O/T Corbyn...time to go?

[The real Swaley]

At last...some sense from you!
I agree with the point you make. Unfortunately I think you’ve made it better than JC...that’s the leader of the Labour Party...not the ‘King of the Jews’ one.

Roger’s point sums up the problem to me. Popular with the revolutionary adventurists in Momentum but not enough credibility elsewhere imo.

P.S. Basie...I quite like Corbyn as a person and sympathise with many of his views but that doesn’t mean that, objectively, I have to acknowledge him as a potential PM.
I don’t actually like Tony Blair very much but I think most would agree that, in political terms, he could run circles round the current bunch of Westminster charlatans.
Ultimately I want a better and fairer society...yes...’for the many not the few’...but I doubt that Corbyn is capable of achieving that aim and for that reason I’d like a change.
I’m not personally influenced by what you refer to as the ‘Murdoch/Tory’ press but many people are and however well intentioned the likes of Corbyn, McDonald and Abbott may be I think that they are, rightly or wrongly, a barrier to the election of a left of centre government.

There is this perceived wisdom that in order to gain power one has to move towards the centre, the fact that Corbyn sticks to his guns does not mean he is a liability and I fail to see on what basis you feel he isn't making inroads. The local elections cannot be taken as a sign and at the last election the Tories actually lost their majority, in truth the country is so divided, between those who want Brexit (which includes a number of core labour voters) and those who don't that political stalemate is inevitable.

Judgement as to whether he is a good leader seems to be based on the fact that he isn't a smart suited PR man, well that did Cameron a lot of good didn't it?

I think whoever is leader of whatever party will struggle to command a majority of the voters, given the divided there is amongst voters mainly sue to Brexit.

As for him being a threat to security, mm its not labour who have denuded the armed forces of resources, scrapping perfectly good jets (harriers), removing our maritime patrol capability (nimrod) and building an aircraft carrier which as yet and for some time to come wont have any aircraft.

 

[RedBasie]

What do you class 'avoiding paying tax' Basie? We've been through this on other forum, and there wasn't anyone who could actually claim to not be avoiding tax in one way or another. I'll agree there are degrees to it, but as I've said before 'There are no clean hands'.

I not too bothered about the small fry . It's the super rich 1 per cent I'm on about all over the world the ones who Right leaning governments tailor their financial laws to. The ones including global companies, rich celebrities, sport stars & business people who contribute nothing to public infrastructure such as health ,education law & order, flood defences etc etc but use them probably more so than the other 99 per cent.

 

[RedBasie]

Worry not mista. MoP is just **** stirring. Even the Tories, well most of them, know that ‘Lord Snooty’ is an unelectable ‘throwback’.

Apart from being a complete prat, imo, I gather he and his company, Somerset Capital (?) stand to do very well out of the falling pound which will accompany Brexit. No wonder he’s such an enthusiastic Brexiteer is it?

An accurate description of Mogg.

 

[ramAnag]

There is this perceived wisdom that in order to gain power one has to move towards the centre, the fact that Corbyn sticks to his guns does not mean he is a liability and I fail to see on what basis you feel he isn't making inroads. The local elections cannot be taken as a sign and at the last election the Tories actually lost their majority, in truth the country is so divided, between those who want Brexit (which includes a number of core labour voters) and those who don't that political stalemate is inevitable.

Judgement as to whether he is a good leader seems to be based on the fact that he isn't a smart suited PR man, well that did Cameron a lot of good didn't it?

I think whoever is leader of whatever party will struggle to command a majority of the voters, given the divided there is amongst voters mainly sue to Brexit.

As for him being a threat to security, mm its not labour who have denuded the armed forces of resources, scrapping perfectly good jets (harriers), removing our maritime patrol capability (nimrod) and building an aircraft carrier which as yet and for some time to come wont have any aircraft.

I never judge potential leaders on the cut of their suit Swale and neither have I mentioned ‘security’, that came from elsewhere.

I understand and agree with your point about local elections but at a time when the Tory government is as inept as any I can remember I’d expect a strong opposition to be hammering home the advantage at this time and they haven’t.

