Mixed feelings

[ozzyten10]

We are in exactly the same position than when doughty gave up. I'd argue worse:

Sold captain in Jan window then and now.
Club for sale
Manager many don't want
Side devoid of confidence and no midfield
Signed up a bright prospect on long term deal osborn brereton

We did at least have leadership with frank Clark and a structure of arguably competent people supporting him.

If this deal isn't done we are absolutely in the shite.

 

[Jimmy Gordon]

It's a shame SOD had already left before Fawaz arrived

The partnership of Cotterill and SOD was working great - I think that was a partnership with potential

Having said that maybe Fawaz would have just sacked the pair of them together before finding the iconic one

 

[paplane]

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 14:25

It's a shame SOD had already left before Fawaz arrived

The partnership of Cotterill and SOD was working great - I think that was a partnership with potential

Having said that maybe Fawaz would have just sacked the pair of them together before finding the iconic one

Yep, tis.

It was.

He would.

 

[Jimmy Gordon]

trickynumber5 - 12/1/2017 14:06


Ah, I see.
I thought you'd asked which of our current squad were better than that squad, hence this list.

The 4-5 players you asked about building a squad around, is a different question.
To that I'd say Pereira, Britt, Worrall, Cash, Brereton. But that question wasn't a comparison. Not many of this lot I'd keep, given investment to improve.

Well we got crossed lines

Can't agree even half the names on your big list would get in that previous team

They might make the bench when they weren't injured that is

 

[Galaxy42]

Camp, Gunter, McCleary & Guedioura are the only players I would really be bothered about from that squad., possibly Chambers.

Do we have a definitive list of who we had from the last game of that season? Some of them we so bad I can't remember them.

 

[Galaxy42]

1st team squad from last game of that season. Forgot about Reid,

Cunningham
Chambers
Gunter
Lynch
McGugan
Reid
Guedioura
Majewski
McCleary
Blackstock
Smith
Wootton
Elokobi
Anderson
Moussi

 

[trickynumber5]

McGugan
Guedioura
McCleary
Elokobi
Moussi

With a proper good manager, this would have been a good base.

 

[Jimmy Gordon]

Reid, Blackstock (before his bad injury), Raddy, McGugan

Lynch got runner up in player of season that year - did well for us but Cotterill didn't rate him - thought he was too soft

Youngster wise we had Darlow, lascelles and Osborn coming through

On the bench that last game we had elokobi as well who had done well

 

[Jimmy Gordon]

Galaxy42 - 12/1/2017 14:43

1st team squad from last game of that season. Forgot about Reid,

Cunningham
Chambers
Gunter
Lynch
McGugan
Reid
Guedioura
Majewski
McCleary
Blackstock
Smith
Wootton
Elokobi
Anderson
Moussi

You've missed Camp

Darlow, lascelles Osborn emerging

We also had Maloney who went to derby I think

 

[Galaxy42]

Osborn wasn't emerging then, nobody had the 1st idea who he was 4 years ago, other than Nan, obviously. Don't think Darlow was either really.

Besides, you can't include players that came through after that without knowing who will come through from this side in2/3/4 years time.

Did say in my original post I would take Camp, but only because I struggle to judge goalkeepers, all the same to me.

Maloney went to Bristol City, it was Freeman that went to derby.

 

[paplane]

McCleary was bang average until the 6 months before he left.

 

[Nanpantan red]

paplane - 12/1/2017 15:31

McCleary was bang average until the 6 months before he left.

McLeary was messed around by Billy Davis which knocked his confidence. As Ian Botham once said, about a different sport I accept - "Class is permanent - form is temporary." I'm not saying that McLeary was class, he was just a good Championship player, but he clearly had - and still has - the ability. What he lacked was game time to give him confidence.

With very few exceptions it takes time to get used to a new standard of playing, either from non-league to us, as with Mcleary, or from club games to internationals. In recent times Tyler Walker lost his way - but not his ability. BD was quite pig-headed.

 

[paz1967]

paplane - 12/1/2017 13:59

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 12:50

Fook me paplane you reckon our current defence is better than that one (which I admit was only average)?

