With the NHS such a lively topic at the moment. With all the political parties claiming to be the guardians of it and the question that Farage raised about treating health tourists, it would be good to get the opinions of you guys. So should we have an open door policy and treat everyone who comes here for free. Or should we say if you cant pay you cannot have treatment. Bearing in mind its being said that its in such a financial crisis we may have to start paying to see our GPs.
NHS
- Thread starter astonion
- Start date
Cheshire Villan
Vital 1st Team Regular
This could be lively!
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
The NHS is a massive pie being carved up by the fat cats. Just like so many other great British achievements, it will be marveled at by future generations wondering how things went so badly wrong.
kefkat
Vital Football Legend
I doubt my view will be very popular however here goes. When Nye Bevan created the NHS in 1948, he nor anyone could have envisaged how far medical science would go. That through that also people would be living longer and recovering from treatments they once wouldn't have.
Simply put if you stopped all people being treated here from abroad unless they had medical insurance there still wouldn't be enough money in the system. The NHS is a bottomless pit and all the cash in the world would never be enough.
Granted there is wasted that needs to be sorted also, in admin and medical use. We need a government who have enough courage to say outright this message, rip the way it was up and start again with a better system. No government will dare do it, so it always be the same.
The same as prescriptions; people moan they are so expensive, yet they are not. what you would actually pay for the medication if you paid in full for the majority means what we pay is a fraction of the cost. Cost of medication would be as high as what you pay at the vets for meds.
It is all well subsidized. I am not saying I have full radical plan for The NHS. I don't. I am just pointing out some of the pitfalls we have with a free NHS.
Certainly tourists should have to have insurance before they come here. Indeed I expect most do.
This link gives more information on who can or cant get free medical care here
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nireland/healthcare_ni/healthcare_help_with_health_costs_e/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm
Simply put if you stopped all people being treated here from abroad unless they had medical insurance there still wouldn't be enough money in the system. The NHS is a bottomless pit and all the cash in the world would never be enough.
Granted there is wasted that needs to be sorted also, in admin and medical use. We need a government who have enough courage to say outright this message, rip the way it was up and start again with a better system. No government will dare do it, so it always be the same.
The same as prescriptions; people moan they are so expensive, yet they are not. what you would actually pay for the medication if you paid in full for the majority means what we pay is a fraction of the cost. Cost of medication would be as high as what you pay at the vets for meds.
It is all well subsidized. I am not saying I have full radical plan for The NHS. I don't. I am just pointing out some of the pitfalls we have with a free NHS.
Certainly tourists should have to have insurance before they come here. Indeed I expect most do.
This link gives more information on who can or cant get free medical care here
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nireland/healthcare_ni/healthcare_help_with_health_costs_e/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm
Pride of Lions
I am now official
I agree with a fair amount of what you say Kefkat.
I will add my penneth by saying I think these 'health tourists' should pay.... fine if they have medical insurance. I know for a fact that here in Indonesia, if you see a doctor (GP), you pay. If you need treatment in a hospital, you pay.
So, coming back to what Kefkat says, there are pitfalls in a free NHS and they will continue with whichever party is in government for the reasons Kefkat has pointed out.
I will add my penneth by saying I think these 'health tourists' should pay.... fine if they have medical insurance. I know for a fact that here in Indonesia, if you see a doctor (GP), you pay. If you need treatment in a hospital, you pay.
So, coming back to what Kefkat says, there are pitfalls in a free NHS and they will continue with whichever party is in government for the reasons Kefkat has pointed out.
HeathfieldRoad1874
Miserable Sod
It might be a surprise to you KK, but I tend to agree.
The story on NHS tourism covers a much greater problem. The savings it would make would be miniscule compared to what is needed.
For a start, fine people for calling an Ambulance when they don't need one, and give the crews the power to refuse taking them to Hospital. Next, fine people in A&E who shouldn't be there. You wouldn't believe the sorts of things people go with.
Get rid of most of the Middle Management, and we're half way to sorting it out.
Finally, draw a line. Emergency care is one thing, but going to your Doctor with a cold is just plain stupid. In the days of Google, try and visit your Pharmacist first.
I know it's not quite as simple as this, but it's a start!!!
The story on NHS tourism covers a much greater problem. The savings it would make would be miniscule compared to what is needed.
For a start, fine people for calling an Ambulance when they don't need one, and give the crews the power to refuse taking them to Hospital. Next, fine people in A&E who shouldn't be there. You wouldn't believe the sorts of things people go with.
