No Evidence Of Benefits Culture

BodyButter

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
Despite the narative that the Tories are trying to sell of a culture of benefit cheats, researchers have been unable to find any families where no members had a job. "They did not find signs of "benefit ghettos", where joblessness was a lifestyle choice."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/11/benefits-street-culture-study-no-proof-joblessness-claim
 
Ssshhh Bodybutter. How can people be outraged if they know the truth? You know people like a good moan, and you've just ruined it for them!!!
 
There is a benefits culture to some extent but there has been for as long as it's been possible.

Just as an example, about 20 years a go, a then friend of mine was on placement as a trainee teacher. She did the classic, "What do you want to do when you leave school?" round of the classroom and started with a couple of boys who gave the standard answers, police, fire, army and then asked one of the girls who said that she wanted to get pregnant as then she'd be entitled to.....and proceded to list all the benefits she could claim.

So yes, there is most definately a benefits culture out there but that doesn't mean it's any worse now than it was before. Where ever it is possible to abuse a system there will always be people trying to take advantage.



 
I don't think it has ever been a major problem, but merely an exaggeration by the gutter press in order to sensationalise the subject.

Are there people that deliberately play the system - undoubtedly. Are they the majority of benefit claimants - nowhere near.
 
The culture of benefit cheats s less than 1%. They don't tell you that, as it doesn't sell media space. This was openly admitted on the discussion program after Benefits Streets which included a journalist, who openly admitted what we already new, that the percentage of benefits cheats is below 1%. It is something like 0.001% of the benefit claimants.

People also forget that working tax credit, pensions and child benefit are classed as benefits too, in the percentages of the welfare state. The pie chart is made up of pensions (which is nearly 50% of the welfare budget, followed by housing benefits (which can be claimed working or not)

I will see if I can find the pie chart, n my files and post it, again. Doesn't matter what walk of life you are talking about there will always be people swindling. Tax evasion and the banking fraud to name 2 are big 1's.
 
KK makes a great point on the working Tax Credits etc being classed as benefits in the Tories charts, and Heath dud i also agree with, it's all been widely exagorated to blame people for the mess the Bankers got us into gambling our pensions etc away causing the meltdown.

Round by me there seems to be less young girls nowadays with prams and babies unlike 10 years ago tbh, i think this trend has dies out as they used to drop as many kids as they could and get a council house and benefits, now there is no council houses and not much on offer so seems to have stopped it tbh,

BUT the real problem VOTN dude is people on welfare struggle to find a job to cover the costs of living, until the minimum wage reaches £10 per hour we will never prosper imho.
 
Putting a figure on it is pointless Clive. The minimum wage should be a percentage of the average and as such adjusts automatically with the varying economy.

 
Believe me VOTN dude been lloking too get back into work and education courses and £10ph is what i need approx to be comfy and survive with two kids rent bills etc etc so their is a real need to increase this pathetic min wage we now have it won't cover my living costs and kids
 
The other issue, of course, is the number of people willing to work off the books. While this happens the level of on the books wages is pressed down by the fact that it's cheaper to go off the books so why pay extra. Those then wishing to keep things above board have lityle to no leverage.


 
ClivetheVillan - 13/9/2014 15:21

Believe me VOTN dude been lloking too get back into work and education courses and £10ph is what i need approx to be comfy and survive with two kids rent bills etc etc so their is a real need to increase this pathetic min wage we now have it won't cover my living costs and kids
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You're misding my point Clive, £10 may or may not be the right figure now but as soon as it goes up tp £10 inflation will rise accordingly and £10 will no longer be enough. It's a continual cycle. Making the minimun a percentage of average means that there will automatically be an inflatio adjustment each year and that pay levels would adjust faurly compaired to the average person in the street. This also allows for the possible deflation that could occure in times of recession when average wages might drop along with prices.

 
I know what you mean VOTN dude, i would do the same tbh to survive, last place i worked at was working 65hours a week and was taking home £178 working 6 days a week, job before that picking up lease cars for the garage to MOT Service etc was £230 take home but 70 odd hours a week i never was home and when i worked out my hours i was on well below min wage this is why i am disiluisoned tbh with this country, pay the right wages so we can live thats all and i will shovel shit for it.
 
