Obesity Bigger Health Crisis than Hunger

[Villan Of The North]

The Fear - 22/7/2014 11:45

I'm kind of the counter argument to that. It is hard, at any age, but it can be done.

It is down, exactly to that word you use at the end, motivation.

It is pretty much down to us what we eat. That is the start point.

Oh I'm by no means making excuses, just explaining that it's not quite as simple and easy as to sit in judgement saying "obese people have a choice. Just like you didn't choose to have your illnesses, I didn't choose mine and trust men when I say that asthmas can be every bit as debilitating as pretty much any illness short of paralysis. At the same time, you have learned to work around and through your illnesses, I'm still working on that and learning to pace myself so that I don't suffer from an attack whilst trying to train.

As for food, as you say, it's the starting point but it's by no means the end of the story.

 

[Villan Of The North]

KK makes a point, inadvertently I believe, that perhaps merits further discussion.

Can obesity be the symptom of mental illness? Certainly depression causes apathy and generally screws up motivation. Addictions are every bit mental as physical, especially food addictions. Many overweight people display self destructive behaviour (I know I do from time to time) when they effectively sabotage themselves, much of this going back to feelings of self worth and definitely self belief. Take a look at the weight loss TV programs and without fail they always make a big point of breaking down the mental barriers and helping people to heal mentally just as much as instructing on nutrition and exercise.

 

[SKEGGY]

kefkat - 21/7/2014 23:50

Banana's and peaches then on the menu. Leave the stuff alone that's more expensive. Our greengrocer has always been cheaper than our supermarket, however it doesn't last so well. Need to eat within 2 days, which is O.K if you a growing family as it wont last 5 minutes. It didn't with mine.

I do agree though the cost of groceries is ridiculous, even just for the basics

Banana and a peach isn't much of a tea! Where as a deep pan pepperoni pizza for a £1 is.

 

[Guest]

Your missing the point though KK, add up the pounds of the different varieties of fruit to get your 5 a day then it soon mounts up per day per week per month, take Bannana's a pound for 5 i would need 6 bunch's a week alone to get us all having one each, then thats without the rest it adds up too too much, we have a little fruit but can't afford what we should be getting tbh,

As Skeggy points out a £1 for a pizzaor in our case 60p and a £1 cheesy garlic bread from ASDA gets us a meal for one night sharing me and the MRS, the fruit added up is too expensive.

 

[Villan Of The North]

ClivetheVillan - 22/7/2014 13:15

Your missing the point though KK, add up the pounds of the different varieties of fruit to get your 5 a day then it soon mounts up per day per week per month, take Bannana's a pound for 5 i would need 6 bunch's a week alone to get us all having one each, then thats without the rest it adds up too too much, we have a little fruit but can't afford what we should be getting tbh,

As Skeggy points out a £1 for a pizzaor in our case 60p and a £1 cheesy garlic bread from ASDA gets us a meal for one night sharing me and the MRS, the fruit added up is too expensive.

That's £6 a week, not likely to break anybody's bank really. Multiply that by 5 a day (obviously different fruit) and you're at £30 a week or about £130 a month. It may sound a lot but eating 5 a day will replace some of the crap food you would otherwise eat, and I bet you eat sweets too, as well as lower quality food.

Seriously, if you do it properly it may cost a little more in total but not much (probably not at all). That said, I'm as guilty as you and many others, not due to money, flavour or knowledge, just down to convenience. I believe that this is the key point for most of us, it's easy to eat poorly and takes effort to eat well.

 

[Guest]

£130 Month dude would be nearly two weeks of shopping food for us VOTN dude, seriously way too much

 

[Villan57]

Villan Of The North - 22/7/2014 09:53

david-avfc - 22/7/2014 00:23

Obese people have a choice, those who are dying of starvation don't.

I used to make statements like that when I was young, arrogant and lacking in life experience. Since then I have developed some bad habits that have changed my situation and been afflicted by health matters that greatly influence my situation.

To cut a long story short, in my early 20s I developed asthma and my general situation regarding allergies has deteriorated. This has made exercising more of a challenge than it used to be. In addition, I became a father supporting a family on a relatively low income (trust me, low income in the UK is not the same as low income in Norway as in Norway everything other than the countryside costs money and pretty much everything is expensive even compared to the high wage levels here), this lead to me spending a lot of time at home, inevitably in front of the TV or computer screen - I didn't have the heart to leave my wife at home looking after our twin babies (now they are teenagers so no problem). Add this to a string of sedentary jobs and you will see how I became, through a mixture of health matters, bad choices and lifestyle situations forced on me, pretty unfit.

