Match Thread, Forest v Middlesboro, are we on the up? | Page 8 | Vital Football

Match Thread, Forest v Middlesboro, are we on the up?

I kind of get what you’re saying Will about Cafu. I almost feel like, given how unbelievably low our expectations were when he signed (extra body from Olympiacos we don’t need / who won’t play / with no pedigree), we’re collectively surprised he’s actually OK. But he’s no better than OK. He’s painfully slow and I’d be surprised if he got a goal all season.

Spot on.
 
It's another one of those scenarios where it's important not to get too carried away by one defeat or by an unbeaten run of 7 games.

Derby lost at home to Rotherham, but then beat Bournemouth - which just perfectly frames the inconsistency of the Championship.

The problem is that many fans like to pick on someone, whether that be Yates, Cafu, Taylor, Samba... etc.

As a team, we were poor last night and actually immature.

The discipline was notably very disappointing against a shrewd Warnock side, that will time waste, dive etc etc.

Taylor got booked again without need and could have got a second yellow, Sow is clumsy and was a shoe in for a booking - so we had to make a change (which CH did at Half time), Knocky (who's body language was very poor when he came on) could have got a straight red & Ribby, clearly fancied 3 games off - because he could have got a red earlier.

Yates probably out for a while - so, will Colback, Arter or Freeman be fit to return or do we play Mbe Soh in DCM?

Sammy back to his frustrating best, well worst - Christie can't beat the first man with a cross and Mighten was largely anonymous.

Inevitable changes for a tough away day at Swansea, of course I want us to win, but don't really care about the FA Cup - use the game to get minutes into some players and hopefully, get rid of others!

Time to take stock, recover, get the cup game played and then let's go again!!

Notwithstanding the unpredictability of the league, last nights performance was totally unacceptable.

There was no fight and no will to win from the first whistle to the last, and on top of that we were treated to a master class in crass stupidity.

The top job carried out by the Ground staff was certainly not appreciated by the players, some of whom clearly did not fancy playing in the wind and rain, which is a terrible, damning indictment on how soft some players are.

I remember Clough taking the gloves off of the players for one game and sending the team out in short sleeved shirts, I think it was in Berlin; maybe a dose of that would do some of them no harm, they certainly would not be stood around feigning interest.

Sow's performance last night was an all time low; even by his standards the recklessness he displayed was horrific, and the idiocy of giving away free kick after free kick in such dangerous positions makes you wonder if he actually gives a fuck.

The defending for both goals was not even worthy of being called schoolboy.

What in Gods name was Worrall thinking for the first goal?

He is in the middle of the box, with the right back behind him and he steps up and calls offside; he could not possibly have known where Christie was positioned, so he should not have been making the call; on top of that he stopped his run waiting for a whistle that never came.

You could ask questions about how the ball got into the box in the first place, and would be right in doing so because the defensive play out wide was non existent, but Worrall takes the lions share of the blame.

Worrall did not cover himself with glory with the second goal either; McKenna loses the ball in midfield and the defence is caught napping; Christie was nowhere to be seen and Worrall goes to ground needlessly.

Pathetic defending.

But no, its not the defending or the bad attitude which served us so badly last night; it was all the fault of young Yates.

All of the usual suspects who have had to keep quiet for the last five or six games are straight out of their boxes, giving him a good hammering the first time something goes wrong.

He had a poor game last night but along with McKenna there was nothing wrong with his attitude; even when having a nightmare game he gives his all.

Compare that with Riberio, Sow, Cafu, Ameobi, Taylor and Knockheart who clearly could not give a fuck last night but escape any form of serious criticism.

Be interesting to see who they turn on if Yates is out for any length of time
 
We finished a very respectable 7th last season (albeit we had a terrible end to that season). So what do we do; we sign 14 players! (OK we lost Cash) We have become a much worse team. What does that say about recruitment?

From last seasons squad 6 loans returned to their clubs and 9 players left - 4 first team, 4 bomb squad and Tyler Walker

14 players came in, 5 of whom are loans and we still do not have an overly large squad.

