Managerial Changes In League One | Page 5 | Vital Football

Managerial Changes In League One

Casperimp said:
Sexism, Racism and anything to with rights or all this stuff will only be gone when it isn't even mentioned anymore.

Does it matter if somebody is black, white, male, female, transgender, bisexual, homosexual, martian or some other celestial being. Does it matter who the first black manager was the first woman manager? No it doesn't! The media continue to add fuel to the debate and polarise the morons on both sides by making it an issue all the time.

Judge someone by the person they are and the ability they have to do the job not who they sleep with or the colour of their skin or the gender they are. Only when it stops getting mentioned in reports will we know that the problems have been put largely to bed.

Personally I take people as I find them.
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‘ Black lives matter’ just to stir the pot.
 
Emma Hayes would be a disaster at Wimbledon. Not because she’s female but lower league managers rely on their own personal contacts and their knowledge of lower league football knowing what players they can coach to their particular style. MApp is a great coach but he couldn’t prove it with the squad he inherited, it was his knowledge and personal contacts that found the players he required.
I very much doubt Emma has many contacts and knowledge of League One type players.
 
Brendan Bradley said:
Mark Sampson was the England Women's team manager, so technically a more important job than manager of Chelsea. He's currently Assistant Manager of Stevenage.

So that should enable us to gauge the relative standard, as it's not tainted by any issues regarding sexism.

And of course, there's Phil Neville............
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Well, Stevenage were crap when he went there, should have been relegated and are still crap now. So quite what that tells us about any comparisons I don't know. Probably that it's a less difficult job to take a team to third in the women's world cup than it is to drag Stevenage out of the re-election zone in 12 months. Although he did have to work with that idiot Maamria for a while.
 
Bucksimp said:
quite what that tells us about any comparisons I don't know.
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Well, I'd say it tells us that an ex-England women's team manager is more likely to be looking at some sort of coaching position in the lower reaches of L2 than turning their nose up at AFCW.

And though what @Red Wimp says may reflect many of our thoughts about McLaren, he's never had to take a job lower than the Championship.
 
Brendan Bradley said:
Well, I'd say it tells us that an ex-England women's team manager is more likely to be looking at some sort of coaching position in the lower reaches of L2 than turning their nose up at AFCW.

And though what @Red Wimp says may reflect many of our thoughts about McLaren, he's never had to take a job lower than the Championship.
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Ah yes I'm with you now!
 
tinnionsrightfoot said:
FFS: Can we just stick to football, because this is the greatest load of bollocks I've heard in a long while. "I heard someone got arrested the other day for saying MANpower at work". Where did you hear that? That's the kind of bollocks that circulates on social media and eventually leads to cretins storming parliaments. If you don't believe me, look over the pond.

And as for Captain Tom... the bloke was 100. It's not like he gave his life in the trenches He didn't die so that you can circulate scurrilous rumours. He didn't die for anything.

Let's just stick to footy.
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Whoooooosh!
 
Casperimp said:
Sexism, Racism and anything to with rights or all this stuff will only be gone when it isn't even mentioned anymore.

Does it matter if somebody is black, white, male, female, transgender, bisexual, homosexual, martian or some other celestial being. Does it matter who the first black manager was the first woman manager? No it doesn't! The media continue to add fuel to the debate and polarise the morons on both sides by making it an issue all the time.

Judge someone by the person they are and the ability they have to do the job not who they sleep with or the colour of their skin or the gender they are. Only when it stops getting mentioned in reports will we know that the problems have been put largely to bed.

Personally I take people as I find them.
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The problem is that there exists in society a huge amount of bias and discrimination against many groups. You seem to be advocating just ignoring it and hoping that things will naturally sort themselves out to the extent that in a few years we will all be holding hands and singing Kumbaya.

That, I think, is a view that can only be held by a privileged, white, heterosexual male living in a western country.
 
I'm enjoying this conversation and I think the ability for fans and those with a love of the game to speak about these issues is important. Privilege, identity, historical discrimination, are all messy and difficult subjects. But like gijsbert_bos says we can't pretend they don't exist.

