NEW THREAD FOR ALL THINGS TAKEOVER | Page 326 | Vital Football

NEW THREAD FOR ALL THINGS TAKEOVER

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To me this feels something like both clubs will double their players and resources overnight. Short term and long term loans etc. Warm weather training. Who knows five decent loan players in desperate need of match time may be there ready and waiting just as soon as some pen pusher in an office in Preston pulls their finger out of their arse.
 
Really good thinking from Jay Whittle getting someone outside of the Wigan bubble who is familiar with Moreno to give a perspective.

It isn't a sexy or exciting way to run a club but it sounds pragmatic and sensible and probably the type of model most new owners would be looking to use due to lack of money and salary cap in L1. I think Ganaye probably would've ran the club like that based on what he's been doing elsewhere. I had read about Leganes back at the start and they sounded like a well run club but better to hear that reaffirmed.

I don't think any of that would've put Nandy and the SC off - and the fact Nandy said they were going to be 'unsustainable' doesn't sound like she was given the same pitch.

My issue has never been what Moreno did at Leganes or him repeating that here as I think that is fine. But there has been something off about this throughout, there seems like something we don't know that no one is willing to say and admins response makes me more suspicious.

I think the SC, Nandy, council or anyone else could really do with shooting straight with us if they have an issue. I'm not asking for all of the details but surely we are at the part of the process where we say 'if anyone has any reason why they should not be joined together in ownership speak now'. We've not had word from any of them since they pretty much said they wanted to move onto the next bidder - since that doesn't appear to be happening it's probably worth saying something.

I'm frustrated feeling like there is an elephant in the room. Moreno should be on paper a good owner but it feels like those in the know don't believe so for some reason. I think we've been very patient as a whole and given everyone time and space but we really could do with some info. If they geuinely think the Spanish are not right there won't be much point saying 'we knew that was going to happen' if something goes wrong 6 months down the line they need to say something now. I understand it might be tricky to say too much with NDAs but I'm certain they could carefully say something that isn't that specific but reflects any overall concerns.
 
I’ve just had a listen Arthur.

I’m still none the wiser why he wants to buy us or what he hopes to gain out of it. Says Moreno is a Leganes fan, so his priorities will lay with them, understandably. Mine would be with us if I owned both clubs. Given that I fail to see why he would invest money in us when he could use it on them. Is his plan to make us their feeder club? Can there be some shared costs owning two clubs in sepetate countries, particularly in light of the fact we’ve left the EU? Maybe, but I’m not entirely sure how much.

Seems the fans have an issue with him flogging all their strikers and not replacing them. Something I’m sure we can all have empathise with.

I really don’t get the repeated comments he made about surrounding himself with the right people. He’s just got into bed with three individuals who had to drop out of the group as they weren’t fit. I got the impression he won’t be hands on so begs the question who will be. I suspect this christo chap will raise his ugly head again in some capacity.

If you want some positives then his marketing initiatives encourage me. Undoubtedly we don’t get the commercial revenue we can, so this should be an easy win for him.

That said we are Wigan not Leganes so it difficult to say he’ll replicate the success here. From what I understand about the points I’ve previously raised then I’ve still major concerns and have more questions than answers. I haven’t changed my mind and personally hope they don’t get the club, but accept it’s highly likely they will sadly.
 
It may have been discussed earlier but I just heard this clip

What Stanley said about Cristo being a minor player, only an advisor, not set to be an owner or a director and only contributing a small part of the money does not reflect what we know. He was the figure head so not minor, he was registered as being on the board, he was contributing about a third of the money so he clearly was going to be a major contributor and owner and if he wasnt why would he need to take the test? The fact that him being rejected has resulted in 3 directors being removed suggests strongly he was a significant part of it all. Why not be straight with us, why try and downplay what happened if we are ok now?

I don't trust admin from how they've handled this whole thing so far and this statement makes me more nervous rather than less as it sounds like pure spin when I was under the impression no spin would be needed.

Also worth noting they said 90% of the problems solved - so what is the remains 10% but I thought Cristo was the only issue.
 
It may have been discussed earlier but I just heard this clip

What Stanley said about Cristo being a minor player, only an advisor, not set to be an owner or a director and only contributing a small part of the money does not reflect what we know. He was the figure head so not minor, he was registered as being on the board, he was contributing about a third of the money so he clearly was going to be a major contributor and owner and if he wasnt why would he need to take the test? The fact that him being rejected has resulted in 3 directors being removed suggests strongly he was a significant part of it all. Why not be straight with us, why try and downplay what happened if we are ok now?

I don't trust admin from how they've handled this whole thing so far and this statement makes me more nervous rather than less as it sounds like pure spin when I was under the impression no spin would be needed.

