Millwall | Page 8 | Vital Football

Millwall

NorthernSoul said:
Then explain Rowetts record at Stoke last season. To suggest a manager taking over another team and automatically having an identical record is truly fairy tale imagination.

The same people wanting Rowett criticised Cook for playing Rowett style football, I don't understand the hypocrisy?
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Your post makes no sense.

Rowett had a win record of 31% at Stoke. His lowest at this level. Yet it is much better than Cooks. Last season he had just 28%. This it’s just 25%.

At Millwall, a team finishing 7 points below us, with a far inferior financial outlay close season, his win ratio is now 43%.

Cooks style of play was ineffective. Rowett can play a similar way and it is effective. It’s that simple. To argue we’d be no better off with a manager who has statistically a far better record is just utter bollocks.
 
Playing Rowett style football as you call it and winning games and/or climbing the league table suits Millwall and are coached to play that way.

Cook tried it with us and even fucked that up, hence the mess we are in, he cant even fathom out how to play kick and rush.
 
You do realise you have both just proved my point. Certain managers suit certain clubs and Rowett and Millwall are perfect fits.

Made in Wigan. A 31% win ratio with the team with by far the biggest budget in the league is absolutely terrible. Not much higher than Cooks ratio which he has been rightly criticised for.

He managed a Derby side who spent ridiculous amounts of money and failure get promoted was down to Rowetts negative tactics.

I don't get the logic of a manager wherever he goes will have an identical record at each club.

You have to have a manager in charge that plays a style that suits the squad of players there. Just imagine if Brentfords manager went to Millwall and tried playing high tempo attacking footballl with a Millwall squad with no pace and technical ability? They'd most likely finish rock bottom.
 
Aye, cause Stoke have had quite the turnaround since potting Rowett haven’t they? They’ve gone from midtable to relegation candidates and Rowett’s beaten them since. In fact not a single club has improved since Rowett left them. Derby have dropped back to mid table fodder. Birmingham have dropped to relegation threatened lower midtable at best.

Theres a reason why he keeps getting Championship jobs and Paul Cook will never manage at this level again once he leaves this club. No comparison between the two both on and off the training ground.
 
Stormin' Norman said:
Moonay's gone quiet, is the debate out of your league bro?

Nah, just disagreeing for the sake of it and trying to belittle folk is more your level.
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What would you like me to comment on Norm. From the recent input MiW's made (supporting the hiring of Rowett based on stats), I didn't feel compelled to contribute.

I can't argue against the logic of what (both KDZ and) MiW posted, but I still wouldn't fancy Rowett as a Manager. I've little to justify that view though (other than "a feeling", so I kept quiet.

As for belittling you (just you, not folk), well I'll stop when you do. Can't say fairer than that.
:yes:
 
Aye, because Stoke giving Rowett 2 windows to sign long ball players, before sacking him and bringing in a manager who plays high pressing attacking football was sheer lunacy. I believe had Stoke allowed Rowett to integrate his new style players they would have climbed the table.

Derby that have had their squad ripped apart since, got away with it last season due to multiple Premier League class loanees.

The same Birmingham side that have had serious financial problems since.
 
Made in Wigan said:
I’d rather deal in cold hard facts than your opinion (no offence intended). Rowett is a far more experienced and successful manager at this level than Cook, the statistics prove that. Since taking over a team (that is similar in size to ours with very similar records last season) mid season the statistics also show he is a far better manager - despite being handicapped by the fact he came in cold, with someone else’s squad was was assembled for far less money than our own. If you take off your anti Rowett glasses you may see your argument has no merit.
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The cold hard facts as you say are that Rowett has gained 9 points more than Cook for a side that you say is a similar size to ours over a comparable period. However the form table also shows that the new manager bubble has burst and their form is far inferior to ours for the last five or six games.

I want to improve not stand still.

Just because Cook has upset you doesn't mean that Rowett would be any better.

As I have said to KDZ we should revisit this nearer the end of the season to see whose argument stands the test.
 
Roy Race said:
Wow, never seen anybody so keen to defend an opposition manager yet find it so hard to praise their own team when they might deserve it.
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Not so much keen to defend an opposition manager, more a case of defending reality in the face of your categorically wrong assertion Rowett hasn't done a good job for Millwall.

You're post in not a counter arguement to the points made.
 
NorthernSoul said:
You do realise you have both just proved my point. Certain managers suit certain clubs and Rowett and Millwall are perfect fits.

Made in Wigan. A 31% win ratio with the team with by far the biggest budget in the league is absolutely terrible. Not much higher than Cooks ratio which he has been rightly criticised for.

He managed a Derby side who spent ridiculous amounts of money and failure get promoted was down to Rowetts negative tactics.

I don't get the logic of a manager wherever he goes will have an identical record at each club.