If you raise the minimum wage to £10 per hour, the cost of all goods and services will rise accordingly and your wages will be able to buy about what you can now. I've heard it said, (don't know how true it is) that there's enough on this earth for every man woman and child to live a very decent lifestyle, so until the gap between the haves and have nots is bridged, then nothing will really change.
KK, there's no way that there's only 0.001% benefits cheats. That equates to 1 in a 100,000 if my maths is right.
 
I am going tbh utv dude, i am not losing my home and taking a minimum wage job after being out of work for a few years, i am putting myself back into the work market as the docs am happy for me to sit on the sidelines while my eyes am not right, but i am bored shitless and can wear a contact lense so can see ok it plays up sometimes but i want to contribute but looking at the jobs its a joke, i may use the help back to work scheme as who will wmploy somebody like me lol even then its the wages that worry me, honestly this life is against those that want to contribute i swear on it lol
 
I don't blame you Clive. The system should look at someone on benefits that chooses to contribute more positively than it does. No way should you be penalised for it. If the govt is paying you let's say £1000 a month in rent, benefits etc, and you get a job on £750 a month, not only should they make the wages up to the £1000, but (for a period at least), give you a further incentive from the £750 they have saved. They'd still be £500 ish better off, multiply that by thousands of people and that's a decent sum.
 
I am booking an appointment to see where i would stand with this utv dude tbh, i ain't got a clue what help contribution i would get with a minimum wage job but surely there has got to be some help ffs lol, longs as it puts some food on the table for the kids and keeps the roof over their head thats all i need tbh, fingers crossed they will help me find something on these schemes in getting work placement or something, my mate said i will be better off going on a training course and getting qualified in something that pays better than taking any old job, so a lot to think about tbh, just gotta be careful i don't jump into the frying pan but i'll find something hopefully lol
 
ClivetheVillan - 13/9/2014 15:44

I know what you mean VOTN dude, i would do the same tbh to survive, last place i worked at was working 65hours a week and was taking home £178 working 6 days a week, job before that picking up lease cars for the garage to MOT Service etc was £230 take home but 70 odd hours a week i never was home and when i worked out my hours i was on well below min wage this is why i am disiluisoned tbh with this country, pay the right wages so we can live thats all and i will shovel shit for it.
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I know you think take home Clive but all rates of pay have to, by necessity, be total gross pay. Otherwise employers would be forced to pay people doing the same job different wages dues to their differing tax stuatuses. So to be honest, what you take home is only an issue for discussiins with the social IF you should need help.

A quick search tells me that the average UK wage is currently £26500 per year, which, for the aversge person on a regular tax code would give a take home pay of about £350 per week. Now to be an average there has to be people below that so although it seems unfair to those below it, were thay paid more the average would be higher and they would still be below it with inflation pushing prices higher leaving you in exactly the same situation as before.

A family man, with responsibilities, should reasonably expect to earn 80% of the average so to earn less than £280 take home is not really acceptable. Add to that that the law prohibits working more than 48 hours a week on a regular basis (shift work with time off in lui is the exception) then you should be looking at a take home hourly rate of around £5.85 or a gross pay of around £8.35 per hour. It may seem unfair but that is how averages work. Of course, this is only based on current figures and law and would change as the economy evolves.

That said, a normal working week is 37.5 hours. Assuming that we keep to that rather than the legal maximum working hours of 48 then you are looking at a gross hourly rate of about £10.70 so your figure of £10 is not too far off. Using a percentage tool, like I suggest, would actually give you more.

 
WOW Great in depth look that VOTN dude, i see what your saying, i know i am moaning lol but it ay just me to be fair that is struggling to find these liveable wage jobs, i think the notion of klearning something like Computer software programing or something in demand seems to be the way to getting better pay tbh, plus been told by my specialist i need a clean enviroment for my eyes so office work seems to only way to go, but cheers for that insight makes things seem clearer and why these things am the way they am, still looks the minimum wage is too low don't it dude.
 
Apologies! I checked out the figure as I had put it in wrong in % anyway. Don't know what I was thinking: Anyway the stats are around 0.07%, not what I said. Doh!
 

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Clive you can claim working tax credit, council benefits and council tax benefits if you are working, to top up your monies.

If you get sick now (re your eyes) you can go back to work for 16 hours a week and get help. Only on the sick you can work less hours and get make up. Otherwise it is 30 hours a week.

You said right, re getting an appointment with back to work. Thats the best way forward.
 
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