Also worth noting they said 90% of the problems solved - so what is the remains 10% but I thought Cristo was the only issue.

I found them comments extremely strange myself, but I have become accustomed to these admins making stupid comments. Ever since both Stanley and Krasner end up saying contradictory things.
 
I mentioned it yesterday King. As I said I wouldn’t trust these clowns as far as I could throw them and don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. Sadly there are many who do believe him. He’s obviously trying to downplay everything to protect their reputation I suspect. Whatever the outstanding issues are it’s more than finding a missing million as he alluded to last week I’m sure.
 
I’ve just had a listen Arthur.

I’m still none the wiser why he wants to buy us or what he hopes to gain out of it. Says Moreno is a Leganes fan, so his priorities will lay with them, understandably. Mine would be with us if I owned both clubs. Given that I fail to see why he would invest money in us when he could use it on them. Is his plan to make us their feeder club? Can there be some shared costs owning two clubs in sepetate countries, particularly in light of the fact we’ve left the EU? Maybe, but I’m not entirely sure how much.

Seems the fans have an issue with him flogging all their strikers and not replacing them. Something I’m sure we can all have empathise with.

I really don’t get the repeated comments he made about surrounding himself with the right people. He’s just got into bed with three individuals who had to drop out of the group as they weren’t fit. I got the impression he won’t be hands on so begs the question who will be. I suspect this christo chap will raise his ugly head again in some capacity.

If you want some positives then his marketing initiatives encourage me. Undoubtedly we don’t get the commercial revenue we can, so this should be an easy win for him.

That said we are Wigan not Leganes so it difficult to say he’ll replicate the success here. From what I understand about the points I’ve previously raised then I’ve still major concerns and have more questions than answers. I haven’t changed my mind and personally hope they don’t get the club, but accept it’s highly likely they will sadly.

Those were the points I thought you'd pick up on MiW, plus the bit where the guy had said Moreno promised some funding but it didn't materialise, which would resonate with your general concerns around his ability to provide the necessary finance. I also thought you might have picked up on the apparent desire for outside funding from Mbuzz that didn't seem to work out either.

For me, he seems like a bloke with his heart in the right place, he has a football background, he's shrewd and has a proven model for success at a club similar to ours, I'm still in support of him as an owner, but I do share some nagging concerns around his priority if it came down to a decision between Leganes and us and his ability to fund both clubs simultaneously.
 
....
I'm frustrated feeling like there is an elephant in the room. Moreno should be on paper a good owner but it feels like those in the know don't believe so for some reason. I think we've been very patient as a whole and given everyone time and space but we really could do with some info. If they geuinely think the Spanish are not right there won't be much point saying 'we knew that was going to happen' if something goes wrong 6 months down the line they need to say something now. I understand it might be tricky to say too much with NDAs but I'm certain they could carefully say something that isn't that specific but reflects any overall concerns.

I'm very confused as to why the majority of people seem to have interpreted the SC statement from the other week as relief that the Spanish bid was not successful, I've re read it a number of times and it seems to me their relief was with the EFL finally making a bloody decision, irrespective of whether that was accept or reject, not specifically the fact that it was not approved, but now lots of you are saying the SC "know something dodgy about the Spanish". I just can't buy into that interpretation at all.
 
I'm very confused as to why the majority of people seem to have interpreted the SC statement from the other week as relief that the Spanish bid was not successful, I've re read it a number of times and it seems to me their relief was with the EFL finally making a bloody decision, irrespective of whether that was accept or reject, not specifically the fact that it was not approved, but now lots of you are saying the SC "know something dodgy about the Spanish". I just can't buy into that interpretation at all.

If they were happy with the Spanish and knew the deal was still possible if reconfigured without Cristo (like Nixon and admin said) - why would their statement be saying let's move onto the next bidder rather than they are hopeful the deal can still be passed?

If they thought the Spanish were great surely their statement would be one of support and encouragement to persist rather than let's try someone else?
 
My take on the ownership issue is that you have one guy who owns his home town team, good guy, got them to la liga for a few seasons etc. He has an interest in making money and feels with his "formula" he could make a go of it with Wigan. Doesn't seem like a big spender, likely would want to leverage existing infrastructure and keep Wigan Athletic admin small to save on expenses.

Cristo is someone who has experience of buying Spanish teams who are in trouble stabilizing them and then flogging them on. He knows he has reputation issues and therefore he had his brother front the company (as per companies house), EFL has unravelled it all and realised that he would play a bigger part and therefore they didnt want to proceed on that basis.