One other thing that I didn't appreciate as a younger man is just how bloody difficult things are in terms of regaining fitness as you get older, everything seems to take more effort, recovery and healing times are longer. Had someone tried to tell me the difference between 32 and 42 (my current age) before I experienced it I would not have believed them. Even people who have maintained good fitness all their lives will attest to the fact that when you start to approach middle age your body no longer responds how it used to. I remember, in my mid 20s, I decided that I was not in good shape and was carrying a bit too much weight ( I was not exactly fat but wanted to be slimmer and fitter) - it took me about a month to build up my fitness to a pretty good level - now it takes a lot more.

So from your viewpoint, being overweight is a choice but from mine it's a trap that I fell into and am struggling to escape. I have the knowledge but when you feel pain, sickness and general discomfort, combined with having difficulties breathing (unfitness combined with asthma) then it's not always easy to motivate yourself to do what you know needs to be done.

Good points Ian. I've had my thyroid knocked out which really knocks the whole metabolic system.
I take 150mcg of thyroid a day , I could take more but then you get an enlarged heart which will kill you anyway.

Anyway I don't have sympathy for countries where there is no food but they still keep banging kids out . If you can't feed the little feckers stop having them simples !

 

[Villan Of The North]

ClivetheVillan - 22/7/2014 13:43

£130 Month dude would be nearly two weeks of shopping food for us VOTN dude, seriously way too much

Yes but you are missing the point, you would be saving on the other things that you buy (or rather would not be buying) as you would not buy the fruit in addition, you would buy it instead of. Mind you, if you can feed a family of 5(?) on £65 a week I'm impressed.

 

[kefkat]

SKEGGY - 22/7/2014 12:11

kefkat - 21/7/2014 23:50

Banana's and peaches then on the menu. Leave the stuff alone that's more expensive. Our greengrocer has always been cheaper than our supermarket, however it doesn't last so well. Need to eat within 2 days, which is O.K if you a growing family as it wont last 5 minutes. It didn't with mine.

I do agree though the cost of groceries is ridiculous, even just for the basics

Banana and a peach isn't much of a tea! Where as a deep pan pepperoni pizza for a £1 is.

Get your point Skeggy, however 1 pizza wouldn't feed a family of say 4. You would need 2 at least depending on the ages.

Then you get them stuffing crisps after, and fruit is healthier and cheaper.

I still say you can get a bag of stewing meat from your local freezer shop. Not the best quality as I said before, with vegetables and potatoes etc. it is not that much more expensive.

Down to choice yes

 

[kefkat]

ClivetheVillan - 22/7/2014 12:15

Your missing the point though KK, add up the pounds of the different varieties of fruit to get your 5 a day then it soon mounts up per day per week per month, take Bannana's a pound for 5 i would need 6 bunch's a week alone to get us all having one each, then thats without the rest it adds up too too much, we have a little fruit but can't afford what we should be getting tbh,

As Skeggy points out a £1 for a pizzaor in our case 60p and a £1 cheesy garlic bread from ASDA gets us a meal for one night sharing me and the MRS, the fruit added up is too expensive.

A pizza is a treat night with salad for us at home. You can buy the cheap 1's and add anything you got at home to them too. I get what your saying Clive however our local supermarket always has a bunch of fruit and veg on sale on the sale table, at stupidly low prices for eating that day or the latest day after.

I am just saying it is possible though harder a work. I have been through the skint times when my youngsters were little so know about having to economise and look round for deals etc. on a budget ensuring they at least got what they needed a week

As I come from a cheffing background that I accept makes it easier to think out oft he box what you can do with foods so at the youngsters got what they needed

 

[The Fear]

Villan Of The North - 22/7/2014 11:33


Oh I'm by no means making excuses, just explaining that it's not quite as simple and easy as to sit in judgement saying "obese people have a choice. Just like you didn't choose to have your illnesses, I didn't choose mine and trust men when I say that asthmas can be every bit as debilitating as pretty much any illness short of paralysis. At the same time, you have learned to work around and through your illnesses, I'm still working on that and learning to pace myself so that I don't suffer from an attack whilst trying to train.

As for food, as you say, it's the starting point but it's by no means the end of the story.

I have asthma. I've had every rib in my body broken in several places numerous times, they are agony, they are clipped together, hence my breathing is even shallower than it should be. I understand asthma. I'd disagree with your assessment of it being as debilitating as almost anything other than paralysis but then, that isn't really the point and would be semantics I guess. It is however a right royal pain in the backside... or is that hemorrhoids?!