My question about Corbyn as a potential leader stems from his failure to show leadership over two enormous issues...Brexit and anti Semitism.
Has he ever made his philosophy clear over Brexit? I think not, largely because he is understandably fearful of alienating Labour’s traditional support, but the country needs to see some clear thinking from a would be leader. A strong, united opposition would have slaughtered the disunited rag bag of Brexiteer/Tory self interest but the only Party leader demonstrating real clarity of thought is Vince Cable.

As regards anti-Semetism it’s easier imo. As Basie has said, being anti Zionist and opposed to the treatment of Palestinians does not make one an ‘anti-Semite’...but all we hear from Corbyn is a deafening silence.

I do not doubt that he is an intelligent man with a clear sense of social justice...whether that makes him a credible national leader or an ironic barrier to the change you and I would both welcome remains my
question.

 

[Manofpride]

Basie,
Looks like this bloke was a writer for Viz,
Some folk have issues with abortion, it' can be a touchy subject! No matter what circumstances a baby is made some folk think that killing a baby is not the way to go. Awful decision for the girl and even a worse decision for the baby. Anyone being asked their views on religion will be slaughtered no matter what answers they give.
By the way I'm not a Catholic I'm an atheist.
Anyway it looks to me like Mogg will be the next leader of the Conservatives, once in he'll be hard to shift!

 

[Mistaram]

There is this perceived wisdom that in order to gain power one has to move towards the centre, the fact that Corbyn sticks to his guns does not mean he is a liability and I fail to see on what basis you feel he isn't making inroads. The local elections cannot be taken as a sign and at the last election the Tories actually lost their majority, in truth the country is so divided, between those who want Brexit (which includes a number of core labour voters) and those who don't that political stalemate is inevitable.

Judgement as to whether he is a good leader seems to be based on the fact that he isn't a smart suited PR man, well that did Cameron a lot of good didn't it?

I think whoever is leader of whatever party will struggle to command a majority of the voters, given the divided there is amongst voters mainly sue to Brexit.

As for him being a threat to security, mm its not labour who have denuded the armed forces of resources, scrapping perfectly good jets (harriers), removing our maritime patrol capability (nimrod) and building an aircraft carrier which as yet and for some time to come wont have any aircraft.[/QUO Swales " As or him being a threat to security " Didn't you know he was a spy all according to all the right wing press and minister Gavin Williamson he is a traitor for meeting a Czech diplomat during the cold war When in truth the only MP proven to be a paid agent of Czech intelligence was Ray Mawby the Conservative No for Totnes for 28yrs Among the information he had given was a floor plan of the PM office and details of all our security staff

 

[RedBasie]

Basie,
Looks like this bloke was a writer for Viz,
Some folk have issues with abortion, it' can be a touchy subject! No matter what circumstances a baby is made some folk think that killing a baby is not the way to go. Awful decision for the girl and even a worse decision for the baby. Anyone being asked their views on religion will be slaughtered no matter what answers they give.
By the way I'm not a Catholic I'm an atheist.
Anyway it looks to me like Mogg will be the next leader of the Conservatives, once in he'll be hard to shift!

Very selective there MOP. What about the rest of what was said about him ?

 

[Manofpride]

Basie,
The writer was also selective trying to find his way to bring someone down he doesn't like or agree with. Gay marriage is another topic we could discuss until the cows come home and again a touchy subject. Each to their own I say, we can't all agree. I like Mogg you don't, You like Forest I don't.
I wonder what Corbyns beliefs are. A good Journalist could make him a good or bad guy depending on which party the journalist favours!

If I was to vote at an election I wouldn't give a flying fuck what religion the candidate was as long as I thought he could do the job.

 

[RedBasie]

Basie,
The writer was also selective trying to find his way to bring someone down he doesn't like or agree with. Gay marriage is another topic we could discuss until the cows come home and again a touchy subject. Each to their own I say, we can't all agree. I like Mogg you don't, You like Forest I don't.
I wonder what Corbyns beliefs are. A good Journalist could make him a good or bad guy depending on which party the journalist favours!

If I was to vote at an election I wouldn't give a flying fuck what religion the candidate was as long as I thought he could do the job.