Get rid of most of the Middle Management, and we're half way to sorting it out.
Finally, draw a line. Emergency care is one thing, but going to your Doctor with a cold is just plain stupid. In the days of Google, try and visit your Pharmacist first.
I know it's not quite as simple as this, but it's a start!!!
upthevilla
Vital 1st Team Regular
It's not just health tourists, but I do think their governments should pay whether from the aid we give, insurance, or whatever.
I think cosmetic procedures on the NHS need to be re- thought. That slapper getting her boobs done a case in point. There should be a hierarchy of illnesses, and irrespective of postcode or whatever, the money available should filter down.
Not sure where I stand on things like sex changes etc. part of me thinks not on the NHS, but then again unless you're living it, it's hard to be able to even think what it must be like.
My sister who used to be an NHS dentist was telling me all sorts about how staff had been off sick for years on almost full pay, and by years, I literally mean years. This is costing the NHS a shed load.
I think cosmetic procedures on the NHS need to be re- thought. That slapper getting her boobs done a case in point. There should be a hierarchy of illnesses, and irrespective of postcode or whatever, the money available should filter down.
Not sure where I stand on things like sex changes etc. part of me thinks not on the NHS, but then again unless you're living it, it's hard to be able to even think what it must be like.
My sister who used to be an NHS dentist was telling me all sorts about how staff had been off sick for years on almost full pay, and by years, I literally mean years. This is costing the NHS a shed load.
Lord Ron Saunders
Vital 1st Team Regular
whats with this free NHS ? I'm retired, all my working life I paid in, 50 years of contributions. It makes me mad when I hear of people coming here for treatment. Anybody coming to this country wanting any treatment, ship them straight back, better still make them have a medical before they come here. Nye Bevan created something that is admired the world over, he did this for British people, not for people wanting freebies from the rest of the world.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Nearly killed me with their corruption so I've paid in more ways than one.
It's a disgusting black hole and as said, corrupt because whenever they make mistakes they circle the wagons and lie.
I've a few shocking folders of files (sent to me anonymously after the statute of limitations) to illustrate my case, which is a pebble in the water to the whole farce.
It should be reformed and De politicised.
Apparently we have the right to claim back money from a lot of foreign users and don't claim nearly enough. Other countries do. Not the foreigners fault, just poor governance.
I don't buy into this health tourist scare stories, sure some come over, good luck to them, I've also read a good few times recently, especially on facebook, that the wards are full of immigrants.
Not in my experience and I've done the rounds of many hospitals in Brum and the crappy badly managed bullying (by management) redditch hospital.
Should there be charges to non UK people? Yes, we have to have health insurance when we go abroad, so I don't see the difference for them. I'd hate to be a country like USA who turn away people who are ill just because they don't have the money though.
The amount of waste in the NHS (and in the country) is astonishing.
It's a disgusting black hole and as said, corrupt because whenever they make mistakes they circle the wagons and lie.
I've a few shocking folders of files (sent to me anonymously after the statute of limitations) to illustrate my case, which is a pebble in the water to the whole farce.
It should be reformed and De politicised.
Apparently we have the right to claim back money from a lot of foreign users and don't claim nearly enough. Other countries do. Not the foreigners fault, just poor governance.
I don't buy into this health tourist scare stories, sure some come over, good luck to them, I've also read a good few times recently, especially on facebook, that the wards are full of immigrants.
Not in my experience and I've done the rounds of many hospitals in Brum and the crappy badly managed bullying (by management) redditch hospital.
Should there be charges to non UK people? Yes, we have to have health insurance when we go abroad, so I don't see the difference for them. I'd hate to be a country like USA who turn away people who are ill just because they don't have the money though.
The amount of waste in the NHS (and in the country) is astonishing.
G
Guest
Guest
26mins 40 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=130&v=3XKq9-cal7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=130&v=3XKq9-cal7k
kefkat
Vital Football Legend
Work it out Lord Ron: I don't know if you have had to have anything major done with The NHS, however taking that and pensions alone and work out roughly how much you have paid over your working life.
You will find it comes no where near what you have paid in what you will get back.
How do I know? When my late Mom was alive in 1996 when she was diagnosis with cancer of the bladder, we were told in general chit chat how much her operation had cost, put on the top of that post treatment, yearly scans on her kidneys to make sure everything was working properly and the lifetime of free stoma bags and care, then we took a rough of what Mom and Dad put into the system. They both worked all there lives. They were both professionals.
What it cost the NHS did not cover what they had paid in. Then you got on top all other NHS care (Mom lived another 14 years and had dementia) her pensions and so on.