I could then go on and list 30 odd other things, flat feet, plantar fiscalis, buggered knees (from the age of 13), not too infrequent burstitus, not to mention the brain and the csf pressure etc.

I totally understand the health side of it. There are usually ways around, not the ways you might want (ie my first choice sports I can't do... 'can't' isn't a word I like but sometimes it is just fact)

And if exercise isn't possible, then diet (not dieting) is the end of the story. However with many (not all) ailments it needn't be.

Sounds to me that they aren't doing a good job of controlling your asthma or advising you on it (that isn't meant to be a throwaway line mate, as I think you will know) as some top athletes also suffer with asthma.

I know by the end of leg torture day I'm literally gasping for air, I take that as job done albeit an uncomfortable job!

Even without exercise, weight can be kept in check, albeit it is harder and personally I find it harder to find the motivation at the stages where any exertion has been impossible.

 

[The Fear]

Villan Of The North - 22/7/2014 11:38

KK makes a point, inadvertently I believe, that perhaps merits further discussion.

Can obesity be the symptom of mental illness? Certainly depression causes apathy and generally screws up motivation. Addictions are every bit mental as physical, especially food addictions. Many overweight people display self destructive behaviour (I know I do from time to time) when they effectively sabotage themselves, much of this going back to feelings of self worth and definitely self belief. Take a look at the weight loss TV programs and without fail they always make a big point of breaking down the mental barriers and helping people to heal mentally just as much as instructing on nutrition and exercise.

Depression, lack of motivation, feeling of aimlessness in life, etc... of course, people latch on to addictive sugar filled comfort foods and it temporarily makes them feel better, then they get the low and feel more down/depressed/despondent and so the spiral goes.

For most of us life is a mental or mentality thing.

We do make an awful lot of our choices, we do throw an awful lot of excuses as to why we can't do things and we are enabled by a poor me society in my very humble.

(Almost, there are the horrendous illnesses and extremes) ...everyone has choices. Not everyone has the mental strength to make the right one/s.

Exercise takes effort, for some who don't really enjoy it or won't allow themselves to find out if they enjoy it, a huge effort.

Eating right also takes effort as there is so much crap to eat and get us addicted and people kid themselves that fast food is cheaper, if people were willing to buy the right ingredients and cook properly these days, it wouldn't be cheaper, but many aren't (modern society)

 

[kefkat]

Villan Of The North - 22/7/2014 11:38

KK makes a point, inadvertently I believe, that perhaps merits further discussion.

Can obesity be the symptom of mental illness? Certainly depression causes apathy and generally screws up motivation. Addictions are every bit mental as physical, especially food addictions. Many overweight people display self destructive behaviour (I know I do from time to time) when they effectively sabotage themselves, much of this going back to feelings of self worth and definitely self belief. Take a look at the weight loss TV programs and without fail they always make a big point of breaking down the mental barriers and helping people to heal mentally just as much as instructing on nutrition and exercise.

No not inadvertently. It did what I hoped, which was opened up the topic. I didn't know how it was going to open though, so we both part right.

When someone has issues they usually turn to something to attempt to remover the pain all be it fleetingly. If those issues aren't addressed for whatever reason, appropriately (they usually take years to be, if they are going to be) then the symptom comes into it.

The symptom being alcohol/drugs/gambling/shopping/comfort eating, starvation/bulimic as a form of self punishment and so on.

So what needs to happen is that the underlying causes need to be addressed. That is easier said than done, as mental health which these come under the umbrella of is a complex issue.

Incidently there are a few physical diseases which cause weight gain. Cushings disease and Thyroid as as been pointed out are 2 of them I know of, off the top of my head. Also people on alot of varying meds can gain weight because of the way they react with each other

 

[The Fear]

I will hold my hand up and admit my food bill is ridiculous for one person though...! :12:

 

[david-avfc]

VOTN I sympathise with your problem, I know it's not a "choice" as such, however the point I was trying to make is that people suffering with starvation literally have nothing they can possibly do about it - there is no food around and/or they do not have money to buy any.

 

[kefkat]

JF Quote
Eating right also takes effort as there is so much crap to eat and get us addicted and people kid themselves that fast food is cheaper, if people were willing to buy the right ingredients and cook properly these days, it wouldn't be cheaper, but many aren't (modern society)

.........................................................................................

