Mixed feelings

LyttleByLyttle - 12/1/2017 17:36

In the last 25 league games of that season under Cotterill we conceded 27 goals.

In the first 25 league games of this season we have conceded 45 goals.

Says a lot about Montanier in context of the discussion on this thread.
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Yes but if we'd only conceded 30 we'd have won more games.
 
I assume once the takeover is complete Woanz and PVH will cease the self imposed 15 year boycott of the City Ground?
 
Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 16:55

12 of the squad that played the first Fawaz season were already at the club (not counting Geddy)

End of the season we were far from the shambles we currently are. We had a strong management team and were strong on the pitch as well

It's inevitable that we were losing players end of that season as the estate were selling the club and not renewing contracts

Carrying out a communicated plan to sell the club

It was never down to the estate to build a squad for new owners

You want to call it a shambles but the squad Fawaz took over was short or players as a direct result of a planned sale

And the fact is even with our owner sadly passed away the estate and FC managing the club we were run far more professionally on and off the pitch than now

We ain't ending this season with 25 points from 16 games and 10 points clear of relegation UNLESS we get new owners

There is only one way this season is going if Fawaz stays in charge

This is a shambles

That season ended being a success based on the horrible circumstances

Shit situation, no money to invest due to selling the club, made worse by Doughtys death but managed professionally by FC and the estate and MA with difficult but correct decisons made at the right times to avoid relegation pre takeover

That's not a shambles. That's a bad scenario managed as well as could be expected

This season is a bad situation managed shambolically
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Fawaz is a wa**er Fawaz is a wa**er Fawaz is a wa**er Fawaz is a wa**er Fawaz is a wa**er Fawaz is a wa**er Fawaz is a wa**er

Right now we have that out the way for the umpteenth time Fawaz took over mid July

Camp (26) Moose (6) Cohen (36) Mcgugan (13) Reid (40) Greening (0) McGoldrick (0) Moloney (7) Tuday (0) Blackstock (21) Raddy (21)

Theres your squad and its contribution in terms of starts

If you genuinely believe that above list eclipses what we have now then we can simply agree to disagree
 
Darlow played 20 plus games, Lascelles played 3 games which you've forgotten

Geddy played 32 - you at least have to credit the shambles of the estate and FC etc for finding him and bringing in even if you don't want to credit them for him being back with us the following season bought with the Gunter money that Fawaz got first month in the role

Dont forget also that Gunter was also still part of the club that Fawaz inherited. Although sold in a deal Fawaz couldn't avoid. He got that money though it's in his first year accounts despite the fact Jom spent 18 months claiming he didn't. Til the accounts were published

The Gunter money paid for geddy with loads to spare

You describe the way the estate and FC handled that season as a shambles?

I don't get it

What could they have done differently in that situation

Doughty gave two years notice of no more new contracts and only honouring existing obligations until a sale was made

They followed it through. They even twisted those rules to create money by selling Morgan and bamford and bringing in loans and SOD etc

Which helped get that season safe for us

The estate and FC did what they had to do to get the club through that time tbh

It wasn't a shambles it was a managed takeover that they did the best they could with

I can't see what they could have done differently in those circumstances tbh

And you are the one that wants to lower doughty to Fawaz level all the time

I just can't accept that

Chalk and cheese imo
 
forestonourwayback - 12/1/2017 16:15

paplane - 12/1/2017 12:59

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 12:50

Fook me paplane you reckon our current defence is better than that one (which I admit was only average)?

I would take any back 5 we've put out in the last 40 years ahead of what we have now with or without a manager

Get real mate!
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:27:

I've got a problem at left back due to the Pinillos injury and Fox (generally!), but Hobbs, Mills, Manc & Lichaj - nothing wrong with them as individual players. What's wrong at the moment is that they're not organised. Those players in the Dougie team were solid last year. That's why I'm confident that Rowett can get us safe.
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I'm with you on this one Paplane. The current four of Lichaj, Mills, Hobbs, Mancienne is more than decent, and better than in early 2012, but this season we have lacked consistency (of selection) and organisation. They have not been managed well.

Add to that, the Championship today is a far higher standard than 5 years ago, with so many clubs having parachute payments and investing so heavily in squads. In the Championship, if you stand still as a team, you actually go backwards!
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2012/13 our back 6 more or less were

Camp - runner up previous season fans player of the year
Chambers fans player of the year previous season
Gunter third in player of year that season
Lynch runner up player of the year that season
Morgan - a rock who we sold to honour debts and allow loans and sod into the club
Elokobi who helped boost the team january

The defence was a solid part of the team

People have clouded memories

They forget lynch did a great job for us when needed

Chambers lost the fans of course because he ran his contract down like Lansbury has just done

At least he saw his contract out and carried on playing til the end
 
Mark of the players we have now who are you happy to move forward with

Be honest and fair?

Can't see where you see the quality tbh

Even Britt is suspect right now

If you get to ten names I will be surprised
 
Nigel said that he wanted the club to start balancing the books because of FFP. He was slaughtered because of it. He made it quite clear what he would do and would not do.