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Surprisingly, thinking about it no I am not surprised you agree with me Heath. Your a numbers man. I would have expected you to rip it apart or support what I said. I didn't think you would have a view in the middle.
I am used to people looking at me gone out when I 1st say it until I explain it.
We may all come from different viewpoints on certain matters however certain things I think are pretty straightforward thinking.
kefkat
Vital Football Legend
Looking back again over what you said, yes re charging for A & E. They always used to bill for ambulance use. I remember my Mom having a bill when I was in a nasty accident when I was 17. I don't know if that is still in place or not bothered with, like the chasing up of the monies from the countries of foreigners who use our NHS.
Totally agree re things like cold. Our practice do have a good system they should all bring in mind. If you want an emergency appointment that day you speak to a nurse first to access the situation.
Sometimes they arrange for a Dr to call back and if it is straightforward they will print off the script to be collected from the reception, or in our case, the attached chemist.
Too much waste is a big part of it too. I remember some nursing friends going back to the 90's saying about all the waste medically and admin so it has always been a growing problem
Our Dr's are cutting edge with being up to date. Thats why they medical group is the most popular in York. They do text reminders for appointments (amazing how many still don't do that) You can book appointments online. They do the call back services and text services for results (unless it is anything bad)
They are also looking at bringing Skype appointments in. Ofcourse not everyone will want to use that or have it. At least the opportunities are there
HeathfieldRoad1874
Miserable Sod
Labour talking some sense today. Employ 20,000 new Nurses, and try harder to retain the ones we've got. One of the major problems we have is that we use Agency Nurses far too much to maintain staffing levels. It costs a fortune compared to an NHS nurse, and there's no continuity.
The NHS is nothing without it's staff. Treat them better, or we'll continue to lose them. Speak to any one of them on how the Tories have treated them. It's appalling what they are expecting them to do.
The NHS is nothing without it's staff. Treat them better, or we'll continue to lose them. Speak to any one of them on how the Tories have treated them. It's appalling what they are expecting them to do.
Lord Ron Saunders
Vital 1st Team Regular
The NHS was created for the British people, paid for by contributions and tax ( Check the details of how the funding for this was given to parliament, Hansard 1947) It cant be all that bad when other countrys try and copy it. If and I know it wont happen, but if it was only used by British people and not just anyone who comes to our great country then its finances would change.
To say if you have any treatment on the NHS then you use up all your contributions is a bit much, after all this is a welfare state, paid for by the British tax payer.
HeathfieldRoad1874
Miserable Sod
I think you have been misfed information, Lord Ron. Only British citizens can get free treatment.
http://www.nhs.uk/nhsengland/aboutnhsservices/uk-visitors/pages/accessing-nhs-services.aspx
Non-UK residents will also be charged for hospital treatments. If you are an overseas visitor to the UK you may be charged for some treatments and, depending on how urgent it is, you will usually have to pay in advance.
http://www.nhs.uk/nhsengland/aboutnhsservices/uk-visitors/pages/accessing-nhs-services.aspx
Non-UK residents will also be charged for hospital treatments. If you are an overseas visitor to the UK you may be charged for some treatments and, depending on how urgent it is, you will usually have to pay in advance.
col8
Vital Football Legend
I wont get anything free on the NHS, no eye care, no dental and I doubt by the time I reach 66 Prescribed drugs will have to be paid for too. Currently paying a shit load of tax on my wage and now pension.
It pisses me off that the time I will need the NHS nothing will be available because the Tories have privatised it to the highest bidder, Labour have bankrupt the country and its gone bust chasing meaningless targets set by ministers who really don't have a fucking clue.
It pisses me off that the time I will need the NHS nothing will be available because the Tories have privatised it to the highest bidder, Labour have bankrupt the country and its gone bust chasing meaningless targets set by ministers who really don't have a fucking clue.
Sometime ago I watched a documentary and they interviewed a doctor at a London hospital. When asked the question would you treat someone who could not afford to pay, he said of course, thats what we do. He also said what if someone turned up with a contaigous disease, would you refuse to treat them and send them away to then infect the wider public, would cost less just to treat that one person than have untold numbers. It also said that some pregnant women would come here on holiday so they give birth here because it would be free and also this country is one of the best places in the world to give birth. Again they wont deny them help. Can you imagine a hospital refusing to help a woman giving birth, then she goes out a has it on the street, has complications and dies. The outcry would be enormous. Dont know how to deal with it really.
