Not good enough to go up | Page 6 | Vital Football

Not good enough to go up

It looks as though our Academy has been paying its way this last few years even though we don't seem to have produced much in the way of world beaters lately. Several of our youngsters look promising, Worrall, Cash and Yates come to mind, but have yet to prove themselves, in my view at any rate. Several younger players also seem to get a decent write up so who knows ?
Overall it does look reasonably promising.

That leaves the question of Scouting, which we don't hear much about. Well I don't anyway. Does anyone have proper information as opposed to rumour ?
 
It looks as though our Academy has been paying its way this last few years even though we don't seem to have produced much in the way of world beaters lately. Several of our youngsters look promising, Worrall, Cash and Yates come to mind, but have yet to prove themselves, in my view at any rate. Several younger players also seem to get a decent write up so who knows ?
Overall it does look reasonably promising.

That leaves the question of Scouting, which we don't hear much about. Well I don't anyway. Does anyone have proper information as opposed to rumour ?

Scouting is very competitive and sometimes hard to quantify, primarily as it's a numbers game..... i.e. get as many youngsters as possible assessed, from local/youth football and get them down to the academy for trials - but, typically scouts from other clubs local & national will be doing the same.

Scouts from Forest, Leicester, Derby, Stoke, Blades etc - very often at 'decent quality' youth games.

Sometimes though, it's who you know - to get your foot in the door.

Physicality, attitude and understanding parents are essential - lot's of travelling and a big commitment, certainly in a time perspective.

It's also about looking at what other clubs have, because as with Cash/Brereton - they may be released and we can then mop up.

The other side of the coin is that if you do have a real talent - you need to be able to keep them - especially when the big clubs come knocking.

Forest have local, national and international scouts - but so do most other clubs - with what our academy is doing at present, it's fair to say we do ok, given we are in the Championship.
 
Thanks OKD, with a bit of luck I'll get there. I've always assumed that we'd have a lot of competition from the rest of the Midland sides and assumed that Premier clubs would take preference because of their superior quality. And it's always seemed obvious that we'd have to be a selling club as well although I don't like saying that.
I can't see any of that changing greatly unless we get into the Premier League and even then it will be almost impossible to compete with the top 6.
In some ways Id be happier staying in the Championship, it always seems to be highly competitive even though the quality of the games leaves a bit to be desired.

Could be much worse than this though, just imagine if you were a Notts supporter.
 
When I was a kid, I played in two schools cup finals at the City Ground and was told there were no Forest scouts there at one of them LOL.

Two of the opposing team did go on to play for Forest though, so maybe that wasn't true?
 
When I was a kid, I played in two schools cup finals at the City Ground and was told there were no Forest scouts there at one of them LOL.

Two of the opposing team did go on to play for Forest though, so maybe that wasn't true?

Our scouting network (at least previously, I'm out of the loop nowadays) consisted of a handful of professionals and a reliance on volunteers/independent scouts bringing us referrals. I'd be surprised if the situation has changed vastly.
 
Our scouting network (at least previously, I'm out of the loop nowadays) consisted of a handful of professionals and a reliance on volunteers/independent scouts bringing us referrals. I'd be surprised if the situation has changed vastly.

Compared to 1980's/90's - it's very different, but cost implications remain a consideration. I've said this before, but the 3 years in L1 had a really bad impact on recruitment during those years - but, that's just about worked it's way through.


Ex-pro's still do make up a lot of the scouts (many of their kids play, so they magically get them in) - the others are not so much volunteers, they do get 'some' remuneration, but they are typically geographically constrained to the midlands.

Which makes sense, because getting kids to/from training & matches 3-4 times per week is difficult - so, most of the youngsters (up to 16) are within an hours drive (with Nottingham's transport infrastructure that just about gets you from Mansfield)!

'Forest In The Community' helps - as they go in schools regularly, those young coaches (& some older) are all employed by NFFC & that's a good way of spotting talented youngsters.

Then you have ex-players, Steve Chettle, Mark Draper etc - they have their own coaching academies and again, refer players.

Links with local clubs; Dunkirk, West Bridgford etc - also a really good source of youngsters, but also a good home for those children released after a few years, so that they can still be 'watched'.
 
Good update on scouting. Thanks OKD. Anyone know about scouting abroad as Forest first port of call appears to be foreign players whether that is spending £13M on a good young up and coming potential player or a Milosovic to fill a gap.