In regards to questions I have:
- Why buy Wigan?
My thoughts are we've proven we can capture great youth and have a system in place that's working (or was working). They are a selling club, we are a selling club. Benefits would appear to be that they can have the same template that they have, and having a team that's higher in the respective league within a country means there is flexibility of one being a feeder team to the other. More on that with Clilverd.

- Why was Cristo needed?
Partial answer I have in my head is that buying Wigan is more about opportunity and making money. Does Moreno have time to run his business and be involved with the Spanish club and run Wigan? Probably not. If he involved a guy who's stabilized and flipped clubs does it make sense for him to be involved? Probably. I also think if you have someone as an investor, short term at least, you can get away with not having to pay the big CEO/MD wages (as long as its in the contract). He could have been the blunt object to get us stabilized and low running costs, then implementing the strategy and knowing that because we are low cost, if they want to cash out at any point there are people that want us. Although he's seen as dubious I can see why someone may want him around.

- Has Clilverd always been in the background?
I believe so, he's a sales/marketing guy. His linked suggest he wanted to get involved in a league one/two team and match investors up. The statement is "They have a very good track record in Europe and their strategy is financially prudent and sustainable. If you are looking for sound investment, please contact me, if you are after a 'sugar daddy' don't bother."

Looking at his profile something jumps out at me:
"I am working for the club on their Emirates FA Cup 3rd round tie v Leicester City on 6/1/19 live on BBC1 at 4:30pm, with an estimated audience of 5m.
In order to maximise commercial return the club will install a full TV arc LED system and can offer a number of sponsorship and pitchside advertising packages. Please contact me for more information. Season’s Greetings", further back in his profile he's involved in LED stadia signs and sponsorship. Means he's dipped his toe in, knows the landscape of trying to maximise match day income and should be someone good to have on our team. I personally think this (and advertising outside of the traditional Wigan borders) is something we've been missing.

- Why EFL rejected the bid vs Choi bid?
It seems that when a European buys a club they get investigated and from outside they get the benefit of the doubt. That's likely now changed.

- Will we be safe being bought by any of the current 3 "bidders"?
The Spanish bid seem to have a football template they want to instil, but were lax on the business side. That's a little worrying, but the only other options we have are the Asian consortium (See EFL and none European bids) or seemingly trusting the Royles again.

With a few parties actually being interested in us over this time period they'll have likely spent money making plans around how they'd run us. For the future that may not be a bad thing.

The American bid seemed to be serious, had serious money behind it, but due to that they wanted it for a very low amount. In addition to that they seemed to have serious issues with the admin. Will they be around if things go wrong? Maybe they have a few different clubs and we may fit into that in the future.

The new Asian consortium. Personally I think they'd make more money building the hospitals and infrastructure projects and not owning the club doesn't stop that. If they don't do anything because they don't own the club that'd be a red flag.

Royle's new bid. He had his chance and blew it, time for the club to move on to a new way of running, new ideas and trying new things. Im guessing he'll still be lurking around if the new owners needed to sell ASAP.

- The Stadium issue, does it matter?
Looking at the deal the warriors have we'd need a strong owner who cares about profit to sort that situation out. We know that if they owned the stadium it would be unlikely we'd get such a good deal and for long periods of time we'd be playing on a pitch not worthy of football. Having a club still in existence and owning our stadium seems to be the way we need to go.

- Is the situation of the bid ideal and are there issues?
Its not an ideal situation, it never would have been. The admins have been playing hard ball and seem to be running out the clock to increase their output. Add in they gutted our players means it wouldn't be a club someone could pick up and find themselves back in the championship next year. We don't seem to have stupidly wealthy Wigan fans right now and therefore we are on a bumpy road until that happens or someone with a plan owns us and gets us running efficiently.

Unfortunately at this point we have a club that wasn't well run for a long time, I dont think we properly adapt from having Whelans backing and we suffered because of it. The SC seems to have its heart in the right place (document they filed with companies house), but have been found hugely lacking in anything else they've done. As a group of fans we've not really needed organisation, we each take some blame for what has happened, but as long as we stick around long enough for current issues to be sorted we've "done our job".
 
Really good thinking from Jay Whittle getting someone outside of the Wigan bubble who is familiar with Moreno to give a perspective.

It isn't a sexy or exciting way to run a club but it sounds pragmatic and sensible and probably the type of model most new owners would be looking to use due to lack of money and salary cap in L1. I think Ganaye probably would've ran the club like that based on what he's been doing elsewhere. I had read about Leganes back at the start and they sounded like a well run club but better to hear that reaffirmed.

I don't think any of that would've put Nandy and the SC off - and the fact Nandy said they were going to be 'unsustainable' doesn't sound like she was given the same pitch.