So you like a man who's in bed with the Reds, who allows Russians to money launder in London, buy up the London property market in order to further his business interests and encourage vast donations to Tory party funds. Corbyn would get roasted if he tried any of that. Also you still going on solely about his religious beliefs which was only a small part of my earlier criticisms, still you've always been selective in your responses.

 

[Manofpride]

What a load of old tosh, you'll be saying he got the Russians to fix the Brexit vote next! The word gullible comes to mind!

 

[RedBasie]

So are you denying that rich Russians are buying up the London property market and who's allowing them to do that with laws tailored to benefit the Mega Rich and in return for what ?

 

[Manofpride]

So the Russians buying property in London is all to do with Mogg, what a prat.

 

[Manofpride]

Anyone can attach a lie, or is it?

 

[RedBasie]

So the Russians buying property in London is all to do with Mogg, what a prat.

So who is it then ? Not solely to do with Mogg, but he is part of the corrupt party where sort of thing happens and he himself is heavily involved. Didn't Boris Johnson receive £160000 to play tennis with a Russian ? Then there is the Tory Black & White Ball where donors pay £15000 to have dinner with Gavin Williamson. I wouldn't pay to have a bag of chips with them, but some people do including the Russians so what are they after and what do they get in return?

 

[Roger Ramjet]

So are you denying that rich Russians are buying up the London property market and who's allowing them to do that with laws tailored to benefit the Mega Rich and in return for what ?

What a bizarre non sequitor. Rich Russians may be buying up property in London, so might rich British or other foreign nationals. Are you advocating that we should introduce a law that restricts property ownership in the UK to just English nationals? I think we might need to wait until Brexit happens before doing that. Sounds a bit dictatorial and "little britain"-ish to me. Are you a secret fascist?

Now these laws tailored to benefit these non doms, or are they doms, or what - please exemplify rather than seek to justify your opinion with vague allusions to the naughty lawmakers

 

[RedBasie]

Anyone can attach a lie, or is it?

Sorry MOP, if want a response to that, please make it possible for me it to read it. I don't think I need to visit Specsavers.

 

[Roger Ramjet]

So who is it then ? Not solely to do with Mogg, but he is part of the corrupt party where sort of thing happens and he himself is heavily involved. Didn't Boris Johnson receive £160000 to play tennis with a Russian ? Then there is the Tory Black & White Ball where donors pay £15000 to have dinner with Gavin Williamson. I wouldn't pay to have a bag of chips with them, but some people do including the Russians so what are they after and what do they get in return?

View attachment 26898

Let me suggest one word: TRADE. We are ever more dependent on their LNG and piped gas supplies and it behoves any government to secure the country's future energy supplies. Just an example. Also, in case you did not realise, Brexit has made it incumbent on us to develop new markets and suppliers.

Continue to sit in your ivory tower by all means, but there are those nearer the coal face that have to keep your ivory tower replete with resources while you pontificate

 

[RedBasie]

What a bizarre non sequitor. Rich Russians may be buying up property in London, so might rich British or other foreign nationals. Are you advocating that we should introduce a law that restricts property ownership in the UK to just English nationals? I think we might need to wait until Brexit happens before doing that. Sounds a bit dictatorial and "little britain"-ish to me. Are you a secret fascist?

Now these laws tailored to benefit these non doms, or are they doms, or what - please exemplify rather than seek to justify your opinion with vague allusions to the naughty lawmakers

So according to you market forces must prevail and property should go to those who least need it who buy all the property they can to create land banks for investment purposes. This is encouraged by the Government who's duty it is for them to represent the people being forced out of London by property prices and not the Mega Rich who give heavily to party funds. That is corruption as is the refusal to clad Grenfell Towers on grounds of cost of cladding fit for purpose. That is manslaughter.

 

[Manofpride]

Sorry MOP, if want a response to that, please make it possible for me it to read it. I don't think I need to visit Specsavers.

Just like Corbyn and his cronies, you only see what you want to see!

 

[Roger Ramjet]

That is indeed market forces. Either you introduce totalitarian restrictions on property ownership, ban foreigners from buying up UK property and give all Londoners interest free loans of a couple of million or... erm?

The matter of Grenfell Towers is not remotely relevant to the subject, so please cease with the ignoratio elenchi.

Anyway as you clearly hate foreigners living in London, you should be happy about Grenfell Towers.