay and get involved this season?

I think we're looking for another loan for him.
 
I think we're looking for another loan for him.
That for me is the troubling aspect of Jose's management. Clarke out on loan, Parrott on loan, Sessegnon touted for a loan, same with Foyth. Next we'll hear that Tanganga is going out on loan. Is there no desire to develop and integrate these young players ourselves.
 
That for me is the troubling aspect of Jose's management. Clarke out on loan, Parrott on loan, Sessegnon touted for a loan, same with Foyth. Next we'll hear that Tanganga is going out on loan. Is there no desire to develop and integrate these young players ourselves.
It's just a different style of management to Poch, but that doesn't mean worse. They are getting developed by going on loan and playing games. Often once they get to that age they need to be playing in order to improve and show what they are capable of. The approach under Poch stifled any sort of path 2 first team football with both us or elsewhere and unsurprisingly has ended up with young players leaving Spurs.

At least by loaning them out we can see what standard they are at and be able to get a fee in selling them and they can actually be employable too. What club is going to want to sign a 22/23/24 year old who hasn't played any games but has CV just of training with Spurs seniors.
 
It looks like it. Now it will have to be one where he can get a chance to play, QPR toughened him up - away from home, on his own etc Now with his injury fully behind him (I hope), he has to get his head down and win a place and play week in, week out.
Sounds just the ticket, if he stays which he will i presume.
 
I'm pretty sure we have no intention of being impatient with him; despite our fans lack of impatience there is still a belief (well there was a month or so ago) that he was one for the future.
After a considerable outlay i'd like to think so. Wouldn't want to see us making easy money on him by cashing in so soon.