I would take any back 5 we've put out in the last 40 years ahead of what we have now with or without a manager

Get real mate!

I've got a problem at left back due to the Pinillos injury and Fox (generally!), but Hobbs, Mills, Manc & Lichaj - nothing wrong with them as individual players. What's wrong at the moment is that they're not organised. Those players in the Dougie team were solid last year. That's why I'm confident that Rowett can get us safe.

Its easy to organise a team when you have no ambition to win the game..

 

[Mark2310]

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 12:19

trickynumber5 - 12/1/2017 12:02

Got to say I'm with Mark there Jimmy.

On paper and when fit, this squad is superior.

Fawaz deserves a slice of the pie when we go up, then he'll probably do one, and between now and then he'll have no control. I'm quite happy with that situation.

Which ones of current team get in this team that beat portsmouth last game of season?

LINEUPS
1 L. Camp
16 C. Gunter (Gone)
4 L. Chambers (Gone)
33 J. Lynch 84' (Gone)
3 G. Cunningham (Gone)
11 A. Reid
28 R. Majewski
10 L. McGugan
22 A. Guédioura (Gone)
23 D. Blackstock 70' 89'
12 G. McCleary (Gone)

That's the team the estate put out last game of the season whilst the club was on its knees etc

Won that game 3-0 (well drilled by Cotterill and SOD)

Don't tell me that the current team is even close to that group

Take the rose tinted Fawaz glasses off

This squad is as shite as any I can remember

Its a nice little shift there Jimmy but Forest got took over in July and perhaps if he'd took over in April or May that might have been the team but as it happened in real life your team is as above when Fawaz actually arrived not your hypothetical date of the last game of the season

6 out of the 11 gone before Fawaz stepped foot in the club

Add to that Hill Wootton Elokobi Cunningham Higginbottom Anderson Smith and Freeman

So in total when Fawaz arrived the squad had lost 14 players from the end of the season 16 if you add Bamford and Morgan who left in January

I think we had about 10 squad members when he arrived and that included the likes of Greening Tudgay Miller Derbyshire and Findlay

It was a fooking shambles, doesn't make Fawaz any less the wa**er just because he has made moderate improvements on what was a fooking mess and now is a mess if that makes it any more palatable

 

[forestonourwayback]

paplane - 12/1/2017 12:59

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 12:50

Fook me paplane you reckon our current defence is better than that one (which I admit was only average)?

I would take any back 5 we've put out in the last 40 years ahead of what we have now with or without a manager

Get real mate!

:27:

I've got a problem at left back due to the Pinillos injury and Fox (generally!), but Hobbs, Mills, Manc & Lichaj - nothing wrong with them as individual players. What's wrong at the moment is that they're not organised. Those players in the Dougie team were solid last year. That's why I'm confident that Rowett can get us safe.

I'm with you on this one Paplane. The current four of Lichaj, Mills, Hobbs, Mancienne is more than decent, and better than in early 2012, but this season we have lacked consistency (of selection) and organisation. They have not been managed well.

Add to that, the Championship today is a far higher standard than 5 years ago, with so many clubs having parachute payments and investing so heavily in squads. In the Championship, if you stand still as a team, you actually go backwards!

 

[Mark2310]

forestonourwayback - 12/1/2017 16:15

paplane - 12/1/2017 12:59

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 12:50

Fook me paplane you reckon our current defence is better than that one (which I admit was only average)?

I would take any back 5 we've put out in the last 40 years ahead of what we have now with or without a manager

Get real mate!

:27:

I've got a problem at left back due to the Pinillos injury and Fox (generally!), but Hobbs, Mills, Manc & Lichaj - nothing wrong with them as individual players. What's wrong at the moment is that they're not organised. Those players in the Dougie team were solid last year. That's why I'm confident that Rowett can get us safe.

I'm with you on this one Paplane. The current four of Lichaj, Mills, Hobbs, Mancienne is more than decent, and better than in early 2012, but this season we have lacked consistency (of selection) and organisation. They have not been managed well.

Add to that, the Championship today is a far higher standard than 5 years ago, with so many clubs having parachute payments and investing so heavily in squads. In the Championship, if you stand still as a team, you actually go backwards!