A good number of the incoming players - Knockheart, Freeman, Arter, Christie and McKenna should have been an improvement on what we had; only McKenna has performed to the expected standard
 
Notwithstanding the unpredictability of the league, last nights performance was totally unacceptable.

There was no fight and no will to win from the first whistle to the last, and on top of that we were treated to a master class in crass stupidity.

The top job carried out by the Ground staff was certainly not appreciated by the players, some of whom clearly did not fancy playing in the wind and rain, which is a terrible, damning indictment on how soft some players are.

I remember Clough taking the gloves off of the players for one game and sending the team out in short sleeved shirts, I think it was in Berlin; maybe a dose of that would do some of them no harm, they certainly would not be stood around feigning interest.

Sow's performance last night was an all time low; even by his standards the recklessness he displayed was horrific, and the idiocy of giving away free kick after free kick in such dangerous positions makes you wonder if he actually gives a fuck.

The defending for both goals was not even worthy of being called schoolboy.

What in Gods name was Worrall thinking for the first goal?

He is in the middle of the box, with the right back behind him and he steps up and calls offside; he could not possibly have known where Christie was positioned, so he should not have been making the call; on top of that he stopped his run waiting for a whistle that never came.

You could ask questions about how the ball got into the box in the first place, and would be right in doing so because the defensive play out wide was non existent, but Worrall takes the lions share of the blame.

Worrall did not cover himself with glory with the second goal either; McKenna loses the ball in midfield and the defence is caught napping; Christie was nowhere to be seen and Worrall goes to ground needlessly.

Pathetic defending.

But no, its not the defending or the bad attitude which served us so badly last night; it was all the fault of young Yates.

All of the usual suspects who have had to keep quiet for the last five or six games are straight out of their boxes, giving him a good hammering the first time something goes wrong.

He had a poor game last night but along with McKenna there was nothing wrong with his attitude; even when having a nightmare game he gives his all.

Compare that with Riberio, Sow, Cafu, Ameobi, Taylor and Knockheart who clearly could not give a fuck last night but escape any form of serious criticism.

Be interesting to see who they turn on if Yates is out for any length of time

Young Yates, lol...
Worrall is also born in 97, should he be immune to criticism or referred to as “Young Joe

The players you’ve mentioned share culpability in last nights performance.
I don’t know if you’re referring to me (don’t care either way) but I did flag both positive and negative aspects to Yates’ game.

The garibaldi red podcast largely followed what some posters have discussed re Yates.
He’s whole hearted, honest, hard working...he grafts.
What he isn’t is comfortable enough on the ball to control the game in centre mid, when coming up against teams who press him.

Its not his fault, he just doesn’t have the technique nor control to make that position his own.
The query is, whether he has enough against the poorer teams...
 
Notwithstanding the unpredictability of the league, last nights performance was totally unacceptable.

There was no fight and no will to win from the first whistle to the last, and on top of that we were treated to a master class in crass stupidity.

The top job carried out by the Ground staff was certainly not appreciated by the players, some of whom clearly did not fancy playing in the wind and rain, which is a terrible, damning indictment on how soft some players are.

I remember Clough taking the gloves off of the players for one game and sending the team out in short sleeved shirts, I think it was in Berlin; maybe a dose of that would do some of them no harm, they certainly would not be stood around feigning interest.

Sow's performance last night was an all time low; even by his standards the recklessness he displayed was horrific, and the idiocy of giving away free kick after free kick in such dangerous positions makes you wonder if he actually gives a fuck.

The defending for both goals was not even worthy of being called schoolboy.

What in Gods name was Worrall thinking for the first goal?

He is in the middle of the box, with the right back behind him and he steps up and calls offside; he could not possibly have known where Christie was positioned, so he should not have been making the call; on top of that he stopped his run waiting for a whistle that never came.

You could ask questions about how the ball got into the box in the first place, and would be right in doing so because the defensive play out wide was non existent, but Worrall takes the lions share of the blame.