My issue has never been what Moreno did at Leganes or him repeating that here as I think that is fine. But there has been something off about this throughout, there seems like something we don't know that no one is willing to say and admins response makes me more suspicious.

I think the SC, Nandy, council or anyone else could really do with shooting straight with us if they have an issue. I'm not asking for all of the details but surely we are at the part of the process where we say 'if anyone has any reason why they should not be joined together in ownership speak now'. We've not had word from any of them since they pretty much said they wanted to move onto the next bidder - since that doesn't appear to be happening it's probably worth saying something.

I'm frustrated feeling like there is an elephant in the room. Moreno should be on paper a good owner but it feels like those in the know don't believe so for some reason. I think we've been very patient as a whole and given everyone time and space but we really could do with some info. If they geuinely think the Spanish are not right there won't be much point saying 'we knew that was going to happen' if something goes wrong 6 months down the line they need to say something now. I understand it might be tricky to say too much with NDAs but I'm certain they could c
It may have been discussed earlier but I just heard this clip

What Stanley said about Cristo being a minor player, only an advisor, not set to be an owner or a director and only contributing a small part of the money does not reflect what we know. He was the figure head so not minor, he was registered as being on the board, he was contributing about a third of the money so he clearly was going to be a major contributor and owner and if he wasnt why would he need to take the test? The fact that him being rejected has resulted in 3 directors being removed suggests strongly he was a significant part of it all. Why not be straight with us, why try and downplay what happened if we are ok now?

I don't trust admin from how they've handled this whole thing so far and this statement makes me more nervous rather than less as it sounds like pure spin when I was under the impression no spin would be needed.

Also worth noting they said 90% of the problems solved - so what is the remains 10% but I thought Cristo was the only issue.

Hearing that interview could we all be making the wrong assumption that it was Cristo who was rejected?

Perhaps it was his brother.
 
Hearing that interview could we all be making the wrong assumption that it was Cristo who was rejected?

Perhaps it was his brother.

Nixon said it was Jose. Both Cristos were down as directors too and I believe Stanley confirmed it was 1m he was putting in - so he's contradicting his previous statement. I think if it was Papadopaulo failing then Jose being the front man would've most likely stayed on with his accountant without him - but without Jose the other 2 have gone with him.
 
Nixon just posted on twitter that there are "no red flags" with latest Spanish bid and should be passed by EFL on Thursday (unfortunately didn't confirm which Thursday)
Wonder if Andy Holts intervention yesterday has had an effect on either the EFL and / or the admins ?
 
Nixon just posted on twitter that there are "no red flags" with latest Spanish bid and should be passed by EFL on Thursday (unfortunately didn't confirm which Thursday)
Wonder if Andy Holts intervention yesterday has had an effect on either the EFL and / or the admins ?

Just seen that, it was in response to a tweet saying they’ve had 5 previous cash flow forecasts rejected. He didn’t deny that was the case. As I’ve previously said they intend to invest the bare minimum in the club so it’s little wonder they keep getting rejected. Yet some are still salivating over the Spanish judging by some of the replies to the initial tweeter. Barmy.
 
Just seen that, it was in response to a tweet saying they’ve had 5 previous cash flow forecasts rejected. He didn’t deny that was the case. As I’ve previously said they intend to invest the bare minimum in the club so it’s little wonder they keep getting rejected. Yet some are still salivating over the Spanish judging by some of the replies to the initial tweeter. Barmy.
Not surprising they've had to keep amending cashflow- covid lockdown, tier 3 and no fans, admins selling owt that's not nailed down - (chairs now 😉). Plus they've filled a £1m hole in a week - not sure anything is astray - would be more concerned if they were not flexing the cash flow projections based on material changes, businesses do this weekly.
 
Just seen that, it was in response to a tweet saying they’ve had 5 previous cash flow forecasts rejected. He didn’t deny that was the case. As I’ve previously said they intend to invest the bare minimum in the club so it’s little wonder they keep getting rejected. Yet some are still salivating over the Spanish judging by some of the replies to the initial tweeter. Barmy.

(Walgarth)John often asks, "why would anyone want to buy us", and the only answer I've given is that we have a potential little gold mine with our academy.

I know the rumours about the Spanish intentions to run down the academy (which is in total contradiction to their stated aims), but however much I might concede there's no smoke with out fire, it just doesn't make sense.

If you're looking to buy a club, why on earth would you intend to cut off the element of it which, at worst, will hopefully provide half the first XI going forward, and at best, will fund the progression of the club into the Championship ....... and maybe beyond. (......and nope......... the only grapes to have passed my lips were in my fruit salad after tea !).
 
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