As a quick overview of our squad, above average defence below average midfield average up top, under normal circumstances 8th on a good year 16th on a bad year is what you would expect from this lot.

The fact they are under performing is a complete turn off and lack of interest from the top which has now well and truly filtered down the last few months absolutely stinks of the Cotterill days, the catalyst to that years revival was SOD and the sale of Morgan and Bamford this time round the suggestion is that it will be Rowetts and money from new owners

I really do hope they go down the route of 2-3 make a difference loan signings rather than trying to nail long term prospects, a couple of key loanees keeps this squad safe especially when the dark clouds of no one giving a fook lifts and the club starts to be given some direction again

 

[Jimmy Gordon]

12 of the squad that played the first Fawaz season were already at the club (not counting Geddy)

End of the season we were far from the shambles we currently are. We had a strong management team and were strong on the pitch as well

It's inevitable that we were losing players end of that season as the estate were selling the club and not renewing contracts

Carrying out a communicated plan to sell the club

It was never down to the estate to build a squad for new owners

You want to call it a shambles but the squad Fawaz took over was short or players as a direct result of a planned sale

And the fact is even with our owner sadly passed away the estate and FC managing the club we were run far more professionally on and off the pitch than now

We ain't ending this season with 25 points from 16 games and 10 points clear of relegation UNLESS we get new owners

There is only one way this season is going if Fawaz stays in charge

This is a shambles

That season ended being a success based on the horrible circumstances

Shit situation, no money to invest due to selling the club, made worse by Doughtys death but managed professionally by FC and the estate and MA with difficult but correct decisons made at the right times to avoid relegation pre takeover

That's not a shambles. That's a bad scenario managed as well as could be expected

This season is a bad situation managed shambolically

 

[forestonourwayback]

Mark2310 - 12/1/2017 16:33

forestonourwayback - 12/1/2017 16:15

paplane - 12/1/2017 12:59

Jimmy Gordon - 12/1/2017 12:50

Fook me paplane you reckon our current defence is better than that one (which I admit was only average)?

I would take any back 5 we've put out in the last 40 years ahead of what we have now with or without a manager

Get real mate!

:27:

I've got a problem at left back due to the Pinillos injury and Fox (generally!), but Hobbs, Mills, Manc & Lichaj - nothing wrong with them as individual players. What's wrong at the moment is that they're not organised. Those players in the Dougie team were solid last year. That's why I'm confident that Rowett can get us safe.

I'm with you on this one Paplane. The current four of Lichaj, Mills, Hobbs, Mancienne is more than decent, and better than in early 2012, but this season we have lacked consistency (of selection) and organisation. They have not been managed well.

Add to that, the Championship today is a far higher standard than 5 years ago, with so many clubs having parachute payments and investing so heavily in squads. In the Championship, if you stand still as a team, you actually go backwards!

As a quick overview of our squad, above average defence below average midfield average up top, under normal circumstances 8th on a good year 16th on a bad year is what you would expect from this lot.

The fact they are under performing is a complete turn off and lack of interest from the top which has now well and truly filtered down the last few months absolutely stinks of the Cotterill days, the catalyst to that years revival was SOD and the sale of Morgan and Bamford this time round the suggestion is that it will be Rowetts and money from new owners

I really do hope they go down the route of 2-3 make a difference loan signings rather than trying to nail long term prospects, a couple of key loanees keeps this squad safe especially when the dark clouds of no one giving a fook lifts and the club starts to be given some direction again

Agreed :14:

 

[Woanz]

Calvin Plummer - 12/1/2017 09:37

Woanz - 12/1/2017 08:45

He won't be. Folk see the PL as this glorious chance to write off our debts all it will mean is celebrating reaching 12 points, shouting about champions of Europe & that a few players & their agents make a great deal of money.

It won't be end of our problems it'll be the start of a whole load of new ones.

One of your more perceptive posts...

No doubt I'll see it copied & pasted as your own work at a later date.

 

[LyttleByLyttle]

In the last 25 league games of that season under Cotterill we conceded 27 goals.

In the first 25 league games of this season we have conceded 45 goals.

Says a lot about Montanier in context of the discussion on this thread.