Worrall did not cover himself with glory with the second goal either; McKenna loses the ball in midfield and the defence is caught napping; Christie was nowhere to be seen and Worrall goes to ground needlessly.

Pathetic defending.

But no, its not the defending or the bad attitude which served us so badly last night; it was all the fault of young Yates.

All of the usual suspects who have had to keep quiet for the last five or six games are straight out of their boxes, giving him a good hammering the first time something goes wrong.

He had a poor game last night but along with McKenna there was nothing wrong with his attitude; even when having a nightmare game he gives his all.

Compare that with Riberio, Sow, Cafu, Ameobi, Taylor and Knockheart who clearly could not give a fuck last night but escape any form of serious criticism.

Be interesting to see who they turn on if Yates is out for any length of time
Absolutely spot on, how on earth much are we paying Knockhart & Fulham for him to sit on the bench for 2/3 of most games, come on, run around like a headless chicken before getting booked or sent off.
The desire and discipline apart from a couple of exceptions were missing completely last night, as you say unacceptable. Just hope Yates is not going to be out for too long as the team will worse without him although hopefully his critics will see what he brings to the team better when he's not in it
 
Notwithstanding the unpredictability of the league, last nights performance was totally unacceptable.

There was no fight and no will to win from the first whistle to the last, and on top of that we were treated to a master class in crass stupidity.

The top job carried out by the Ground staff was certainly not appreciated by the players, some of whom clearly did not fancy playing in the wind and rain, which is a terrible, damning indictment on how soft some players are.

I remember Clough taking the gloves off of the players for one game and sending the team out in short sleeved shirts, I think it was in Berlin; maybe a dose of that would do some of them no harm, they certainly would not be stood around feigning interest.

Sow's performance last night was an all time low; even by his standards the recklessness he displayed was horrific, and the idiocy of giving away free kick after free kick in such dangerous positions makes you wonder if he actually gives a fuck.

The defending for both goals was not even worthy of being called schoolboy.

What in Gods name was Worrall thinking for the first goal?

He is in the middle of the box, with the right back behind him and he steps up and calls offside; he could not possibly have known where Christie was positioned, so he should not have been making the call; on top of that he stopped his run waiting for a whistle that never came.

You could ask questions about how the ball got into the box in the first place, and would be right in doing so because the defensive play out wide was non existent, but Worrall takes the lions share of the blame.

Worrall did not cover himself with glory with the second goal either; McKenna loses the ball in midfield and the defence is caught napping; Christie was nowhere to be seen and Worrall goes to ground needlessly.

Pathetic defending.

But no, its not the defending or the bad attitude which served us so badly last night; it was all the fault of young Yates.

All of the usual suspects who have had to keep quiet for the last five or six games are straight out of their boxes, giving him a good hammering the first time something goes wrong.

He had a poor game last night but along with McKenna there was nothing wrong with his attitude; even when having a nightmare game he gives his all.

Compare that with Riberio, Sow, Cafu, Ameobi, Taylor and Knockheart who clearly could not give a fuck last night but escape any form of serious criticism.

Be interesting to see who they turn on if Yates is out for any length of time

Compare that with Riberio, Sow, Cafu, Ameobi, Taylor and Knockheart who clearly could not give a fuck last night but escape any form of serious criticism.

Agree - but as a team, I thought we were very poor, old manned by a canny Boro side & Manager.

Knocky really shocked me at how disinterested he looked - when, you'd think he'd be scrapping to earn a start! He could have been sent off - one of several in that category.

There is no magic wand, Hughton will have to play with the hand he's been dealt but, the departures of some players are nailed on this summer - earlier if we get the chance!
 
Young Yates, lol...
Worrall is also born in 97, should he be immune to criticism or referred to as “Young Joe

The players you’ve mentioned share culpability in last nights performance.
I don’t know if you’re referring to me (don’t care either way) but I did flag both positive and negative aspects to Yates’ game.