I feel MON knew this squad was short when he took over. Gave play offs a shot but not really believing. Even if we made play offs, unlikely to get promoted and even then the likelihood of being competitive even more remote. His main objective was to review the squad for areas of improvement over the summer. From the onset we all knew to go from relegation candidates to promotion in one season was a lot to expect. The squad is not good enough but shows promise in short passages. Consistency must improve.

So what for last game of the season. Finishing 8th or 12th matters little. Be nice to end season with three wins and give fans/players a lift. It would be nice to give some younger players some time. I would like MON to start with the team that played against Boro. Understand Pele may not be available so perhaps an opportunity to see Cash in his original position in midfield and Byram at wingback.

I would like to see Appiah play at some stage and possibly Johnson and Mighten on the bench. Helps young players feel there is a pathway.

Going back to your discussion re academy. I note that in this weekends England under 17 squad is Bondswell? One that got away, not for the want of trying.
 
Compared to 1980's/90's - it's very different, but cost implications remain a consideration. I've said this before, but the 3 years in L1 had a really bad impact on recruitment during those years - but, that's just about worked it's way through.


Ex-pro's still do make up a lot of the scouts (many of their kids play, so they magically get them in) - the others are not so much volunteers, they do get 'some' remuneration, but they are typically geographically constrained to the midlands.

Which makes sense, because getting kids to/from training & matches 3-4 times per week is difficult - so, most of the youngsters (up to 16) are within an hours drive (with Nottingham's transport infrastructure that just about gets you from Mansfield)!

'Forest In The Community' helps - as they go in schools regularly, those young coaches (& some older) are all employed by NFFC & that's a good way of spotting talented youngsters.

Then you have ex-players, Steve Chettle, Mark Draper etc - they have their own coaching academies and again, refer players.

Links with local clubs; Dunkirk, West Bridgford etc - also a really good source of youngsters, but also a good home for those children released after a few years, so that they can still be 'watched'.

I'm describing under ND for the most part and my understanding is that Fawaz had little interest in building a larger network...

They are remunerated but it's based upon players signing, I meant we've few scouts who are actually salaried and full time employees of NFFC.
 
Good update on scouting. Thanks OKD. Anyone know about scouting abroad as Forest first port of call appears to be foreign players whether that is spending £13M on a good young up and coming potential player or a Milosovic to fill a gap.

I feel MON knew this squad was short when he took over. Gave play offs a shot but not really believing. Even if we made play offs, unlikely to get promoted and even then the likelihood of being competitive even more remote. His main objective was to review the squad for areas of improvement over the summer. From the onset we all knew to go from relegation candidates to promotion in one season was a lot to expect. The squad is not good enough but shows promise in short passages. Consistency must improve.

So what for last game of the season. Finishing 8th or 12th matters little. Be nice to end season with three wins and give fans/players a lift. It would be nice to give some younger players some time. I would like MON to start with the team that played against Boro. Understand Pele may not be available so perhaps an opportunity to see Cash in his original position in midfield and Byram at wingback.

I would like to see Appiah play at some stage and possibly Johnson and Mighten on the bench. Helps young players feel there is a pathway.

Going back to your discussion re academy. I note that in this weekends England under 17 squad is Bondswell? One that got away, not for the want of trying.
I get the feeling MON knew very little about the squad when he came and did little research about the players he was inheriting. Adding 5 new players in Jan, should have made us competitive and given us a decent shot at the play-offs, but MON's approach gave us little chance. Fed up of hearing that the squad is not good enough! It was plenty good enough to be competing with the best teams for the first half of the season. Can't we just admit that MON messed up with his tactics and strange team selections???
 
What about the scouting at first team level? Compared with Leicester and Derby, our scouting seems to be a disaster. Only really made a profit on Antonio and Assombalonga. Leicester got Mahrez, whilst we got Abdoun and Djebbour. They got Vardy, Morgan, Albrighton, Simpson , Schmeikel for peanuts and they have all made hundreds of appearances, not to mention the profits on Mahrez and Kante.
Derby also seem to have a good recruitment policy . Meanwhile we recruit 15 players per season then end up paying to get rid of them ! Have Derby recruited any players like Clough, Cummings, Henderson, Ward, Velios etc We blame changing managers, but both our East Midlands rivals have had plenty of managers too.
 
Last edited:
I'm describing under ND for the most part and my understanding is that Fawaz had little interest in building a larger network...

They are remunerated but it's based upon players signing, I meant we've few scouts who are actually salaried and full time employees of NFFC.

:thumbup: - apologies for the misunderstanding.

I think we do as well as can be expected in a very competitive, ruthless & incestuous market!