You have to have a manager in charge that plays a style that suits the squad of players there. Just imagine if Brentfords manager went to Millwall and tried playing high tempo attacking footballl with a Millwall squad with no pace and technical ability? They'd most likely finish rock bottom.
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And you’ve just proved my point about why Cook should be sacked. He spent over 14 months inflicting a system on players that didn't suit them. Despite this a manager more adept at that system would have achieved far better results with these players. Rowett would have and still would be a far better bet in charge than the clown we still have.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
The cold hard facts as you say are that Rowett has gained 9 points more than Cook for a side that you say is a similar size to ours over a comparable period. However the form table also shows that the new manager bubble has burst and their form is far inferior to ours for the last five or six games.

I want to improve not stand still.

Just because Cook has upset you doesn't mean that Rowett would be any better.

As I have said to KDZ we should revisit this nearer the end of the season to see whose argument stands the test.
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Lest us not forget Millwall finished 7 points worse off that us last season and we’ve spent far more on players since, so it all needs factoring into the equation.

Regardless of whether Cook has or hasn’t upset me (angry and infuriated would be more accurate) the statistics suggest Rowett would be better. It’s a simple as that.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Lest us not forget Millwall finished 7 points worse off that us last season and we’ve spent far more on players since, so it all needs factoring into the equation.

Regardless of whether Cook has or hasn’t upset me (angry and infuriated would be more accurate) the statistics suggest Rowett would be better. It’s a simple as that.
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In your opinion !

As to factoring anything in it wouldn't alter my view.

Rowetts record at Stoke speaks volumes, he got one more win out of his tenure than Cook got over the equivalent period with a far inferior squad. He is no better than what we have and I certainly wouldn't want to risk having him at the helm.

In my opinion it's as simple as that.

As I have said constantly, I want Cook gone, but we need to find someone better not someone with a similar record at this level.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
In your opinion !

As to factoring anything in it wouldn't alter my view.

Rowetts record at Stoke speaks volumes, he got one more win out of his tenure than Cook got over the equivalent period with a far inferior squad. He is no better than what we have and I certainly wouldn't want to risk having him at the helm.

In my opinion it's as simple as that.

As I have said constantly, I want Cook gone, but we need to find someone better not someone with a similar record at this level.
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His record isn’t similar. It’s far superior:

Birmingham. 40%
Derby. 43%
Stoke. 31%
Millwall. 43%

Cooks is 28% last season and 25% this.

He’s a far better manager at this level. His statistics at four different clubs prove that. As I said, no offence, but I’ll go with that over your fact deficient opinion.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
OK. so we take out all the bollocks about "what if" and "he was disadvantaged when he took over".

Lets deal in stark facts.

He is currently 9 points over his twenty odd games in charge better off than our current manager but is on a downward trajectory according to the form tables. We are on an upward trajectory according to the same form tables and if current form continues are likely to narrow the gap between the two.

I think at the moment we have done this one to death, however I reserve the right to return to this at a future date and offer you the same courtesy.

:cheers:
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To be fair to their trajectory they have played the top 3 in their last 6 (Leed, West Brom, Fulham) plus Preston so 4 of the top 6 - so i think it's not neceserrily a sign of a trend of drop off as much as it's a tougher run of fixtures. While our run included 2 of those but was undoubtedly not as tough.

There is no doubt our recent form is better, not just better but good over the last 6. But we had a very good run of 10 games when we first got promoted then it all collapsed for about 6 months and before we found the next run of 6 or so games at the end of last season. Then after the summer the terrible form returned until now. So while i hope we can keep up the current form, we've seen our good spells have not lasted long in the past and been followed with extended poor runs. I don't expect us to keep up this form for the remaining 12 games, but i'd be very pleased to be proven wrong.

I made my thoughts clear as have you and we'll just have to agree to disagree.
But all the data and debate is there for everyone to see, it's up to individuals to decide who is better of Cook and Rowett. I would love to be proven wrong as if i am it means we'll be staying up.
 
Made in Wigan said:
His record isn’t similar. It’s far superior:

Birmingham. 40%
Derby. 43%
Stoke. 31%
Millwall. 43%

Cooks is 28% last season and 25% this.

He’s a far better manager at this level. His statistics at four different clubs prove that. As I said, no offence, but I’ll go with that over your fact deficient opinion.
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Actually if you look up his career record compared to Rowett , Cook's is marginally better despite having managed some 200+ games more. 43.08% as opposed to 42.04%

So whose opinion is fact deficient, I think it's yours not mine

Edit: By the way I will concede that Rowett is the more experienced championship manager with more than double the amount of games Cook has had. 200- 80
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Actually if you look up his career record compared to Rowett , Cook's is marginally better despite having managed some 200+ games more. 43.08% as opposed to 42.04%

So whose opinion is fact deficient, I think it's yours not mine
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We’re talking about Championship level management. They are the pertinent facts in this discussion, not those involving games in the Irish pub league for example. Your argument has no credence.
 
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