The garibaldi red podcast largely followed what some posters have discussed re Yates.
He’s whole hearted, honest, hard working...he grafts.
What he isn’t is comfortable enough on the ball to control the game in centre mid, when coming up against teams who press him.

Its not his fault, he just doesn’t have the technique nor control to make that position his own.
The query is, whether he has enough against the poorer teams...

That's not necessarily a huge problem when partnered with a midfielder where they compliment each other.

I've been critical of his lack of pace as well as composure/distribution, but he's a grafter and he will work on that and improve - given time.

Same with Worrall - he's in the bizarre position of being the senior centre half, he's also dealing with EPL interest - he was below par, but never lacks effort.

The real disappointment is how many failed to put a shift in, coupled with the indiscipline.

Hughton was visibly angry.
 
Seen that Riberio red again can see why he got it but it looks like Brit bites his back, they should be getting the fa to look at it.

Hope CH had them in first pop and is tearing strips off them, the lack of fight was not acceptable which is odd considering they played so well against a Millwall side that are fairly similar in style and shithousery.
 
That's not necessarily a huge problem when partnered with a midfielder where they compliment each other.

I've been critical of his lack of pace as well as composure/distribution, but he's a grafter and he will work on that and improve - given time.

Same with Worrall - he's in the bizarre position of being the senior centre half, he's also dealing with EPL interest - he was below par, but never lacks effort.

The real disappointment is how many failed to put a shift in, coupled with the indiscipline.

Hughton was visibly angry.

Good cos thats how i felt. We were poor all over the park, almost like the milwall result made them think they can coast. We weren't old manned, we never showed up and its that which is unacceptable.

This is perhaps where we are undone by so many loans- we aint going anywhere so for too many of em there is nothing to play for.

Must be tough for the players who do give a shit.
 
Good cos thats how i felt. We were poor all over the park, almost like the milwall result made them think they can coast. We weren't old manned, we never showed up and its that which is unacceptable.

This is perhaps where we are undone by so many loans- we aint going anywhere so for too many of em there is nothing to play for.

Must be tough for the players who do give a shit.

How many loanees started last night?
 
Young Yates, lol...
Worrall is also born in 97, should he be immune to criticism or referred to as “Young Joe

The players you’ve mentioned share culpability in last nights performance.
I don’t know if you’re referring to me (don’t care either way) but I did flag both positive and negative aspects to Yates’ game.

The garibaldi red podcast largely followed what some posters have discussed re Yates.
He’s whole hearted, honest, hard working...he grafts.
What he isn’t is comfortable enough on the ball to control the game in centre mid, when coming up against teams who press him.

Its not his fault, he just doesn’t have the technique nor control to make that position his own.
The query is, whether he has enough against the poorer teams...

I was not referring to you specifically; it was a remark aimed at ALL of those who have kept their heads down waiting for him to fuck up, and he did have a poor game by his standards.

I really cannot see what the point is in criticising a player for perceived failures or expecting him to do things that he is not there to do.

Yates is not in the side to control the game; he is there to win the ball and pass it to a red shirt.

His remit is exactly the same as McGovern's was all those years ago, and there were plenty of experts in the stands in those days who criticised his every move and thought they knew better than Clough.

It would help if he had players around him who have contrasting qualities, to add some balance to the midfield, but we just don't have them.

Sow is an accident waiting to happen, Arter should have been a good foil for Yates but he does not seem bothered.

We need to fuck Sow off and get a player in there to compliment Yates and its not like there are not any available: Hourihane is available on loan, Mowatt can leave for 1m, Pearson is available at a cut price deal from Preston and you can be sure there will be others
 
Good cos thats how i felt. We were poor all over the park, almost like the milwall result made them think they can coast. We weren't old manned, we never showed up and its that which is unacceptable.

This is perhaps where we are undone by so many loans- we aint going anywhere so for too many of em there is nothing to play for.

Must be tough for the players who do give a shit.

Sadly - we were old manned.