The club was never going to go into administration - Nigel and the family would never have allowed that to happen

Forest have been haemorrhaging money for decades, Nigel wanted to stop that happening and for it to move forward. Fawaz dragged it back 20 years
 
Realblustone - 12/1/2017 18:03

I assume once the takeover is complete Woanz and PVH will cease the self imposed 15 year boycott of the City Ground?
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The owd FANTASIST nice to see like your mates you have zero grasp of reality & the truth. I'll be back first game but JP passed away after a short battle with aids. We had a minute of flatulence in his honour it was a touching ceremony.
 
Yep not only did doughty say what he was going to do to make a sale happen but he gave two years notice

Nobody argued with the decision or why he made it

In fact they welcomed it

What he said was going to happen then got delivered

Fawaz came in everyone got excited and look what fookin happened

He made promises and never delivered any of them

 
Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 19:51

Yep not only did doughty say what he was going to do to make a sale happen but he gave two years notice

Nobody argued with the decision or why he made it

In fact they welcomed it

What he said was going to happen then got delivered

Fawaz came in everyone got excited and look what fookin happened

He made promises and never delivered any of them
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After Mclaren left ND said he would honour contracts up to this point but the club would have to honour everything beyond that which meant we had to sell to raise funds to bring in loans to shake the squad up a bit, at anytime he could easily have allowed Morgan and Bamford to stay and finance that shake up, but at which point enough was enough for him not a penny more.

Somewhere in the not to recent past Fawaz did the same this time it cost us Burke

I know you are going to find this difficult Jimmy as you are going to want absolute condemnation but sadly the facts are he will leave us with the same debts he arrived with, no better no worse ground a slightly better squad and a similar league position

The only thing he will get thrown at him that will stick will be the administration side and within a day or two a new manager will arrive, new signings will arrive and no damage will be done there and likewise locally any damage will be repaired as quickly as the celebrations last as he gets ran out of town

Of course as you rightly keep mentioning if JJM can buy the Padres at $80m and then sell at $800m then he must be doing something right but be careful with that one Jimmy Fawaz bought at £20m and sold 80% at £50m, has he done something right?
 
Mark2310 - 12/1/2017 22:06

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 19:51

Yep not only did doughty say what he was going to do to make a sale happen but he gave two years notice

Nobody argued with the decision or why he made it

In fact they welcomed it

What he said was going to happen then got delivered

Fawaz came in everyone got excited and look what fookin happened

He made promises and never delivered any of them
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After Mclaren left ND said he would honour contracts up to this point but the club would have to honour everything beyond that which meant we had to sell to raise funds to bring in loans to shake the squad up a bit, at anytime he could easily have allowed Morgan and Bamford to stay and finance that shake up, but at which point enough was enough for him not a penny more.

Somewhere in the not to recent past Fawaz did the same this time it cost us Burke

I know you are going to find this difficult Jimmy as you are going to want absolute condemnation but sadly the facts are he will leave us with the same debts he arrived with, no better no worse ground a slightly better squad and a similar league position

The only thing he will get thrown at him that will stick will be the administration side and within a day or two a new manager will arrive, new signings will arrive and no damage will be done there and likewise locally any damage will be repaired as quickly as the celebrations last as he gets ran out of town

Of course as you rightly keep mentioning if JJM can buy the Padres at $80m and then sell at $800m then he must be doing something right but be careful with that one Jimmy Fawaz bought at £20m and sold 80% at £50m, has he done something right?
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Go back and have a look at exactly what 20m bought him; its a little different from what he is selling.
 
Surely the answer to Mark's question is that in addition to the £20m purchase price he has incurred £85m in running costs during his tenure so has lost £55m which his 20% remains hopeful of recovering?

The increase in the Padres from acquisition to sale was not solely linked to the manner in which JJM ran it but more driven to the change in the market between the two periods?
 
LyttleByLyttle - 12/1/2017 14:34

Surely the answer to Mark's question is that in addition to the £20m purchase price he has incurred £85m in running costs during his tenure so has lost £55m which his 20% remains hopeful of recovering?

The increase in the Padres from acquisition to sale was not solely linked to the manner in which JJM ran it but more driven to the change in the market between the two periods?
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Correct LBL. MLB franchises increased dramatically about the time Moores sold the Padres. He bought it for $80 million and sold it for $800. That is some increase in 18 years! There is no doubt that he significantly increased the franchise's value but not by 10 times.

 
LyttleByLyttle - 12/1/2017 22:36

Simplistically JJM would have had to have incurred $1,520,000 in losses to have achieved a like for like outcome as Fawaz.
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But in the context of second tier English football thats how it works

Anyway its pretty obvious I'm pulling Jimmys chain but no more than hes pulling mine trying to claim that the squad was better when Fawaz arrived than it is now

To suggest Fawaz has done well is ludicrous
To suggest its nothing more than market forces is ludicrous
To suggest you don't include the costs incurred is ludicrous

All as ludicrous as trying to claim Fawaz inherited the squad that finished the last game of the season prior, wouldn't you agree?






 
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