Match Thread: Villa v West Ham under the Monday Night Lights | Page 17 | Vital Football

Match Thread: Villa v West Ham under the Monday Night Lights

Melon Donkey

Vital Football Legend
We are leaving Wesley alone on the pitch and expecting him to score by himself. That's a real concern. After 5 matches, I couldn't tell you what his strengths are because he has had so little of the ball. We need to play in a way that gives Wesley the best chance of scoring. Get the ball into the box earlier? Play through balls for him to run onto? Whatever it is, something needs to change.
Totally.

Wesley gets scraps and then gets slated.

Although that falling over/dive under minimal contact was fcuking embarrassing.

Bin Jota. Because he is absolutely no winger and looks like what he is , a championship player and bring in Luiz/ Marvelous combo pushing SJ further up with McGinn supporting
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
Totally.

Wesley gets scraps and then gets slated.

Although that falling over/dive under minimal contact was fcuking embarrassing.

Bin Jota. Because he is absolutely no winger and looks like what he is , a championship player and bring in Luiz/ Marvelous combo pushing SJ further up with McGinn supporting
I don't know what to make of Jota. He is way too slow to be a winger, too weak to be a midfielder, incredibly inconsistent and yet could win you the game. He might be more suited to attacking midfield trying to play those wizard balls into Wesley.
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
I don't know what to make of El Ghazi standing up to Mings. Fair play to Mings for calling him out on his poor tracking back. Fair play to El Ghazi for being brave enough to stand his ground but at the same time:

1. He's losing that fight every day of the week
2. He wasn't tracking back hard enough
3. A normal person would just put their hand up so what he thought he was achieving is beyond me.
 
I don't know what to make of El Ghazi standing up to Mings. Fair play to Mings for calling him out on his poor tracking back. Fair play to El Ghazi for being brave enough to stand his ground but at the same time:

1. He's losing that fight every day of the week
2. He wasn't tracking back hard enough
3. A normal person would just put their hand up so what he thought he was achieving is beyond me.
I love that they did a VAR check on it :lol:
 

Wicked Messenger

Vital Squad Member
The positives, only conceded one goal in the last three games. Not too far back we conceded goals like a sieve and that was in the Championship. Further forward we are not there yet.
Jack took a captain’s responsibility to make something happen, by the last 20 minutes probably tried too hard. McGinn had good moments during the match but nowhere near enough of them. I didn’t see much connection between Jack and SJM and unless the latter can get on the ball more often we’re going to struggle in the middle of the park unless additional support is brought in.
Jota struggled with the ball all evening and he and Anwar spent as much time defending as attacking. Not once did they get to the byline to pull a cross back, Jack did and Wesley should have scored from it. Wesley has nice feet at times but looks abysmal in the air, particularly for a big man. You can see us getting overrun away from home if we put that group out. Plenty of time yet and we can build from the strength we have at the back. I admire and totally support Dean’s emphasis on attack and he has plenty of options as he tries to get the balance right.
 
I think Mings should concentrate on his own game and if he needs to have a go at anyone have a fucking go with Taylor for needing a player to have to track back every single time.
El Ghazi is a winger not a fullback. Anyone think that if mings was left back he'd need to be covered by el Ghazi , i don't think so. he'd own that part of the pitch it's what good fullbacks do.
We've had so many shit lefty backs we've forgotten what a good one looks like
 

crimsondonkey

Vital 1st Team Regular
Not a bad game, but a disappointing and frustrating performance.

Here's the problems that are beginning to become themes across the few games we've seen so far -

1. We are playing two wingers, and neither of them are producing enough consistent threat to warrant being on the pitch. El Ghazi doesn't get the ball in the box, and Jota is a clever player more suited to being an inside forward than an actual winger (again, no crossing product).

2. Wesley is isolated. Like any striker he needs both a steady supply of chances and support around him in play to ensure that he's able to get involved properly and contribute to the game. Having El Ghazi as his nearest team mate when the ball goes up is not going to cut it. He's also a bit box shy from what I've seen - maybe because the balls he wants are not being played so he's not making the runs.

3. Jack is frequently in the wrong areas of the pitch to hurt the opposition. He has a lot of possession but a lot of it is in his own half and taking the ball off the back four and then ball carrying. He's trying too hard and more importantly I don't feel he trusts his team mates enough to let them do their jobs and take up his proper position which is to link between the MF and Wesley.

