Not good enough to go up | Page 5 | Vital Football

Not good enough to go up

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Pathetic isn’t it. Lolley has the most assists in the league I believe and has double figures for goals, but nah, we didn’t make the top 4, so how could he have been one of the best players.... load of crap!
 
Also, Jack Grealish???? He’s only been fit for for about 2 months of the season and has scored about 4 goals - talk about picking a player for their name and club
 
Randolph certainly looked decent on Monday (when he wasn't picking the ball out of the back of the net or watching Carvalho bounce it off the post!)
 
Marco Polo said:
I’ll admit that. There’s an outside chance of sneaking in the playoffs but we wont

So

What do we need? There’s not an obvious problem we’re generally just not ready

We need another striker for sure

Settle that defence and it’s fine

New keeper? Is pants too tall?

Just need Brexit to get cancelled and we can think about the summer additions
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Well done me. The Nostradamus of vital forest
 
kabooooooom said:
Just seeing how little Norwich spent on assembling an excellent team.
About time we got the recruitment right and stop spending zillions on hasbeens or putting too many eggs in one basket
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Norwich have two full backs Lewis and Aarons (age 21 and 19!), who have come through their academy. Also sold Josh and Jacob Murphy, so looks like their academy has been pretty successful. Played them in the semi-finals of the under-18 cup in 2013. Most of our lot have just disappeared!

• Nottingham Forest: Smith, Hollingsworth, Kameneno, Blake, Gorman, Fenton, Gnahore (Grant, 68), Wallace, Elliott (Otim, 113), Ferrier (Petravicius, 102), Palmer-Samuels. Subs (not used): Durrant, Sebastiao.

• Norwich City: Britt, Norman, Wyatt, McGeehan, McFadden, Toffolo, Jacob Murphy (Randall, 119), Hall-Johnson, Morris, King (Young, 58 (Barker, 63)), Josh Murphy. Subs (not used): Lokko, Reading, Randall.

Not sure what happened to their players, though the two Murphy's are currently in the PL.
 
Basha73 said:
Just goes to show how few players actually make it.
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Could be a bit more to it than that Bash. I'm a bit out of touch these days but there's 2 points which might crop up here. Our Academy won't be cheap to run and bearing in mind that we don't seem to produce a lot in the way of decent senior players lately who are able to go on to better clubs, are we getting value for money ? And second, we never seem to hear much about our scouting system, that's assuming we have one. The signings we make these days don't seem to be the result of good scouting.
I might be completely wrong in both cases but there's doubt in my mind.
 
Old Red Fart said:
Could be a bit more to it than that Bash. I'm a bit out of touch these days but there's 2 points which might crop up here. Our Academy won't be cheap to run and bearing in mind that we don't seem to produce a lot in the way of decent senior players lately who are able to go on to better clubs, are we getting value for money ? And second, we never seem to hear much about our scouting system, that's assuming we have one. The signings we make these days don't seem to be the result of good scouting.
I might be completely wrong in both cases but there's doubt in my mind.
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Brereton was scouted, as was Matty Cash - rather being brought through our academy.

We got £7m for BB this season, I would imagine Cash would generate £3m + if sold.

In addition, our academy has generated - Jordan Smith, Ben Osborn, Joe Worrall, Jorge Grant, Tyler Walker, Adam Crookes, Virgil Gomis - all still on our books and either playing for NFFC or out on loan.

Olly Burke sold for £13m a few season ago (Lascelles & Darlow - £7m a bit further back, plus Pat Bamford £1.5m)

Tyler Walker 26 goals L2 - under contract, so he would command a decent fee. Worrall rumoured interest from Burnley at £10m.

Arvin Appiah, Brennan Johnson & others now on the fringe of the first team.

I'm not sure on how you measure success, but I'd say that our academy is doing very well.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Brereton was scouted, as was Matty Cash - rather being brought through our academy.

We got £7m for BB this season, I would imagine Cash would generate £3m + if sold.

In addition, our academy has generated - Jordan Smith, Ben Osborn, Joe Worrall, Jorge Grant, Tyler Walker, Adam Crookes, Virgil Gomis - all still on our books and either playing for NFFC or out on loan.

Olly Burke sold for £13m a few season ago (Lascelles & Darlow - £7m a bit further back, plus Pat Bamford £1.5m)

Tyler Walker 26 goals L2 - under contract, so he would command a decent fee. Worrall rumoured interest from Burnley at £10m.

Arvin Appiah, Brennan Johnson & others now on the fringe of the first team.

I'm not sure on how you measure success, but I'd say that our academy is doing very well.
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I guess our academy has been fairly successful , plus under FFP spending £5 million on the academy to produce a £5 million pound player seems to be more beneficial than buying the same player in. It is a success to produce a professional player for the player, but realistically a success is only selling them on or them playing for us. I doubt now if Grant, Smith or Gomis are going to make it here. No idea on Crookes, and the jury is still out on Walker,though he should be given a chance next season.
 
Not disagreeing with your comments OKD but my opinions were based on recent events as I see them and even then some of the names you mention haven't exactly broken into the big time. And I doubt that they will. BB for example for 7 million quid (no pound sign on my machine over here) but not achieving anything yet and not looking good either. Grant for example playing well for Notts but not able to get a place in our side. Tyler Walker playing well and scoring like mad in L2, how would he go in the Championship ?
How would I rate success ? Easy, by playing well and consistently in our first team.
I have an open mind on the lads who are still in the Academy. and also those lads struggling to have the odd game in the Championship.
I know nothing about our scouting setup but would be interested to hear something definite.
 