I think the women's game should be supported and the players be given opportunities. Regarding the Hayes interview, I think her comments intersect with some of the existing inequities prevalent in the mens game and epitomized by the four tier PL thru L2 structure.

At some point we might even discuss the ability of the women's game to support themselves financially, as mens teams are expected to do so. But that gets even more complicated.

These types of conversations are what pubs are made for.
 
LA_Imp said:
I'm enjoying this conversation and I think the ability for fans and those with a love of the game to speak about these issues is important. Privilege, identity, historical discrimination, are all messy and difficult subjects. But like gijsbert_bos says we can't pretend they don't exist.

I think the women's game should be supported and the players be given opportunities. Regarding the Hayes interview, I think her comments intersect with some of the existing inequities prevalent in the mens game and epitomized by the four tier PL thru L2 structure.

At some point we might even discuss the ability of the women's game to support themselves financially, as mens teams are expected to do so. But that gets even more complicated.

These types of conversations are what pubs are made for.
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Goddamn, I miss pubs.
 
Bucksimp said:
Well, Stevenage were crap when he went there, should have been relegated and are still crap now. So quite what that tells us about any comparisons I don't know. Probably that it's a less difficult job to take a team to third in the women's world cup than it is to drag Stevenage out of the re-election zone in 12 months. Although he did have to work with that idiot Maamria for a while.
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Talking of Maamria; his last gig before going to Burton as assistant manager was at Oldham. Since Paul Dickov finished his nearly 3 year spell as manager in February 2013, Oldham have had 16 managers. That is an average of more than two a season. Lee Johnson (18/03/13 - 25/02/15) was their last manager to last over 12 months. Just in case you think I am picking my years to make a point, the problems are more deep rooted than that. From 1970 until 1994 Oldham only had two managers, Jimmy Frizzel and Joe Royle. In the 26 years since then, they have had 31, including John Sheridan, who has been manager on 4 separate occassions.
 
gijsbert_bos said:
The problem is that there exists in society a huge amount of bias and discrimination against many groups. You seem to be advocating just ignoring it and hoping that things will naturally sort themselves out to the extent that in a few years we will all be holding hands and singing Kumbaya.

That, I think, is a view that can only be held by a privileged, white, heterosexual male living in a western country.
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This is a good post. We can only say it doesn’t matter about the person’s characteristics when there is real, or at least much more, equality which we don’t have.

Look what awful thing happened to the first gay footballer in England and look how we haven’t had any more publicly out footballers since then. It’s disgraceful that people don’t feel more comfortable to be themselves because of the needless hate and aggression they’d receive from the public.

Now imagine if there was a transgender manager in English professional football. It would absolutely be something to be celebrated but it’s so sad that you know the reaction and often it’s from narrow-minded people who have never even spoken to someone that is transgender.
 
Just to throw an observation at the women in sport conversation. I would argue that the two sports where men and women are most often regarded on nearly equal basis are tennis and athletics. The one thing they have in common is that the TV audience watches them compete at the same events as men do (for tennis, I am talking about the 4 Majors not the tours).

There are other sports that do the same, but tend to have a lower profile e.g. equestrian events, swimming, diving, gymnastics and bowling.

For me, (and the same applies to disabled sport) while sports are operated independently, they will always be viewed independently. Perhaps there is an argument for running simultaneous mens' and womens' competitions in other sports.
 
Casperimp said:
Sexism, Racism and anything to with rights or all this stuff will only be gone when it isn't even mentioned anymore.

Does it matter if somebody is black, white, male, female, transgender, bisexual, homosexual, martian or some other celestial being. Does it matter who the first black manager was the first woman manager? No it doesn't! The media continue to add fuel to the debate and polarise the morons on both sides by making it an issue all the time.

Judge someone by the person they are and the ability they have to do the job not who they sleep with or the colour of their skin or the gender they are. Only when it stops getting mentioned in reports will we know that the problems have been put largely to bed.

Personally I take people as I find them.
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I think there is a lot to agree with here. However, I think it is a place we should want to end up as a society rather than an approach to get us there.