So here's what I would do about it if I were Deano -

A. Don't play a formation with 2 out and out wingers if we don't have them. Either go 4231 with Luiz and Marvelous as the 2, with SJM, JG and Jota and the 3. The width and crosses can them come form Freddie overlapping on the right and SJM on the left. This formation also facilitates playing Hourihane and getting his dead ball and shooting skills on the pitch (vs Jota).

B. In attacking possession the three need to be within 10 yards of Wesley at all times to help retain possession and give him the chance to get in the box. Wesley seems to prefer running onto things and movement with the ball to feet as against being a heading the ball monster, so play the ball like that to encourage precisely that kind of movement.

C. Now this is a tough one. I'm sure Deano already shows Jack the videos of when Villa look threatening - ie when they're playing with tempo and when Jack is in the final third running at the opposition defenders; and when they're not - with him taking the ball off Mings/ Engels. Somehow Deano has got to get Jack to trust his team mates, and they also have to be vocal and send him further up when he drifts back. Having energy and strength in possession to carry the ball forward is key to this which is why I'd have Luiz and Marvellous in the same MF and use their legs and athleticism to run things in that department and keep Jack forward and always with one eye on Wesley and trying to release him.

As a few others have said earlier, if you really want to play 2 out and out wingers then you need the quality of the personnel to enable you to do that and that would be the instruction to Jesus to go find them. What I don't think we can afford to do in the meantime is try to play a system that we don't have the players for. You're asking too much of them and their team mates like Jack to compensate for flawed tactical thinking.
 
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Wesley missed a great chance. Made a poor decision to shoot when something else was on.

But he gets fcuk all consistent service in my opinion.
Sounds like you're talking about Scott Hogan, that's all I ever read about him.
Sorry but a top striker has to make himself a few chances, you can't expect 2-yard tap ins.
So far I don't see a strikers instinct and I'm sure if that was Davis or Koj out there instead they'd be slated as nowhere near good enough.
This bloke is our record signing don't forget.
I did give Jordan Bowery more time than this as he was a cheap buy and Libor Kozak.
So I will give Wesley more time, which he will get simply because he's Brazillian and cost 22million (there's a song there somewhere)
 

DeanoVilla

One Bloody Number
I think there's a reality check that needs to be had with Wesley.

And that is £22 million doesn't actually buy you very much in terms of strikers these days.

If you compared him to Haller last night Haller looks miles ahead...but he cost £45 million so you'd expect him to.

Same with Joleinton at Newcastle.

The Villa policy of 'adding value' has been lauded on here as the right approach, but we need to understand that in general that means we won't be buying the finished article but a player with potential. The finished article would cost at least twice as much.

My biggest concern with Wesley though, is that I don't even see the potential. He doesn't look to have anything that Davis doesn't have.

I hope I'm wrong. I keep expecting him to get used the the English game and be more powerful and dominant but it never seems to happen. Maybe it will just take time.
 

gmvillan

The Shackles Are Off!
I think Mings should concentrate on his own game and if he needs to have a go at anyone have a fucking go with Taylor for needing a player to have to track back every single time.
El Ghazi is a winger not a fullback. Anyone think that if mings was left back he'd need to be covered by el Ghazi , i don't think so. he'd own that part of the pitch it's what good fullbacks do.
We've had so many shit lefty backs we've forgotten what a good one looks like
Ah yes, of course, the whole incident was Taylor’s fault.
 

zaijianforth

Vital Squad Member
Marvelous played very well for his first home Premiership game. I know a few of his passes were misplaced, but give him a couple of games to get match sharp and he will be the anchor we are looking for. Al Gahzi, not for me thank you.
Another great crowd tonight. I just wish people would come to watch the game instead of food and drink making you get up and down like a friggin yo yo.
 
I think there's a reality check that needs to be had with Wesley.

And that is £22 million doesn't actually buy you very much in terms of strikers these days.

If you compared him to Haller last night Haller looks miles ahead...but he cost £45 million so you'd expect him to.

Same with Joleinton at Newcastle.

The Villa policy of 'adding value' has been lauded on here as the right approach, but we need to understand that in general that means we won't be buying the finished article but a player with potential. The finished article would cost at least twice as much.

My biggest concern with Wesley though, is that I don't even see the potential. He doesn't look to have anything that Davis doesn't have.

I hope I'm wrong. I keep expecting him to get used the the English game and be more powerful and dominant but it never seems to happen. Maybe it will just take time.
I think you're spot on mate, we all want him to do well but I'm not seeing anything at all in him. Davis is actually better at holding the ball up and Koj is probably a better bet at creating a few for himself