Old Red Fart said:
Not disagreeing with your comments OKD but my opinions were based on recent events as I see them and even then some of the names you mention haven't exactly broken into the big time. And I doubt that they will. BB for example for 7 million quid (no pound sign on my machine over here) but not achieving anything yet and not looking good either. Grant for example playing well for Notts but not able to get a place in our side. Tyler Walker playing well and scoring like mad in L2, how would he go in the Championship ?
How would I rate success ? Easy, by playing well and consistently in our first team.
I have an open mind on the lads who are still in the Academy. and also those lads struggling to have the odd game in the Championship.
I know nothing about our scouting setup but would be interested to hear something definite.
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Ben Brereton (like Burke) chose to leave for big money, rather than staying at Forest - that yielded £20m to the club.

The fact that neither have gone on to achieve success is not down to NFFC - our academy more than did it's job.

The academy view is that ANY player that graduates our academy and goes on to play professional football is a success - if it generates money for NFFC - even better, ditto if they play for first team.

J Smith, Worrall, Cash, Osborn, Grant, Yates, Appiah, Walker, Burke, Brereton = all have played for our first team recently.


Ben Osborn & Matty Cash are first team regulars - to buy a player like them today would surely cost £6 - £7m combined?

Forgot Ryan Yates - a regular since MON came in, hard to put a value on him, but also had experience at Counteh & Scunny.

Crookes - we'll get a nominal compensatory fee.

Jorge Grant £500k?

Gomis - no idea.

Worrall - allegedly had interest at £10m, which I think is steep but established defender in SPL and Championship = £5m?

Jordan Smith - hard to value, regular under Warburton but not seen much since.

Tyler has had a series of injury setbacks, not to mention numerous managers at Forest - but, what would it cost to buy a young up & coming striker that has scored 26 goals in L2/cup - £2m, £3m? (We paid £5.5m to Posh for Britt (granted L1 at the time)).


I do understand what you are saying, ORF - but, academies burn through players at an alarming rate - it's a numbers game and only a very small percentage make it - I still feel that our academy can be labelled a success.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Ben Brereton (like Burke) chose to leave for big money, rather than staying at Forest - that yielded £20m to the club.

The fact that neither have gone on to achieve success is not down to NFFC - our academy more than did it's job.

The academy view is that ANY player that graduates our academy and goes on to play professional football is a success - if it generates money for NFFC - even better, ditto if they play for first team.

J Smith, Worrall, Cash, Osborn, Grant, Yates, Appiah, Walker, Burke, Brereton = all have played for our first team recently.


Ben Osborn & Matty Cash are first team regulars - to buy a player like them today would surely cost £6 - £7m combined?

Forgot Ryan Yates - a regular since MON came in, hard to put a value on him, but also had experience at Counteh & Scunny.

Crookes - we'll get a nominal compensatory fee.

Jorge Grant £500k?

Gomis - no idea.

Worrall - allegedly had interest at £10m, which I think is steep but established defender in SPL and Championship = £5m?

Jordan Smith - hard to value, regular under Warburton but not seen much since.

Tyler has had a series of injury setbacks, not to mention numerous managers at Forest - but, what would it cost to buy a young up & coming striker that has scored 26 goals in L2/cup - £2m, £3m? (We paid £5.5m to Posh for Britt (granted L1 at the time)).


I do understand what you are saying, ORF - but, academies burn through players at an alarming rate - it's a numbers game and only a very small percentage make it - I still feel that our academy can be labelled a success.
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OKD, thanks and understood. Bedtime for me here and late, will look deeper in the morning.

:thumbup:
 
Our Kids Dad said:
Ben Brereton (like Burke) chose to leave for big money, rather than staying at Forest - that yielded £20m to the club.

The fact that neither have gone on to achieve success is not down to NFFC - our academy more than did it's job.

The academy view is that ANY player that graduates our academy and goes on to play professional football is a success - if it generates money for NFFC - even better, ditto if they play for first team.

J Smith, Worrall, Cash, Osborn, Grant, Yates, Appiah, Walker, Burke, Brereton = all have played for our first team recently.


Ben Osborn & Matty Cash are first team regulars - to buy a player like them today would surely cost £6 - £7m combined?

Forgot Ryan Yates - a regular since MON came in, hard to put a value on him, but also had experience at Counteh & Scunny.

Crookes - we'll get a nominal compensatory fee.

Jorge Grant £500k?

Gomis - no idea.

Worrall - allegedly had interest at £10m, which I think is steep but established defender in SPL and Championship = £5m?

Jordan Smith - hard to value, regular under Warburton but not seen much since.

Tyler has had a series of injury setbacks, not to mention numerous managers at Forest - but, what would it cost to buy a young up & coming striker that has scored 26 goals in L2/cup - £2m, £3m? (We paid £5.5m to Posh for Britt (granted L1 at the time)).


I do understand what you are saying, ORF - but, academies burn through players at an alarming rate - it's a numbers game and only a very small percentage make it - I still feel that our academy can be labelled a success.
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Totally agree.

It’s interesting to see all of those names from that semi final and then see how few of those players have kicked on.

It’s a very small percentage of players that make it from youth team to a full first team so it’s a measure of how well we have done that there are 3 players currently in our first team along with Worrall out at Rangers.
 
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