We have to be aware of discrimination in order to eliminate it. Groups or individuals fighting for the rights of women, BAME, LBGT, the disabled etc. are doing so because they feel they need to not only fight for often basic equal opportunities that they see as denied them, but also to raise awareness among people like me (white, male, heterosexual) who may not have experienced discrimination but who often practice it either wittingly or unwittingly.

One area that white, male, heterosexual and fully able people might experience discrimination is ageism. In future years we may find ourselves overlooked for promotion or denied employment in favour of some young peppy thing that looks better but may not be better qualified and certainly won't have the experience. In those circumstances I'm sure we may be more inclined to "fight for our rights" and "raise awareness". Then we may better understand what faces women, black people, and disabled people, etc. on a day-to-day basis.

As a final thought, I'm personally interested in who the first black manager was etc. because I'm very interested in social history and it helps us understand how we got here from there. For that reason I will also at some point binge watch the highly rated 'It's a Sin'. You're totally right about media polarising things (not just in this area, witness the totally manufactured 'culture wars'), but that's how they roll!
 
Impartiality said:
Where do we all think the Chelsea Ladies would slot into the football pyramid?
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I really wanted to answer by saying ‘Making the tea’....but I thought better of it as too many would fail to see the whoosh.

In reality, I think probably Step 4 or 5 non league. ie Northern Premier League Div 1. I know plenty of people in the game at or around that level who think similarly including some who have or are involved the women’s game.
However the physicality of the mans game will always count for a lot which makes the comparison a far from exact science.
Someone earlier in the thread made the comment about Ollie Palmer up against female defenders. Matt Rhead too springs to mind. However, Brennan Johnson, Tyler Walker, Lee Angol, Ben Hutchinson I could go on would have a field day against a top flight women’s side. Okay maybe not BH....another poor attempt at humour.
For the record, I have watched a few women’s games over the years and have generally enjoyed them and am not anti women’s game, I just feel the standard is not as high.
 
S6Ian said:
I really wanted to answer by saying ‘Making the tea’....but I thought better of it as too many would fail to see the whoosh.

In reality, I think probably Step 4 or 5 non league. ie Northern Premier League Div 1. I know plenty of people in the game at or around that level who think similarly including some who have or are involved the women’s game.
However the physicality of the mans game will always count for a lot which makes the comparison a far from exact science.
Someone earlier in the thread made the comment about Ollie Palmer up against female defenders. Matt Rhead too springs to mind. However, Brennan Johnson, Tyler Walker, Lee Angol, Ben Hutchinson I could go on would have a field day against a top flight women’s side. Okay maybe not BH....another poor attempt at humour.
For the record, I have watched a few women’s games over the years and have generally enjoyed them and am not anti women’s game, I just feel the standard is not as high.
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I agree that the standard is lower. One reason in the U.K. for such a difference is that the FA banned women’s football between 1921 to 1971. Additionally, only in 2018 did all WSL (top division in England) clubs become professional to focus solely on football.

Of course the standard is lower when you look at these facts. The women’s game is nowhere near as developed because it’s not been given the opportunity to grow.

It is drastically growing in popularity, especially with young girls and also families as you don’t get the toxic culture often seen at a men’s game.

S6Ian, I am not saying you have but what do people get from slagging off the women’s game? It’s similar to when a Premier League fan slags off Lincoln because we’re bad in comparison to their multi-millionaire footballers. It’s pointless and the opposite of good banter.
 
Imp13 said:
I agree that the standard is lower. One reason in the U.K. for such a difference is that the FA banned women’s football between 1921 to 1971. Additionally, only in 2018 did all WSL (top division in England) clubs become professional to focus solely on football.

Of course the standard is lower when you look at these facts. The women’s game is nowhere near as developed because it’s not been given the opportunity to grow.

It is drastically growing in popularity, especially with young girls and also families as you don’t get the toxic culture often seen at a men’s game.

S6Ian, I am not saying you have but what do people get from slagging off the women’s game? It’s similar to when a Premier League fan slags off Lincoln because we’re bad in comparison to their multi-millionaire footballers. It’s pointless and the opposite of good banter.
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The FA may have banned it, but it was still played informally. My aunt Barbara (on my dad's side) played in goal for a women's team in the 1950s.
 
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