My ex deceased Mother in Law was a cow, no 2 words about it. Even the ex agreed with me on that. However 1 of the rare compliments I got from her was 'I could cook, which was more than can be said for most' she said of the day and age. That was in 1985. So the problems were starting then. so will be a hundreds times worse now.

Like I said even though the quality won't be the same go to the freezer shops, buy bags of mince, stewing beef, chops, fish, soasages even a piece of meat for Sunday and so on from there. You can still buy meat for everyday of the week for about £15-00.

Then bulk it up with spuds veg (veg from the freezer shop) or make pasta's and so on. Yes you can feed your children a proper cooked meal a day, cereals in the morning and toast if that's what they like and so on. It is perfectly possible to feed your family properly even today on a low budget. I know it cos I have done it.

 

[kefkat]

The Fear - 22/7/2014 13:43

I will hold my hand up and admit my food bill is ridiculous for one person though...! :12:

It isn't if you can afford it. It will be because of the amount of effort you put into your diet needs and exercise etc. If you didn't do it with all your health problems your life wouldn't have any quality as a bad diet doesn't help health issues I know.

Yours are life threatening so you may not be here having this convo if you didn't do it.

I am the same as VOTN though Clive. Our shopping is more than yours a week for 3 of us and I do shop around. O.K I don't skimp today and buy cheaper meat cuts etc. however our shopping bill for a week is more than yours

 

[Villan Of The North]

david-avfc - 22/7/2014 14:45

VOTN I sympathise with your problem, I know it's not a "choice" as such, however the point I was trying to make is that people suffering with starvation literally have nothing they can possibly do about it - there is no food around and/or they do not have money to buy any.

True. Although as Juan pointed out, there is very little need to starve, the main problem is ignorance of how to feed oneself, with some notable exceptions such as the refugees from the Etheopian civil war in the 1980s.

 

[Villan Of The North]

The Fear - 22/7/2014 14:38



I have asthma. I've had every rib in my body broken in several places numerous times, they are agony, they are clipped together, hence my breathing is even shallower than it should be. I understand asthma. I'd disagree with your assessment of it being as debilitating as almost anything other than paralysis

Is that not a question of the severity of the asthma? I have, a few times, ended up in casualty due to allergy related asthma. I assure you, I was incapable of doing anything other than the most gentle of short distance walks. Thankfully my asthma is not usually anything like as debilitating but on the odd occasion it is and for some unfortunates it is like that all the time.

 

[Villan Of The North]

The Fear - 22/7/2014 14:38

Villan Of The North - 22/7/2014 11:33


Oh I'm by no means making excuses, just explaining that it's not quite as simple and easy as to sit in judgement saying "obese people have a choice. Just like you didn't choose to have your illnesses, I didn't choose mine and trust men when I say that asthmas can be every bit as debilitating as pretty much any illness short of paralysis. At the same time, you have learned to work around and through your illnesses, I'm still working on that and learning to pace myself so that I don't suffer from an attack whilst trying to train.

As for food, as you say, it's the starting point but it's by no means the end of the story.

I have asthma. I've had every rib in my body broken in several places numerous times, they are agony, they are clipped together, hence my breathing is even shallower than it should be. I understand asthma. I'd disagree with your assessment of it being as debilitating as almost anything other than paralysis but then, that isn't really the point and would be semantics I guess. It is however a right royal pain in the backside... or is that hemorrhoids?!

I could then go on and list 30 odd other things, flat feet, plantar fiscalis, buggered knees (from the age of 13), not too infrequent burstitus, not to mention the brain and the csf pressure etc.

I totally understand the health side of it. There are usually ways around, not the ways you might want (ie my first choice sports I can't do... 'can't' isn't a word I like but sometimes it is just fact)

And if exercise isn't possible, then diet (not dieting) is the end of the story. However with many (not all) ailments it needn't be.

Sounds to me that they aren't doing a good job of controlling your asthma or advising you on it (that isn't meant to be a throwaway line mate, as I think you will know) as some top athletes also suffer with asthma.

I know by the end of leg torture day I'm literally gasping for air, I take that as job done albeit an uncomfortable job!

Even without exercise, weight can be kept in check, albeit it is harder and personally I find it harder to find the motivation at the stages where any exertion has been impossible.

I agree with most of that, as I said, not making excuses, just explaining the trap that I fell into and that it's not quite as simple as making a decision to climb out of said trap. I am in the process but that's really the point, it is a process and takes time, to adjust both mentally and physically.