They used every ounce of experience & gamesmanship, went down at every opportunity, buying fouls and conning the ref (no complaints - it's part of the game) - we just lacked the nous to deal with it, repeatedly falling for the age old tricks of a well schooled Warnock side.

It could be argued they were fresher, after their covid lay off - but, we started way too slowly and as soon as they went in front, pretty much game over.

We had to take Sow off at Half Time, before he was sent off for repeated clumsy tackles - that then changed the formation/tactics and they took advantage.

It's one game, we have the chance to start another unbeaten run because this league will continue to yield inconsistent results.
 
= 1 (Christie).

Cafu isn't a loan, short term permanent deal - Knockeart is loan and was very disappointing, given the circumstances (loan extended, been on the bench etc)

If that is the case regarding Cafu we had two loan players in last nights squad - Christie and Knockheart with Freeman being injured.

We can sign up to 8 loans but only include 5 in any one match day squad
 
I was not referring to you specifically; it was a remark aimed at ALL of those who have kept their heads down waiting for him to fuck up, and he did have a poor game by his standards.

I really cannot see what the point is in criticising a player for perceived failures or expecting him to do things that he is not there to do.

Yates is not in the side to control the game; he is there to win the ball and pass it to a red shirt.

His remit is exactly the same as McGovern's was all those years ago, and there were plenty of experts in the stands in those days who criticised his every move and thought they knew better than Clough.

It would help if he had players around him who have contrasting qualities, to add some balance to the midfield, but we just don't have them.

Sow is an accident waiting to happen, Arter should have been a good foil for Yates but he does not seem bothered.

We need to fuck Sow off and get a player in there to compliment Yates and its not like there are not any available: Hourihane is available on loan, Mowatt can leave for 1m, Pearson is available at a cut price deal from Preston and you can be sure there will be others

Sow is out of contract this summer, on his day he is very effective but anyone with a brain will love to play against him, guaranteed card - I would not extend the contract (unless the clause has been reached) - as he is injury prone to add to being a card magnet!

Arter may well come good - thought Hourihane has just signed for Swansea.

Colback close to a return & hopefully, Freeman will realise his potential.

Mowatt = yes!

At present, I'd even take Lansbury on a short term loan!
 
If that is the case regarding Cafu we had two loan players in last nights squad - Christie and Knockheart with Freeman being injured.

We can sign up to 8 loans but only include 5 in any one match day squad

I may have it the wrong way around, I thought Guerrero is a loan & Cafu a permanent deal - both from Oly, so who knows!?
 
Probably right - I don't think Cafu is as bad as some like to make out - just noted that he's only 28 in February.

Neil Harris sacked by Cardiff - so, any loan for Murphy will delayed until new manager in place.
 
Sow is out of contract this summer, on his day he is very effective but anyone with a brain will love to play against him, guaranteed card - I would not extend the contract (unless the clause has been reached) - as he is injury prone to add to being a card magnet!

Arter may well come good - thought Hourihane has just signed for Swansea.

Colback close to a return & hopefully, Freeman will realise his potential.

Mowatt = yes!

At present, I'd even take Lansbury on a short term loan!


In his time at the Club Sow has played 39 games during which he has been booked 15 times; Out of the 70 League games played during his time at the Club he has missed 29 of them through injury.

I think we should be expecting more than that kind of contribution.

Has Hourihane definitely gone to Swansea?

I know they were interested; he would have been a good signing.

I wouldnt be bothered about Lansbury; he has had us over too many times in the past
 
In his time at the Club Sow has played 39 games during which he has been booked 15 times; Out of the 70 League games played during his time at the Club he has missed 29 of them through injury.

I think we should be expecting more than that kind of contribution.

Has Hourihane definitely gone to Swansea?

I know they were interested; he would have been a good signing.

I wouldnt be bothered about Lansbury; he has had us over too many times in the past

Hourihane has gone to Swansea.

Sow is 32 this year, but as free transfers go - he hasn't been that bad, we just need better - but, all clubs say that and we're all fighting for scraps in the bargain bins.